U.S. Politics, 16

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Of course not every dissenter is being racist. Suggesting that would be almost as absurd as suggesting that there is no racism at all in the right's reaction to Obama as President.

Actually, since we're all automatons incapable for thinking for ourselves, and just repeating the talking points issued to us, I think it has to be either all or nothing in the racism department.

[Cuellar]

At this point I'm going to play devil's advocate (or Jesus' advocate as one might say) and play the role of teabagging Republican. I got some free time at work, and lively debate is what I need to keep awake...

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Wow Obama has some gall...

“Yes, Obama called Eagle owner Jeffrey Lurie to praise the Eagles for giving Vick a chance. Said too many prisoners never get fair 2d chance.”

Hundreds of thousands of non-violent people sit in Obama's prisons, for the non-crime of using cannabis, of which Obama is admittedly guilty. Any of those people are far more worthy than millionaire football players, but apparently they are not worth the president's time. Fuck that guy.

[Cuellar]

Such a dishonest way to frame the obstructionism and blatant racism that was the modus operandi of the GOP during the last 2 years. Moreover, it isn't so much that they're opposing bad policies but rather doubling down hard on the bad policies and voodoo trickled down economic shennannigans of the previous administration which led to the problems in the first place.

One could argue that dissenting is how Republicans were able to regain control of the house. In fact, one could argue that losing the battle (progress on a few bills) allowed Republicans to push for ultimate victory. Don't the ends justify the means? Lets not forget it was FDR who dropped 2 atomic bombs on civilian populations in order to win the war. If at worst the fillibuster causes the recession to extend for another 6 months, it allows republicans to win and then champion the pro-business policies that will allow us to exit the recession.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

http://www.norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Crimes_of_Indiscretion.pdf

[The Progressive]

Obama's prisons?

How many people are in federal prison for nothing more than using pot? I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm genuinely curious.

Not that many:

http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/it-is-a-myth-that-small-time-marijuana-users-are-crowding-our-prisons

According to the most recent survey of inmates in state and federal correctional facilities, only 0.7% of those in state prison are there for marijuana possession. And for first time offenders that number drops to 0.3% (U.S. Department of Justice 2000).

Of the 7,401 marijuana offenders in federal prison in 2002, only 191 of them were there for simple possession (U.S. Sentencing Commission 2002). Federal marijuana offenders served an average of 33 months in prison, the lowest of any other drug (U.S. Sentencing Commission 2002). Additionally, the median amount of marijuana for those convicted of marijuana possession is 115 pounds -- or 156,000 marijuana cigarettes (U.S. Department of Justice 2000). The U.S. government convicted only 27 federal marijuana offenders (possession and trafficking) having less than 5,000 grams of marijuana, with an average of 3,906 grams -- about 12,000 joints (U.S. Sentencing Commission 2002).

Groundbreaking work by Caulkins and Sevigny (2005) confirm the case that mainly only federal government sources had thoroughly presented before. They analyzed data from the Survey of Inmates in Federal and Correctional Facilities and found that the “number of marijuana users in prison for their use is perhaps 800-2,300 individuals or on the order of 0.1-0.2% of all prison inmates,” (Caulkins and Sevigny 2005) making it consistent with prior analysis released by the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP 2005). They estimated that expected time served in prison per year of use for marijuana was a miniscule .04 days.

[alguien]

Actually, since we're all automatons incapable for thinking for ourselves, and just repeating the talking points issued to us, I think it has to be either all or nothing in the racism department.

Well, only a Sith deals in absolutes...

;)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Alguien,

I always wondered if Lucas was being deliberatly ironic with that self contradicting statement.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

It ought not to be, however, Obama being the president, has to power to turn them all loose at his whim. I don't believe presidential pardons are subject to review.

[awesome possum]

Haven't you heard? Dissent is the ultimate form of racism. Quite a switch from what we told during the last Administration, eh?

Oh, you mean when dissenters were labeled as un-American and pro-terrorist? :rolleyes:

Wow Obama has some gall...

Hundreds of thousands of non-violent people sit in Obama's prisons, for the non-crime of using cannabis, of which Obama is admittedly guilty. Any of those people are far more worthy than millionaire football players, but apparently they are not worth the president's time. Fuck that guy.

Actually, Obama called the owner of the Eagles to talk about the Linc going green, or something like that. Which you'd know if you read an actual article about it rather than cherry-picking factually incorrect quotes.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Actually, Obama called the owner of the Eagles to talk about the Linc going green, or something like that. Which you'd know if you read an actual article about it rather than cherry-picking factually incorrect quotes.

Yes, I know. That's what I fucking said. Which you'd know if you read my post instead of doing whatever it is you did to come to the conclusion that I said anything else.

[awesome possum]

Yes, I know. That's what I fucking said. Which you'd know if you read my post instead of doing whatever it is you did to come to the conclusion that I said anything else.

No, it's not. The quote you used, without using a link as backup, suggested that Obama called the Eagles president strictly to praise him for giving Vick a job. You then proceeded to take a shit on Obama for doing so.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Just for you dude, the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/27/AR2010122704579.html?hpid=topnews

What does other parts of the conversation have to do with the fact that Obama has granted a total of 9 pardons in his entire tenure and the blatant hypocrisy embodied in the statement?

[The Progressive]

It ought not to be, however, Obama being the president, has to power to turn them all loose at his whim. I don't believe presidential pardons are subject to review.

The data doesn't support your argument that "hundreds of thousands" people are incarcerated in federal prisons for the non-crime of using cannabis. Furthermore, for the 191 of them who were imprisoned for simple possession, I find it almost impossible to make the case that they're your average casual user given that the median amount of marijuana for those convicted of marijuana possession is 115 pounds.

[alguien]

Alguien,

I always wondered if Lucas was being deliberatly ironic with that self contradicting statement.

I had read that it was a deliberate stab at the Bush administration, but really, who knows? Lucas's writing skills make me seriously doubt that he can achieve deliberate irony.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

The data doesn't support your argument that "hundreds of thousands" people are incarcerated in federal prisons for the non-crime of using cannabis. Furthermore, for the 191 of them who were imprisoned for simple possession, I find it almost impossible to make the case that they're your average casual user given that the median amount of marijuana for those convicted of marijuana possession is 115 pounds.

Very well, I concede that the numbers are smaller. One could pad them out with other non-violent drug offenders, and of course Obama still has the power to pardon state-level offenders too. But he doesn't.

[The Progressive]

Very well, I concede that the numbers are smaller. One could pad them out with other non-violent drug offenders, and of course Obama still has the power to pardon state-level offenders too. But he doesn't.

Presidents cannot pardon someone for a state offense.

http://www.slate.com/id/1006923/

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

My mistake. My fervor on this has me practically unhinged. If there has ever been a president that didn't believe in second chances, from prosecuting whistleblowers, to his astronomically low number of pardons its this guy.

[The Progressive]

I have a feeling you might think differently about the number of pardons issued once he's about to leave the presidency. :P

[Cuellar]

Can someone post something liberal and coherent so I can argue for the republican position? Right now I don't know what the heck Tormund is arguing about...

I guess I'll start with - why doesn't Obama stand for what he believes? Is he the pollster president or one that just capitulates to the republicans? Or is he finally seeing "the light" and doing what's best for the country and not just the communists? (what's a republican arguement with some insults?)