[BOOK SPOILERS] The First 15 Minutes

[Sipher]

just like in any literature to film/tv adaptation the hardcore literary fans will not be completely satiated. there will obviously need to be some things omitted because of length/time constraints.

that being said, i think they nailed the look, sound and feel of the North and the series. we haven't even seen King's Landing, Casterly Rock, Dragonstone, Highgarden or anything other than Winterfell and a small fraction of a tract of land just north of the wall. the acting was spot-on. the WIGHTS (not white walkers, they won't show the Others until later because showing them too soon would be playing one of their aces too soon), looked (and moved) in a really cool way that inspired awe and fear.

I think people shouldn't be looking for a more literal translation of the books and look for HBO and GRRM to more closely emulate the feel of the series.

Daenerys is beautiful.

Winter is Coming.

[mormont]

Given that i know definitely and directly that Others in the books do not let people whom they are directly fighting go in order so that they can warn the other humans about them i really dont need to especially prove it.

I'm not sure you do. You may have come to this conclusion from what happens in the books, but coming to a conclusion and 'knowing definitely and directly' aren't the same thing.

What youre doing is finding excuses for bad and unnecessary decisions in order not to feel bad about them - so that you can enjoy the show without anything getting in the way regardless of its own merit.

Which, generally i dont mind as a personal thing but as an argument it doesnt hold much water.

No, I'm just granting the writers the benefit of the doubt, which I think they deserve not just because, y'know, people generally do: but also because I know they've had many more long and in-depth conversations with the author about the story than I (and I'm pretty sure you) have had. If they think the way the Others behave in the prologue makes sense in terms of how Others generally behave, frankly they're better qualified to judge.

[Ran]

Indeed.

They're privy to things none of us are, that only George and perhaps Parris know.

In the end, the show is the show and the books are the books. I would not take it as a given that we "know" anything about the Others on the show.

[Tywin's bastard]

We know that they kill anyone including women and children without mercy and that do not strutt around as if they are from some bad tv show.

We know that they kill most people but you're forgetting Craster and his wives. It's not the same thing, just something to show that your statement is false. As for knowledge of the Others in general, regardless if they stick with it or not I'm quite sure D&D have been told more about them than either of us.

What youre doing is finding excuses for bad and unnecessary decisions in order not to feel bad about them - so that you can enjoy the show without anything getting in the way regardless of its own merit.

Which, generally i dont mind as a personal thing but as an argument it doesnt hold much water.

It's a matter of perspective. This isn't the book, it's D&D's homage to the story through a different media and I knew from the start that things would be different. If I didn't go in with the mindset of trying to find logic in the changes, instead of being stuck with accepting nothing but the literal events and descriptions from the books, I wouldn't be watching the adaptation at all, I'd stick purely with the novels.

[Emo Jon Snow]

Did they remove Bran / Ned's interaction :

"Can you still be brave if you're scared?"

"That's the only time you can be brave."

or is that during their return trip before they come across the wolves?

That's an important scene early on. Father teaching his son. I hope they keep that part in the show.

[adamsputnik]

That's an important scene early on. Father teaching his son. I hope they keep that part in the show.

I imagine we will see this scene in a little under two weeks' time. Not sure why people are worrying about it? Obviously, the preview didn't get far enough into the story to include that bit.

I too was a little unsure why Will was left to go. But I guess we just don't know anything about the Others and the way they think, and perhaps D&D are privy to more than we have been let into.

[Josquius]

Jon doesn't have a northern accent, which is dissapointing, but not a major thing, just something little that would have been cool.

I'm unsure about whether it will really draw people in going off this first 15. It just feels so very...slow and ploddy, nothing to really grab. I must say that does also hold somewhat true to the books, when I first started reading GoT I was like 'So this is it? That awesome fantasy series my friend was going on about? It seems quite generic and means little to me so far...'. Trouble is people are less likely to give TV shows time to pick up and get into the swing of things than books.

Arya with the bow was quite painfully cliched.

Dissapointed the credits weren't on it, really curious about those

Winterfell looks a bit too sparse to my eyes. Sure, its described as a castle, not a city, but still, there was the winter town, and you would expect some surrounding crops or sheep and whatnot. Not just...a barren fell.

Still, I'm still really looking forward to it.

[Alcarin]

just like in any literature to film/tv adaptation the hardcore literary fans will not be completely satiated. there will obviously need to be some things omitted because of length/time constraints.

Ofcourse people will find mistakes BUT

There are mistakes majority of fans will understand and there are mistakes majority of fans will never understand.

Example.

I am quite sure majority of fans do NOT mind the fact they had first scene shot of them leaving the Wall instead of already talking about the camp.

I am also quite sure majority of the fans will refuse or never understand WHY they exchanged Will for Gared.

I am quite sure majority of the fans will have nothing against the girl with blue eyes watching Will

I am quite sure majority of fans will not understand why did the ''survivor'' had to see beheading and why the White Walker spared him

So here you have 2 examples of acceptable changes and 2 examples of unacceptable changes.

Fact remains both mentioned unacceptable changes if changed to how it SHOULD HAVE BEEN would not increase the length of the episode at all.

So yes, as stated before, that is the difference.

It goes the same for Theon kicking head... I dont understand why not add this in a scene when Ned goes to Bran, we could have Theon kicking the head and Ned would not see it and it would satisfy fans

Allthough to be fair i did not care for that scene.

[FilliamHMuffman]

If I hadn't read the book, I don't think the White Walkers dismembering people would have seemed strange to me. I would have assumed it was part of the magic that raised the dead. Maybe the White Walkers need to dismember a few of their victims and leave the parts scattered in a ritualistic way to animate the rest?

I prefer the prologue of the book, but an extended sword fight with a CG monster would have been very expensive and looked awful if the CG on shows like Lost is anything to go by, so they needed to substitute something else as a hook in the first few minutes to draw new viewers in. The cut to Will being captured is rather jarring in the preview, but I think it will work better on the 17th when the opening titles are included.

[Sipher]

The series hasn't even begun yet. Arguing over the first 15 minutes is almost as big of a waste of time as arguing over opinion.

If you expect there to not be any differences then you should probably save yourself the frustration and not watch the series at all. The producers did work with GRRM on the TV show and the creation process and they do have his blessing so if anybody should have any gripes with changes being made it should be the person who created ASoIaF and not the people who are simply obsessed with it.

[gumby]

I just gotta say that headless Wights are probably not the ideal fighting force, so they should reconsider how the Others are killing people. Garred and Ser Waymer would probably better zombie fighters with heads still attached.

ETA: We don't actually see Ser Waymer killed so it's just speculation.

[NW Deserter]

Awesome, awesome preview of the show.

The prologue - we can argue forever about how it deviates from the books, but I'm of the opinion that most of the changes they made were good decisions for the television medium. Only thing I really missed seeing here was the awesome "Dance with me" line where Ser Waymar gets his moment to shine, but without the inner monologue of any of the characters to tell the audience that now he was truly a member of the Nights Watch, it would probably just be lost on brand new fans. Plus, it would take some impressive visuals to get that to look right, and I don't know that HBO would be willing to spend that much time on a scene like that just to appease hardcore fans of the book (like myself).

As far as the glimpse of the Starks that we've gotten, the kids are portrayed fantastically. Maisie's Arya has been my favorite of the Starks to watch in all the trailers, but honestly, after that preview, Bran now takes that spot. Isaac is really nailing him so far. Kit's Jon is also spot on, and Robb (I forget the actor's name) is acting a little reserved, as he should be, since he's next in line to rule the north. Sansa already gets on my nerves. ;)

[mormont]

I'm still unsure as to why the change from Will to Gared should be considered 'unacceptable'? Unexplained, certainly. But surely if a change is trivial, then there's no real need for it to be justified with an explanation: and I can think of few more trivial and inconsequential changes than this. If anyone disagrees, please do explain why you think it's important. I can't think of any answer except 'because that's how it was in the book'. As far as that goes, I suppose one can start from the position that any change, no matter how trivial, must be justified: but I don't think it's a particularly reasonable stance to take.

[Brude]

I just gotta say that headless Wights are probably not the ideal fighting force, so they should reconsider how the Others are killing people. Garred and Ser Waymer would probably better zombie fighters with heads still attached.

Maybe they just stitch them back together...

[Tywin's bastard]

no im not forgeting Craster. its another example that hasnt got anything to do with "letting Will go" scene.

Craster is buying himself time and his very life by giving newborn babies to the Others.

Clearly not the same thing.

You don't have to repeat the exact same thing I already wrote (that it's not the same thing). You wrote that they kill everyone without mercy and I pointed out that it's not so. Their actions seem to be with purpose and letting Will go does nothing to break that, as we know too little about it. It's a change, but complaining about changes without knowing where it leads is pointless to me.

This is also wrong conclusion and common and very false attempt at argument in these discussions.

As i said before i dont mind changes - IF they make sense. If they do not, then i cannot like them or condone them.

Im sure i will still enjoy the series to some degree, despite this, but there is no way im going to excuse bad decisions or pretend they are not bad.

You keep a poor tone in your posts but trying to tell me that my conclusion about myself is wrong is just mind-boggling. And please read what I write instead of making up your own things because I clearly did not write that you shouldn't be watching the show, I explained why I reason like I do from my perspective so you could understand why. Perhaps you're not interested in understanding and just want to complain about everything?

To say that the change doesn't make sense is also pretty weird. They might know more about what the Others are and their complete behavior-span than you or I so it could be within the realm of sense there. They might want the Others to be something different from the books in order to tell something and then it makes sense to change it. There can be many explanations that brings logic to why it's like it is. That something makes sense or not and that a given individual likes it or not are two completely different things.

I probably won't like every change in the series, but I will definitely try to understand all of them. That includes looking at things from many more perspectives than my own.

[Alcarin]

The series hasn't even begun yet. Arguing over the first 15 minutes is almost as big of a waste of time as arguing over opinion.

If you expect there to not be any differences then you should probably save yourself the frustration and not watch the series at all. The producers did work with GRRM on the TV show and the creation process and they do have his blessing so if anybody should have any gripes with changes being made it should be the person who created ASoIaF and not the people who are simply obsessed with it.

So basically you are saying noone on the world should ever have any gripes over something UNLESS he created it???

Remember this when you will make any critiques over anything your goverment ''creates''(laws etc.)

As if you would read my post you would see there are two different changes, and as i explained this is how majority of those who read books will see the thing.

[FilliamHMuffman]

I'm still unsure as to why the change from Will to Gared should be considered 'unacceptable'? Unexplained, certainly. But surely if a change is trivial, then there's no real need for it to be justified with an explanation: and I can think of few more trivial and inconsequential changes than this. If anyone disagrees, please do explain why you think it's important. I can't think of any answer except 'because that's how it was in the book'. As far as that goes, I suppose one can start from the position that any change, no matter how trivial, must be justified: but I don't think it's a particularly reasonable stance to take.

I'd guess they changed it because seeing a young man in his prime executed is more powerful than the execution of a tired old man.

[Alcarin]

I'm still unsure as to why the change from Will to Gared should be considered 'unacceptable'? Unexplained, certainly. But surely if a change is trivial, then there's no real need for it to be justified with an explanation: and I can think of few more trivial and inconsequential changes than this. If anyone disagrees, please do explain why you think it's important. I can't think of any answer except 'because that's how it was in the book'. As far as that goes, I suppose one can start from the position that any change, no matter how trivial, must be justified: but I don't think it's a particularly reasonable stance to take.

Yeh but here is the point of the whole thing.

If there is no reason as WHY they changed it from Gared to Will then WHY not leave it the way it is in book?

Its a double edged thing but considering its adaptation i think the question ''why not leave it the same as in book'' is more valid than ''why argue over it if its trivial and not of big importance''

As i said... The scene where they are leaving Wall was not in the book and i am sure 99.999% of fans will have nothing to say over it.

The only thing they achieved with this decision is

-disappoint fans for no good reason

-make girls/mothers/women be more sympathetic to a young man beheading

And i dont think the second outweights the first

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I thought Will got executed because the actor's schedule and not Gared's allowed him to be available for shooting the beheading scene, but I could be wrong. Either way I don't see why it matters in the grand scheme of things.

Wouldn't a human head be a bit heavy? I can't imagine it kicking well, and I thought that scene was a bit weird in the book as it made me think of the head as a ball which I know isn't the case, so I certainly didn't miss it. However, I've never tried to kick a freshly decapitated human head, so I could be entirely off base. ;)

[Imp]

Unacceptable changes? Lol. Personally I couldn't give a toss about the others. They're a menace beyond the wall and the intro we saw did a decent job establishing it. Beyond that they have little significance in the first couple books.

The political struggle is the centre of the story. Get that right and for all I care the others could be giant hedgehog monsters from Neptune.