NHL: Playoff Edition

[BLU-RAY]

... anybody else watching this Sharks-Kings game? What a comeback by San Jose. This is some hectic shit.

ETA: Wow. It's only 2-1 San Jose now, but that feels pretty ugly for the Kings as far as confidence/momentum/psyche goes. On the flipside, I don't really think the 'Hawks huge win today will end up affecting their series much at all. I think Vancouver will close it out in game 5.

[Demonblade]

I had something to do in the second period, so again, I recorded it. When I got back for the third, however, I couldn't help but notice the score, which at the time was 7-1 Chicago. Needless to say, I did not catch up to watch such a horrific self-destruction on the Canucks' part. I was too disgusted to bother watching the SJ/LA game, but looking at the score, I think I may have made a bad decision there.

[Bronn Stone]

... anybody else watching this Sharks-Kings game? What a comeback by San Jose. This is some hectic shit.

ETA: Wow. It's only 2-1 San Jose now, but that feels pretty ugly for the Kings as far as confidence/momentum/psyche goes. On the flipside, I don't really think the 'Hawks huge win today will end up affecting their series much at all. I think Vancouver will close it out in game 5.

I was watching this one. Not a huge hockey fan, and a Sharks fan to the extent I follow anyone. But my brother in San Diego is a huge Kings fan and we were texting back and forth. He blames me for his loss - he says the Sharks choke best when I am paying attention and when it got to 4-0 I started flipping back and forth between hockey and Oakland A's baseball.

[Biter]

I was watching this one. Not a huge hockey fan, and a Sharks fan to the extent I follow anyone. But my brother in San Diego is a huge Kings fan and we were texting back and forth. He blames me for his loss - he says the Sharks choke best when I am paying attention and when it got to 4-0 I started flipping back and forth between hockey and Oakland A's baseball.

So you won't watch any of the remaining games in the series then, right?

[Bronn Stone]

So you won't watch any of the remaining games in the series then, right?

Nah. I'll watch just enough to make sure it goes seven.

[Lord O' Bones]

So you won't watch any of the remaining games in the series then, right?

Not that I'd wish A's baseball on anyone, but yeah, feel free to continue not paying much attention.

ETA: Damnit!

[Demonblade]

Suddenly, I felt this urge to hear this song. GO JETS!!!!

[Cable]

As a fan of the Penguins, a team who's had their fair share of relocation troubles, it was heartbreaking watching the end of the Coyotes / Wings game. I don't know if it was the fans' reactions, Shane Doan (probably the nicest and classiest guys in sports) tearing up and looking like his soul got ripped out, or the fact that I can empathize, but I totally teared up watching the end of that game. I'm really pulling for the franchise to stay in Phoenix - two wrongs don't make a right. The team is getting better and all it takes is one or two good years to make it work.

[Demonblade]

They never should have left in the first place, Cable. Besides, the city of Glendale should not have to bankrupt themselves in order to keep 5,000 regular attendees happy. The city is willing to do so, and I wouldn't wish that on a populace who doesn't even support the team. Scottsdale residents are the ones who attend the games, and they are not the ones who are willing to pay the nasty price of possible bankruptcy in order to keep a team that has never made a profit. Even if this whole situation is not completely self-serving, I would still support the team getting the hell out of Arizona. Put them in Portland, if Bettman truly does not want another team in Canada. At least that city has a fan base that is somewhat familiar with hockey.

[Demonblade]

Oh, and what I mean by they should not have left in the first place, well, that's all the fault of some small-minded people in this city who were too unwilling to allow for an NHL team to be feasible here. Now, the ownership group actually owns both the team and all of the revenues, which was not the case before. Imagine any major professional sports team trying to live off of solely gate tickets? That's what the cheap fuckers around here were at the time. Oh, and we really needed to get a better arena. I had some of the best memories of my childhood at the Winnipeg Arena, but that place was a shithole. If we got our shit together, they would never have left, IMO.

[Maithanet]

Very exciting game yesterday for the Caps. I missed the part where they were doing terrible, so I only caught the furious comeback and then 32 minutes of overtime hockey. The Caps were piling chance upon chance in overtime, but couldn't put it in, and I was starting to worry that Lunquist was going to steal this one. But a defensive miscue and lucky bounce were what it took to get the win, and I'll take it. Pretty crushing loss for the Rangers after being up 3-0 going into the third at home. I will never say a series is over before it is, but that will be tough for the Rangers to come back from. Game 5 can't come soon enough.

[Insert Edit]

They never should have left in the first place, Cable. Besides, the city of Glendale should not have to bankrupt themselves in order to keep 5,000 regular attendees happy. The city is willing to do so, and I wouldn't wish that on a populace who doesn't even support the team. Scottsdale residents are the ones who attend the games, and they are not the ones who are willing to pay the nasty price of possible bankruptcy in order to keep a team that has never made a profit. Even if this whole situation is not completely self-serving, I would still support the team getting the hell out of Arizona. Put them in Portland, if Bettman truly does not want another team in Canada. At least that city has a fan base that is somewhat familiar with hockey.

I think Bettman gets a bad rap in Canada. You can make a pretty solid argument that Bettman is a BIG reason why Calgary and Edmonton are still NHL cities. Everyone likes to make fun of him as the ex NBA guy, but as a life-long Sonics fan, I can only wish the stubborn Bettman had been running things when Oklahoma City came calling.

[Slurktan]

I think Bettman gets a bad rap in Canada. You can make a pretty solid argument that Bettman is a BIG reason why Calgary and Edmonton are still NHL cities. Everyone likes to make fun of him as the ex NBA guy, but as a life-long Sonics fan, I can only wish the stubborn Bettman had been running things when Oklahoma City came calling.

He gets a bad rap for the Nordiques and Jets moving and for expanding into every area of the States instead of Canada. And rightfully he should. But I'm quite sure his stance of exhausting every last option has come around because of the blowback from those two early moves. If he had let Edmonton or Calgary move I would highly doubt Bettman would have had his job.

And off topic but the Supersonics move was nothing compared to the snowjob done to Vancouver. David Stern even admits that one.

[Demonblade]

Hey don't get me wrong, I think Bettman's doing the best job he can. I'm not one of those who hates Bettman because the Jets left. It wasn't his fault they left, after all. But there are many in Canada (and more specifically Winnipeg) who believe that Bettman hates Canada, and never will let a team move there. Now that may be the case, and if the Coyotes move anywhere but Winnipeg then it'll prove to be true. What is certain is that the team cannot stay in Arizona.

[Myiagros]

All signs point to Bettman not wanting to move another team back to Canada depending on how you look at it. Blackberry guy was offering $250M or something for the Coyotes to take them to Hamilton. It could either be MLSE or Bettman that had issue with that, but finding a fanbase there would be a no-brainer considering the near impossibility of getting tickets to a Toronto game. Now he is only looking for $150M and can't find anyone in the Phoenix area that wants them. I'm surprised he doesn't drop the price by another $50M just because he doesn't want to give up his plan which everyone knew was going to fail from the start, Phoenix just isn't a hockey city yet, maybe in another 10-15 years as the USA comes to enjoy the game more, for now though I think the best bet is a place where fans will go to the games and the culture is strong. You can't have outdoor rinks in Phoenix so what kid is going to get into the sport when they can't play it all the time, they are more likely to go to football, baseball or basketball where cost is a very small factor when it comes to choosing an activity.

[Lord O' Bones]

All signs point to Bettman not wanting to move another team back to Canada depending on how you look at it. Blackberry guy was offering $250M or something for the Coyotes to take them to Hamilton. It could either be MLSE or Bettman that had issue with that, but finding a fanbase there would be a no-brainer considering the near impossibility of getting tickets to a Toronto game. Now he is only looking for $150M and can't find anyone in the Phoenix area that wants them. I'm surprised he doesn't drop the price by another $50M just because he doesn't want to give up his plan which everyone knew was going to fail from the start, Phoenix just isn't a hockey city yet, maybe in another 10-15 years as the USA comes to enjoy the game more, for now though I think the best bet is a place where fans will go to the games and the culture is strong. You can't have outdoor rinks in Phoenix so what kid is going to get into the sport when they can't play it all the time, they are more likely to go to football, baseball or basketball where cost is a very small factor when it comes to choosing an activity.

You have to look at how geographically huge Phoenix is. And then where the Arena's/fields are.

Where the Diamondbacks play is far from where the Cardinals play is far from where the Suns play is far from where the Coyotes play. And so is the money. Parts of Pheonix has money, many parts don't. And most of it is a 45 minute drive from each other.

This isn't San Jose where nothing is more than 20 minutes away and probably wealthy enough in any case. I can't think of any other NHL city in this situation.

[Myiagros]

I'm not sure about most of the Canadian teams, but for Ottawa it is the case, mostly anyways. The rink is a 20-40 minute drive from downtown depending on traffic, which on game nights is absolutely brutal. A good majority of the fans however tend to drive from outside of the city. The rink is in Kanata which is the west end of town. I personally know of a few people with season tickets that drive from the small communities east of Ottawa, for them it is a 20-40 minute drive just to Ottawa, then another 20-40 minutes in the previously mentioned traffic. The drive is easier for people coming from the west as it is the 417(major highway in Ottawa). People from Arnprior which is the closest town west have roughly a 25-35 minute drive, next town out is another 15 minutes, and I even know people who have driven from Pembroke for hockey games which is about 90 minutes.

Basically, distance to get to a hockey game is not an issue for people that will actually go to the game. Ottawa has a population of under 1 million last time I checked which is a 3rd of Phoenix, add in the outlying towns and it might only be another 50,000 on top of that. If hockey was popular in Phoenix they should have no issue about driving that distance to go to a game. If Phoenix actually had the fans then it should not be an issue, but averaging 10,000 or less from a pool of 3M+ is a clear indicator that it is not a hockey market, at least not one big enough to sustain an NHL team. Winnipeg with 650K would have a better turnout than 10,000 easily on every night.

Send the team back to Quebec City or Winnipeg and it is pretty much a guarantee that it will have a high percentage of sellouts no matter the quality of the team. Edmonton and Ottawa can still sell out games no matter how badly they are playing. The same can't be said for any southern NHL team(see Dallas this year), it seems as though they could win their division and still have problems bringing fans to the games. In Canada and the northern USA(Boston, NYR, Detroit) teams can play horribly and still sell out, just look at Toronto, if that exact team was in the south they would not have a single sellout all year. Canadians are simply much more enthusiastic and supportive of their teams, even in bad years.

[Demonblade]

Well wrt Phoenix, they had a decent fan base in Scottsdale, but the team was unable to build a new arena there, which led to the deal with Glendale. Glendale built their arena as part of a huge commercial/entertainment district, which might have been a good idea if it was easy to get to, which it is not. Scottsdale fans couldn't make it to most games because it took 45 minutes to an hour to get there. So basically this whole fiasco was doomed from the start, because the fans who most likely would have attended could not make the long journey half the time.

[Sirius]

I don't really care all that much about the Phoenix situation, but just to add to Myiagros' point... Whenever this discussion comes up amongst friends, I feel the need to point out, I would be willing to bet that even Saskatoon could support an NHL team. Now, I know a lot of the revenue is from the corporate side, which is lacking here. But just look at Rider games. People from all across the province drive up to 5 hours to sell out a 30,000 seat football stadium, you would be hardpressed to convince me that an NHL team wouldn't sell half that.

If the fans want to see hockey, they will do what it takes to see hockey. Sure, there are some loyal fans in Phoenix, but there sure as hell isn't enough to justify keeping that trainwreck of a situation going any longer than necessary.

Also, how bout them Bruins. Geesh, I was at work, I wish I could have seen that. And now the Hawks are going home down 3-2. Everyone keeps telling me how great Vancouver is, I hardly watched them all year so I'm probably lacking the respect for them that they deserve, but I honestly can't help but feel like Chicago has a legitimate shot at this now (knock on wood).

[Sirius]

Edit: Double post. I'm an idiot.