Why Jaime deserves to die (Storm Of Swords Spoilers)

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

True, Roose implicated Jaime. But UnCat should know Roose is untrustworthy. If Roose's words are burned into her mind, shouldn't his horrible treachery against House Stark be burned in her mind even more indelibly? The last time Catelyn relied solely on the accusatory word of an untrustworthy person (LF) to shanghai Tyrion, look at all the grief she unleashed. It should occur to her that Roose's words might be misleading. Even if it doesn't occur to her, she ought to reserve judgment pending further information. And when her formerly most trusted knight provides just such further information, she ought to credit it.

Roose said it right before Catelyn died - what possible reason could he have for "misleading" her? It's only through magical means that Catelyn survived.

[AvengingAryaFan]

Roose said it right before Catelyn died - what possible reason could he have for "misleading" her? It's only through magical means that Catelyn survived.

First, Roose Bolton didn't know that Cat was about to die, so any reasons he had to mislead Catelyn were still operative when he spoke. But in any event, I don't assume he was misleading Catelyn in particular. He made a public statement that wrongly implicated Jaime in the RW. It was misleading. Was is gallows humor? I really don't know why he did it - who his intended audience was, and what the intended effect was - and nobody has answered my repeated inquiries about it. It certainly seems contrary to Bolton's apparent desire to get on Tywin's good side; I've wondered if Martin wrote it because it was necessary to set up Stoneheart/Brienne, and sacrificed internal consistency for Bolton. That would be a bit disappointing.

In any event, the words are from an unreliable source, a source mortally hostile to the Starks. One relies on such a source at their peril. Compared with Bolton, Catelyn had much better reason to believe LF, who hadn't yet shown himself inimical to the Stark adults - but even with LF she had ample reason to be cautious. Regrettably for the Starks (and Brienne, et al.), in neither case did she cautiously seek corroboration. She simply accepted the words (which we now know to have been false) in both cases, and made crucial, and disastrous, decisions based almost solely on those words.

[Faint]

I've wondered if Martin wrote it because it was necessary to set up Stoneheart/Brienne, and sacrificed internal consistency for Bolton. That would be a bit disappointing.

The writer wrote it so as to make Catelyn think Jaime was responsible for the Red Wedding and plant the necessary seed of doubt in Brienne's mind that Jaime and Roose plotted the Red Wedding after she was taken away from their little dinner party back in ASoS.

[Huan]

The writer wrote it so as to make Catelyn think Jaime was responsible for the Red Wedding and plant the necessary seed of doubt in Brienne's mind that Jaime and Roose plotted the Red Wedding after she was taken away from their little dinner party back in ASoS.

What was Roose's motivation, though? To announce to the North that he was in league with the Lannisters? Doesn't seem like the smartest move, but then again he thought all of the witnesses would be dead anyway. I would have thought he'd want to keep his agreement with the Lannisters on the QT.

[Faint]

What was Roose's motivation, though? To announce to the North that he was in league with the Lannisters? Doesn't seem like the smartest move, but then again he thought all of the witnesses would be dead anyway. I would have thought he'd want to keep his agreement with the Lannisters on the QT.

I simply think Roose was being cruel and it was nothing more than a show of dark humor. Although, I suppose you could make the argument that Roose misinterpreted Jaime about what the latter meant by the comment.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Although, I suppose you could make the argument that Roose misinterpreted Jaime about what the latter meant by the comment.

This was my interpretation. Roose really thought Jaime knew all about the red wedding. Roose, being an evil bastard, thought it would be fun to rub Catelyn's face in the notion that her release of Jaime led directly to Robb's death (which, of course, isn't what really happened, but Roose thought it was).

[Talleyrand]

I simply think Roose was being cruel and it was nothing more than a show of dark humor. Although, I suppose you could make the argument that Roose misinterpreted Jaime about what the latter meant by the comment.

Also didn't all the Northmen in the great hall die. So it just seems like Roose wanting to have a nice pre-killing line

[Nukelavee]

The Boltons are NOT nice people, lol, and they surely love to hurt the Starks.

I'm thinking letting the last thing Robb hears is a reference to his House's enemy, from his own bannerman, throwing his mother's "mistake" in his face...?

Closest thing the man could come up with to a flaying.

[Faint]

This was my interpretation. Roose really thought Jaime knew all about the red wedding. Roose, being an evil bastard, thought it would be fun to rub Catelyn's face in the notion that her release of Jaime led directly to Robb's death (which, of course, isn't what really happened, but Roose thought it was).

You might be right. I waiver on this point. I have to say though, the more I read that scene, the more I start siding with your interpretation. There is even a funny little line where Jaime wonders if Brienne realizes what is going on and it would be doubly ironic if it turned out that even Jaime did not realize what was going on. Ultimately though, it does not matter. Whether Roose thought Jaime knew about the Red Wedding or not, he certainly gave that impression to Catelyn. Moreover, there was enough choice bits in that dinner scene to now make Brienne wonder if Jaime did know about the Red Wedding. That is the key.

My prediction is that Catelyn will tell Brienne about what Roose Bolton said and Brienne will put two and two together and start having doubts about Jaime because of what happened during that dinner. This will be enough to have her go kill Jaime but I think she will ultimately waiver in the end and be killed right in front of her target.

[AvengingAryaFan]

You might be right. I waiver on this point. I have to say though, the more I read that scene, the more I start siding with your interpretation. There is even a funny little line where Jaime wonders if Brienne realizes what is going on and it would be doubly ironic if it turned out that even Jaime did not realize what was going on. Ultimately though, it does not matter. Whether Roose thought Jaime knew about the Red Wedding or not, he certainly gave that impression to Catelyn. Moreover, there was enough choice bits in that dinner scene to now make Brienne wonder if Jaime did know about the Red Wedding. That is the key.

My prediction is that Catelyn will tell Brienne about what Roose Bolton said and Brienne will put two and two together and start having doubts about Jaime because of what happened during that dinner. This will be enough to have her go kill Jaime but I think she will ultimately waiver in the end and be killed right in front of her target.

I think you waver on the point, actually ;-)

I'm glad to finally get some suggestions about the reason Roose said it; I'm also somewhat inclined to MyDog's interpretation, and particularly like the irony you pointed out. OTOH, even if Roose misunderstood, it still seems contrary to Lannister interests, and therefore ultimately contrary to his own interests.

BTW, it appears not everybody was to die. Catelyn might not have been killed but for her madness and Jinglebells, and I believe the Smalljon was kept as a hostage; and besides, there were a lot of Freys about so Bolton's words were likely to be reported.

As to your prediction, though, I guess you're assuming that Brienne screams "sword" and UnCat loudly tells the BwB to halt the hanging, and that they do so in time, and then she sits down and has a little heart-to-heart with Brienne. I can't say it's terribly unlikely, but I don't like it much. Frankly, after the way Stoneheart treated Brienne and her companions, even if we get to the heart-to-heart I hope Brienne rejects Stoneheart internally, regardless of what she chooses to say. That isn't to say Stoneheart doesn't succeed in planting a seed of doubt, though; but I do not believe Brienne would make Catelyn's characteristic mistake of assuming the truth of words from an untrustworthy source.

However, sending Brienne back to Jaime after feeding her that bit of misleading hearsay could be the mechanism by which Jaime becomes aware of Roose's words and actions - and it might just start a little rethinking on Jaime's part, perhaps eventually leading to the "contrary to Bolton's interests" thing that I mentioned.

[A wilding]

The logic that "[brienne] accepts stuff from an enemy to continue the quest her leige sent her on means she's due a hangin..." just doesn't fly.

Except that Catelyn didn't send her on that quest.

What was Roose's motivation, though? To announce to the North that he was in league with the Lannisters? Doesn't seem like the smartest move, but then again he thought all of the witnesses would be dead anyway. I would have thought he'd want to keep his agreement with the Lannisters on the QT.

I would guess two possibilities:

- He did have a deal with Jaime that he would go ahead with his betrayal of Robb, and was scrupulously following the letter of this deal to minimise the chance of him getting blamed for Jaime's maiming after all.

- He wanted to make it clear that the Lannisters were backing the RW, either so that they got their share of the blame, or to put heart into his men and/or the Freys.

[Nukelavee]

Wilding - yeah, I think Roose likely wanted to be sure witnesses knew the Lannisters had a hand in it....not that anybody would believe Jaimie was sinlehandedly responsible. (yeah, i went there!)

But, as to the quest to return Sansa....Fine. Cat never specifically said Brienne was to rescue her daughters personally, that she was just meant to get Jaimie to KL so a trade could be made. But, seriously, it's pretty picky not to admit that, having gotten to KL with Jaimie, and finding neither daughter in custody, Brienne deciding to accept Jaimie's aid in finding Sansa and getting her home isn't a fairly reasonable and logical contiuation of her duty.

What else could she have done, at that point? No Starks available to return to, so, what? she should have just said "Done", and gone back to Tarth? Hypothetically, had the BWB grabbed her on her own, while she was on her way home, do you think she would have been welcomed with open arms? Or would she STILL be treated as some kind of traitor?

I'm thinking she still would have been standing there with her head in a noose.

[Faint]

I think you waver on the point, actually ;-)

I'm glad to finally get some suggestions about the reason Roose said it; I'm also somewhat inclined to MyDog's interpretation, and particularly like the irony you pointed out. OTOH, even if Roose misunderstood, it still seems contrary to Lannister interests, and therefore ultimately contrary to his own interests.

BTW, it appears not everybody was to die. Catelyn might not have been killed but for her madness and Jinglebells, and I believe the Smalljon was kept as a hostage; and besides, there were a lot of Freys about so Bolton's words were likely to be reported.

I went back and read the scene over again and now I'm pretty convinced that Roose did misunderstand the meaning of Jaime's words. Jaime was clearly being sarcastic when he said what he did but Roose Bolton was at that point convinced that Jaime had some inkling about the enormity of the betrayal that was about to happen and that he was on board with it. Roose never seemed to realize that Jaime had no clue about the true nature of what was going on. He understood the proceedings with Roose at a deeper level than Brienne did, that's very clear, but not all that much more. This is all about the conversation underneath the conversation. Brienne was taking everything at face value, so she was lost (but probably suspicious), Jaime sort of got what was going on, but not completely, and Roose assumed that Jaime had more knowledge and a better understanding than he truly possessed.

As for why Roose went ahead and said what he did when he killed Robb, my own interpretation is that he didn't care very much. He said it, perhaps on a whim, but, in any case, having not put much thought into it. He certainly didn't do it to inform the people there that Jaime Lannister was involved -- that would serve no purpose. And really, it doesn't affect him in any way -- Catelyn will want him dead no matter what he said. Unfortunately, through the most unlikely of scenarios, pure blind luck, and simple misunderstanding, I think what Roose said is ultimately going to spell the end of both Brienne and Jaime.

As to your prediction, though, I guess you're assuming that Brienne screams "sword" and UnCat loudly tells the BwB to halt the hanging, and that they do so in time, and then she sits down and has a little heart-to-heart with Brienne. I can't say it's terribly unlikely, but I don't like it much. Frankly, after the way Stoneheart treated Brienne and her companions, even if we get to the heart-to-heart I hope Brienne rejects Stoneheart internally, regardless of what she chooses to say. That isn't to say Stoneheart doesn't succeed in planting a seed of doubt, though; but I do not believe Brienne would make Catelyn's characteristic mistake of assuming the truth of words from an untrustworthy source.

However, sending Brienne back to Jaime after feeding her that bit of misleading hearsay could be the mechanism by which Jaime becomes aware of Roose's words and actions - and it might just start a little rethinking on Jaime's part, perhaps eventually leading to the "contrary to Bolton's interests" thing that I mentioned.

I think Brienne will scream "sword" and the people who are hanging her will bring her to Catelyn. There will be no heart-to-heart talk -- Catelyn is literally incapable of it, both emotionally and physically. She'll speak with Brienne through a translator and inform her about the Roose Bolton comment and what Jaime told Edmure Tully about sending him his baby via a catapult and destroying Riverrun so completely that people in the future will not even realize that a castle once stood in its location. Brienne will not take any of this at face value but she'll begin to doubt -- she decides to go on the mission in order to save her companions, not based on Catelyn's information.

But as she goes on the mission, she'll begin to doubt Jaime more and more -- exactly mirroring Jaime when he began to doubt Cersei more and more based upon what Tyrion told him. Then, she'll start encountering people who'll confirm what Catelyn said about Roose Bolton, probably Freys. Brienne's doubts will grow larger. By the time she confronts Jaime, she'll pretty much believe he's guilty and confront him with the information -- but hesitate in killing him. Jaime himself will confirm that he did say those things but, before he has a chance to fully explain himself, Brienne will be cut down by Jaime's men. Jaime will be left devastated.

[AvengingAryaFan]

As for why Roose went ahead and said what he did when he killed Robb, my own interpretation is that he didn't care very much. He said it, perhaps on a whim, but, in any case, having not put much thought into it. He certainly didn't do it to inform the people there that Jaime Lannister was involved -- that would serve no purpose. And really, it doesn't affect him in any way -- Catelyn will want him dead no matter what he said. Unfortunately, through the most unlikely of scenarios, pure blind luck, and simple misunderstanding, I think what Roose said is ultimately going to spell the end of both Brienne and Jaime.

Roose seems highly intelligent, so I'm not satisfied it was whim or luck. He could hardly fail to realize that the comment was tantamount to announcing Lannister involvement - though he may have incorrectly assumed Jaime's involvement, he apparently knew of Tywin's. That brings us to a wilding's second suggestion (contradicting your position) that he did it to make sure the Lannisters share the blame. That seems most likely, because he seems too smart to fail to realize that would be its effect; which in turn leaves me thinking he's pretty much incurring a debt from the Lannisters, who famously pay them. So I remain perplexed.

But if Tywin wasn't expecting his involvement to be secret then it may have been no big deal to Bolton, just gallows humor. So I waver on that point.

But as she goes on the mission, she'll begin to doubt Jaime more and more -- exactly mirroring Jaime when he began to doubt Cersei more and more based upon what Tyrion told him. Then, she'll start encountering people who'll confirm what Catelyn said about Roose Bolton, probably Freys. Brienne's doubts will grow larger. By the time she confronts Jaime, she'll pretty much believe he's guilty and confront him with the information -- but hesitate in killing him. Jaime himself will confirm that he did say those things but, before he has a chance to fully explain himself, Brienne will be cut down by Jaime's men. Jaime will be left devastated.

I was joking about the heart-to-heart, of course. But I stand by my optimistic guess that Brienne won't make Catelyn's mistake of relying on unreliable words. Sure, she'll be troubled and want to ask Jaime about it, but she won't blindly assume Bolton was conveying an accurate implication. Because, dammit, somebody in this series has to be sensible and not go haring off killing people on false information. It's a thankless job, and Brienne is just the one to do it. Besides, she doesn't merely believe Jaime's innocent: she loves him, and she's not quick to change loyalty.

So I doubt your rather elaborate mini-tragedy, but it seems at least possible. Hmm. We're due for some shocking POV death(s). But Ned's death, for example, set up Robb's entry into the war, which set up the RW that now screams for massive revenge. By contrast, I can't see any plot advancement to be gained from Brienne's death. Even if it set Jaime off to avenge her - the only significant repercussion I can imagine - who would he even go after? Cersei had nothing to do with it, so it doesn't further estrange him from her. Unless he sees Bolton's statement as serious treachery, I can't see it as a compelling reason for jihad against Bolton (nor is Brienne's death necessary if it WAS treacherous). So what would be the larger point of your scenario in this already over-large epic?

Since I can't think of anything, it seems to me Brienne would be more useful continuing to seek Sansa, perhaps leading Sandor to her and making things awkward for LF. So I'll continue to hope for deus ex Sandor as the more interesting and narrative-relevant solution to the cliffhanger, even though it might "cut short" Brienne's dilemma. (But whatever. Good thing Martin is writing this and not me.)

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

But as she goes on the mission, she'll begin to doubt Jaime more and more -- exactly mirroring Jaime when he began to doubt Cersei more and more based upon what Tyrion told him. Then, she'll start encountering people who'll confirm what Catelyn said about Roose Bolton, probably Freys. Brienne's doubts will grow larger. By the time she confronts Jaime, she'll pretty much believe he's guilty and confront him with the information -- but hesitate in killing him. Jaime himself will confirm that he did say those things but, before he has a chance to fully explain himself, Brienne will be cut down by Jaime's men. Jaime will be left devastated.

I like most of this AC. :) I think it'll end a bit differently, because I think Brienne will survive. I think Brienne will confront Jaime, but just as she's about to kill him, she'll throw her sword down, and with nothing remaining to hold her, leave Westeros to join Daenerys' Queensguard.

Either that, or Brienne actually will kill Jaime before she heads to Dany, and Oathkeeper is Lightbringer. :) OR, she'll go to the wall after this (willingly or under sentence) and fight The Others with her prophecied blade.

[Faint]

That brings us to a wilding's second suggestion (contradicting your position) that he did it to make sure the Lannisters share the blame. That seems most likely, because he seems too smart to fail to realize that would be its effect; which in turn leaves me thinking he's pretty much incurring a debt from the Lannisters, who famously pay them. So I remain perplexed.But if Tywin wasn't expecting his involvement to be secret then it may have been no big deal to Bolton, just gallows humor. So I waver on that point.

My problem with attributing any great importance to Roose Bolton's actions in this example is that it's not entirely clear who heard his comment anyway. Certainly some Freys did, and Catelyn herself, but I question whether any other Northerners did apart from Bolton's own men. Besides, the Northerners already think there was Lannister involvement -- there is no need for further confirmation. The only thing the comment did is suggest Jaime Lannister was directly involved and I don't see how that helps Roose Bolton in any way.

I was joking about the heart-to-heart, of course. But I stand by my optimistic guess that Brienne won't make Catelyn's mistake of relying on unreliable words. Sure, she'll be troubled and want to ask Jaime about it, but she won't blindly assume Bolton was conveying an accurate implication. Because, dammit, somebody in this series has to be sensible and not go haring off killing people on false information. It's a thankless job, and Brienne is just the one to do it. Besides, she doesn't merely believe Jaime's innocent: she loves him, and she's not quick to change loyalty. So I doubt your rather elaborate mini-tragedy, but it seems at least possible.

I think you're way too optimistic. It fits the story's narrative. Moreover, as I keep saying in every thread I write in, POVs have to be eliminated. The story has over fifteen right now and the writer has repeatedly stressed, both, that he's going to narrow the scope of the story and that many characters will die. As good of a character as Brienne is, she's surplus to requirements -- she's not important within the greater narrative of the series. Hers is an individual tale within a more vast and interconnected framework.

Hmm. We're due for some shocking POV death(s). But Ned's death, for example, set up Robb's entry into the war, which set up the RW that now screams for massive revenge. By contrast, I can't see any plot advancement to be gained from Brienne's death. Even if it set Jaime off to avenge her - the only significant repercussion I can imagine - who would he even go after? Cersei had nothing to do with it, so it doesn't further estrange him from her. Unless he sees Bolton's statement as serious treachery, I can't see it as a compelling reason for jihad against Bolton (nor is Brienne's death necessary if it WAS treacherous). So what would be the larger point of your scenario in this already over-large epic?

I think this will complete Jaime's transformation. What he'll do after is up to debate but I think primarily, he'll be more disillusioned than ever. That said, I can see a half dozen directions the story might take because of this event. I think the key is the dream he had of his mother -- this, combined with Brienne's death will cause him to take an unexpected route. I think the sword will factor in this as well. I'll suggest here, even though I have no confidence in this suggestion, that he might even take up Brienne's original mission. As for going after Catelyn, actually, the way I imagine it, Brienne won't tell him where she got her information -- she'll spit the information out, then he'll confirm, but she'll die before he gets a chance to explain himself.

I do think eventually he'll kill his sister but that would be the end of his story and I don't think we're there yet.

Since I can't think of anything, it seems to me Brienne would be more useful continuing to seek Sansa, perhaps leading Sandor to her and making things awkward for LF. So I'll continue to hope for deus ex Sandor as the more interesting and narrative-relevant solution to the cliffhanger, even though it might "cut short" Brienne's dilemma. (But whatever. Good thing Martin is writing this and not me.)

I think you have to take into account that there are more than fifteen POVs and three books left. Such a scenario would require making Brienne a huge POV like she was in AFfC for one of the next two books. That just seems totally unlikely. From spoilers I have read, and comments by the writer, it seems her story will not involve a drawn out conclusion. And what's more, Brienne and Jaime are the story, not Brienne and Sansa. Brienne's story has always revolved Jaime, not anyone else, and it will end with him, one way or another.

I like most of this AC. :) I think it'll end a bit differently, because I think Brienne will survive. I think Brienne will confront Jaime, but just as she's about to kill him, she'll throw her sword down, and with nothing remaining to hold her, leave Westeros to join Daenerys' Queensguard. Either that, or Brienne actually will kill Jaime before she heads to Dany, and Oathkeeper is Lightbringer. :) OR, she'll go to the wall after this (willingly or under sentence) and fight The Others with her prophecied blade.

As I've written above, her story has to end, and it has to end soon. Even if she survives, she'll have to fade into the background and she'll certainly lose her POV status. There are too many POVs right now and the story is too expanded. The writer has indicated, repeatedly, that he would fix this situation in the coming books.

Brienne's a great character but she's not all that important within the story's overall plot. Hers is an individual tale within a greater narrative. Finally, her story has always been intertwined with Jaime's. I think it has to end with Jaime as well. So one way or another, the Jaime-Brienne story will reach a conclusion.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I think you have to take into account that there are more than fifteen POVs and three books left. Such a scenario would require making Brienne a huge POV like she was in AFfC for one of the next two books. That just seems totally unlikely. From spoilers I have read, and comments by the writer, it seems her story will not involve a drawn out conclusion. And what's more, Brienne and Jaime are the story, not Brienne and Sansa. Brienne's story has always revolved Jaime, not anyone else, and it will end with him, one way or another.

Brienne's story is of her searching for someone worthy to serve, much like The Hedge Knight/The Sworn Sword (especially interesting if Dunk really is her ancestor).

First, her life surrounds Renly, and being a good knight to him.

Then, she goes into the service of Catelyn Stark. She is Catelyn's sworn sword through most of aCoK and most of aSoS. Somewhere in the middle of aSoS, her allegiance shifts to Jaime. This coincides with her finding out that Catelyn is dead. So, in aFfC, she is a knight in service to both Jaime and Catelyn's memory.

It would totally fit Brienne's character arc to move on to a yet another master (Daenerys). I think she will be justified in doing this either because Jaime will be dead, or because she will be convinced he is not worthy of her.

On top of that, this can be done without including any more Brienne PoV's, and this is what I think will happen. How?

We see Brienne again, next, from a Jaime PoV in which it is hinted that she will be going next to Dany. We will then see her from a Tyrion or Dany PoV when she arrives. At that point, her actions will parallele Dany's and we don't need anymore Brienne PoV.

[Nukelavee]

I don't mind Alleuia's scenario - it fits with the tone of the series.

Having said that - Brienne could just end up returning to Tarth, not likely, but possibly, and just retire.

GRRM might kill her...or he might just stop using her as a POV character.

Either way, I would be happy so long as she gets some kind of fulfillment, that all her endeavours aren't empty and thankless, OR her death isn't just a sidenote, that it has a huge impact on somebody (ie, she doesn't go unnoticed).

For my super long shot prediction - she and Loras end up together, simply out of convenience, create an heir, and then just call this whole game of thrones a big bucket of shit.

[Faint]

@MyDogIsNamedDanerys

Has Brienne ever even heard of Daenerys? And how would she go about finding her since Daenerys is going to be moving soon? And why would Daenerys choose to trust her? Who is going to recommend her?

I understand some of the thematic points you are bringing up but I think you are making her narrative too needlessly complicated. When POVs disappear it's usually because the character dies. In fact, is there any other example where this hasn't been the case?

I just see her story as having three acts. I don't like any scenario where she has another act, especially one not involving Jaime and one where she duplicates Barristan Selmy to some degree. I guess I can entertain the concept of her fading away but I prefer her dying, it would give the story more impact, especially in how it affects Jaime. I think that's also key to all this. Her dying would push Jaime's characterization to new heights.

I know I've been banging on the drum about this entire issue but I have this strong belief that Brienne, Davos, Victarion, and Areo are going to be done as POVs soon and all likely to be dead as well.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I understand some of the thematic points you are bringing up but I think you are making her narrative too needlessly complicated. When POVs disappear it's usually because the character dies. In fact, is there any other example where this hasn't been the case?

...

I know I've been banging on the drum about this entire issue but I have this strong belief that Brienne, Davos, Victarion, and Areo are going to be done as POVs soon and all likely to be dead as well.

Well, Daenerys will need more than 1 knight in her queensguard, so why not Brienne? Obviously there is literally no evidence for it yet. But it's something that I see as being consistent with Brienne's character arc. Why will Dany trust her? Well, if she does kill Jaime, that's a good reason. I think Dany will soon be desperate to find more Westrosi that will support her - especially skilled fighters.

I'm with you 100% on the PoV issue. But I don't see why we need to kill characters to eliminate their PoV's. Whether a PoV can be lost without death is a mostly untested question, because AFAIK, no PoV has yet been eliminated other than Catelyn's... And actually I think Cat's still existing and doing stuff - even if undead - more supports my position than yours on this. Are there others? At any rate, given lack of data, I don't think we can conclude that death is required. We know GRRM has to reduce the # of PoV's and the scope, and I think he'll do this in any way he can on a case by case basis.