Santa

[aimlessgun]

There was a thread a few weeks ago about strategies for hiding presents from kids, that shows that it does take some effort from adults :P Other than the worry of kids finding the presents, or uncovering the truth, there's the worries of other kids shattering it for them, and having to console your poor child.

The most stressful thing for me, personally, was hiding the presents under the tree. Sometimes the kids are determined to stay up waiting for Santa, or are light sleepers, or demand to sleep in the living room with the tree, etc. I would always worry about my kids waking up and catching me in the act.

Hah, well mental ease is more important in my estimation. Thinking is hard work!

Also my conception of how easy it was to hide stuff under the tree is a little skewed because my family has a tradition of taking the kids out to some (non-optional) activity in the evening of the 24th, and the gifts are there when they return. (we are not morning people)

[Tempra]

I don't think many of us would approve of a conspiracy to convince kids that during winter Santa Wight's sleigh comes soaring over the Wall, carried by flying ice spiders, to deliver medieval weaponry to all the good little boys and girls :D

The thing about imagination is that we know the things we imagine aren't real. We might be able to immerse ourselves in them, but we don't honestly think that Luke Skywalker is going to show up at our house. Santa defiles the line between reality and fiction, and turns imagination into actuality.

This is part of growing up. Santa and other myths are part of the learning process. Most kids learn that santa isn't real, barbies don't talk, people can't morph into dragons (that one hard to swallow), etc, at a very young age. How does santa blur the line between reality and fiction any more than a girl who has tea time with her barbies? We can eliminate the Santa myth, but that will not stop kids from believing in other fictions.

[Nakkie]

I don't usually participate in these threads, or any thread really, but I felt I needed to add something...

Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with you people? It's fucking Santa Clause! Setting bad examples and precedents by lying to your kids? Are you fucking kidding me? I swear, the longer I read this board, the more it seems to me that being the cynical asshole who thinks that everything we do is wrong and fucked up is the cool thing to do.

That is all,

Merry Fucking Christmas

[The Evil Hat]

A question for the anti-Santaists of the board: does this mean that you wouldn't be in favor of any lies to your kids? Would you, say, go over to their GI Joes/dolls and kick them over shouting NO, THEY'RE PLASTIC. STOP PRETENDING THEY'RE ALIVE!

[lessthanluke]

I don't usually participate in these threads, or any thread really, but I felt I needed to add something...

Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with you people? It's fucking Santa Clause! Setting bad examples and precedents by lying to your kids? Are you fucking kidding me? I swear, the longer I read this board, the more it seems to me that being the cynical asshole who thinks that everything we do is wrong and fucked up is the cool thing to do.

That is all,

Merry Fucking Christmas

+1

[S John]

+1

yep, +2

[Ski the Swift]

I don't usually participate in these threads, or any thread really, but I felt I needed to add something...

Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with you people? It's fucking Santa Clause! Setting bad examples and precedents by lying to your kids? Are you fucking kidding me? I swear, the longer I read this board, the more it seems to me that being the cynical asshole who thinks that everything we do is wrong and fucked up is the cool thing to do.

That is all,

Merry Fucking Christmas

You are my hero.

:bowdown:

[aimlessgun]

More strawmen, and now I'm being called a cynical asshole. Awesome discussion.

Merry Christmas to you guys as well.

[Shryke]

Kids aren't fucking stupid. They figure out that Santa isn't real eventually and you know what? They get it. They still play along.

It's not a big deal.

[Cantabile]

This is part of growing up. Santa and other myths are part of the learning process. Most kids learn that santa isn't real, barbies don't talk, people can't morph into dragons (that one hard to swallow), etc, at a very young age. How does santa blur the line between reality and fiction any more than a girl who has tea time with her barbies? We can eliminate the Santa myth, but that will not stop kids from believing in other fictions.

I disagree that kids learn these things. I've never known a child to sincerely believe that barbies are capable of talking. One can easily pretend something, while simultaneously knowing it's nonsense. I adored playing with toys as a kid, creating epic adventures and stories, giving life to all the little characters, but that was pretend. I didn't sincerely think my characters had organs, vocal chords, and were capable of all the things they did in my mind. And when I slept with stuffed animals, I might have treated them like they had feelings and were alive, and emotionally I may have felt that they were, but logically I knew it was physically impossible.

So the difference with Santa, is that this is society itself making people actually believe in blatant lies. After a certain point kids develop that same sense with Santa as they have with their barbies or stuffed animals: that it isn't real, but emotionally they still pretend and make believe that it is. But until that point society convinces them that Santa is a fact of like.

I don't usually participate in these threads, or any thread really, but I felt I needed to add something...

Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with you people? It's fucking Santa Clause! Setting bad examples and precedents by lying to your kids? Are you fucking kidding me? I swear, the longer I read this board, the more it seems to me that being the cynical asshole who thinks that everything we do is wrong and fucked up is the cool thing to do.

That is all,

Merry Fucking Christmas

I know where you're coming from, but just scoffing at something because you disagree doesn't invalidate it. How is lying to children setting a good precedent, exactly?

A question for the anti-Santaists of the board: does this mean that you wouldn't be in favor of any lies to your kids? Would you, say, go over to their GI Joes/dolls and kick them over shouting NO, THEY'RE PLASTIC. STOP PRETENDING THEY'RE ALIVE!

Pretending is perfectly okay, as pretending requires that one distinguish from reality and the make believe, otherwise it's not pretending. Kids pretending Santa exists is perfectly okay, it's convincing them that he is a fact of life, like the Earth being round, that I have a distaste for. But yes, I'm against any lies to children. This includes telling children that storks deliver babies, and all those examples.

[Ski the Swift]

I know where you're coming from, but just scoffing at something because you disagree doesn't invalidate it. How is lying to children setting a good precedent, exactly?

Child: What is love Daddy?

Dad: There is no such thing as love kid, I don't love you or your mother. It's just a chemical imbalance in my brain, I'm sorry to have lied to you for all these years.

Child: Where did I come from?

Dad: Well son. After a few too many drinks at the pub, I lowered my standards and slept with your mother. My penis became erect and I put it into her vagina. I then blew my seed into her and you grew in her uterus for nine months.

If that is what you told your son when he was under the age of ten because you didn't want to lie to him then there is no wonder that there are panty sniffy incestuous problems in the family.

[lessthanluke]

Child: What is love Daddy?

Dad: There is no such thing as love kid, I don't love you or your mother. It's just a chemical imbalance in my brain, I'm sorry to have lied to you for all these years.

Child: Where did I come from?

Dad: Well son. After a few too many drinks at the pub, I lowered my standards and slept with your mother. My penis became erect and I put it into her vagina. I then blew my seed into her and you grew in her uterus for nine months.

If that is what you told your son when he was under the age of ten because you didn't want to lie to him then there is no wonder that there are panty sniffy incestuous problems in the family.

:bowdown:

[Tempra]

A question for the anti-Santaists of the board: does this mean that you wouldn't be in favor of any lies to your kids? Would you, say, go over to their GI Joes/dolls and kick them over shouting NO, THEY'RE PLASTIC. STOP PRETENDING THEY'RE ALIVE!

"THERE IS NO MONSTER UNDER YOUR BED, MORON!"

[aimlessgun]

Tonight on Fox: When Strawmen Attack!

[Cantabile]

Child: What is love Daddy?

Dad: There is no such thing as love kid, I don't love you or your mother. It's just a chemical imbalance in my brain, I'm sorry to have lied to you for all these years.

Child: Where did I come from?

Dad: Well son. After a few too many drinks at the pub, I lowered my standards and slept with your mother. My penis became erect and I put it into her vagina. I then blew my seed into her and you grew in her uterus for nine months.

That's a pretty cruel exaggeration of truth. There's a fine line between not lying to someone when they ask you a question, and making your answer harsh and cutting. If a kid asks his parents what love is, they can just give their best definition and explanation as they view it, or if they view it in terms of the physiological emotion, then they can explain it that way if they think the kid is interested and will understand. Saying that there "is no such thing as love" is a lie as much as Santa is.

And one can explain basic reproduction to a child kindly. When a kid asks where babies come from, or how they came into existence, I highly doubt they're asking you specifically for the reasons that you chose to procreate with your spouse.

If that is what you told your son when he was under the age of ten because you didn't want to lie to him then there is no wonder that there are panty sniffy incestuous problems in the family.

Ran already asked to drop that subject and personal remarks like that in this thread. If you want to discuss it, then PM me, otherwise let's stay on topic.

[lessthanluke]

Tonight on Fox: When Strawmen Attack!

Yawn.

[Ski the Swift]

And one can explain basic reproduction to a child kindly. When a kid asks where babies come from, or how they came into existence, I highly doubt they're asking you specifically for the reasons that you chose to procreate with your spouse.

I'm sure I could word is much nicer, so let's say I do. Do you honestly believe it is in the kids best interest to know of a sexual act? Because if you leave out the sexual act you are lying to them. Children need to be children and they really don't need to know about these things at such a young age.

[Cantabile]

I'm sure I could word is much nicer, so let's say I do. Do you honestly believe it is in the kids best interest to know of a sexual act? Because if you leave out the sexual act you are lying to them. Children need to be children and they really don't need to know about these things at such a young age.

When people say this, what they really mean is, "Children need to be ignorant." Why should innocence be preserved simply because it makes the adult feel all warm and fuzzy since that's what their acculturation tells them is the right thing to do? Do children need to know about sex? No, it's not necessary, but there's absolutely no harm in a very basic explanation of intercourse when explaining reproduction. You don't have to show the child pornography, and they're not going to understand sexuality like an adult would, since they lack the ability to experience it, but there's absolutely no harm in saying that men and women have reproductive organs, and explaining the gist of it, and how babies are born as a result. You're not teaching them about sodomy, sex positions, BDSM, fetishes, or anything else. You're just teaching them that men have penises, women have vaginas, these two pieces connect like legos in pubescent individuals, sperm impregnates the woman, it develops in her belly, and then 9 months later it's delivered. What exactly about that explanation is scarring a child's innocence?

Lying about birth to a child is as silly as lying about death. These are two fundamental realities of biology.

[jurble]

I never got to believe in Santa, my parents were all like "More evidence that these Christians are just unbelieving pagans."

[lessthanluke]

When people say this, what they really mean is, "Children need to be ignorant." Why should innocence be preserved simply because it makes the adult feel all warm and fuzzy since that's what their acculturation tells them is the right thing to do? Do children need to know about sex? No, it's not necessary, but there's absolutely no harm in a very basic explanation of intercourse when explaining reproduction. You don't have to show the child pornography, and they're not going to understand sexuality like an adult would, since they lack the ability to experience it, but there's absolutely no harm in saying that men and women have reproductive organs, and explaining the gist of it, and how babies are born as a result.

Lying about birth to a child is as silly as lying about death. These are two fundamental realities of biology.

I am going to ask you to refer back to post #92. Thanks.