DC to reboot pretty much everything in September

[AverageGuy]

Admittedly, I REALLY REALLY want to see Happy Ent's Kellhus-Superman now.

You could try Stormwatch. Midnighter's power is basically to stand on conditioned ground.

[peterbound]

All this thread has done is made me realize how fucking little i care about DC comics. The new superman looks fucking idiotic.

[Sci-2]

You could try Stormwatch. Midnighter's power is basically to stand on conditioned ground.

But only as a tree warring for space. HE promised a Superman that would be able to make Batman his Proyas...

[peterbound]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32748

And now Constantine is in regular continuity? Fuck this bullocks. I'm taking all DC titles (minus Vertigo) out of my wednesday box.

[red snow]

You could try Stormwatch. Midnighter's power is basically to stand on conditioned ground.

I forgot his power is essentially the same as early Kellhus. That would be a cool tweak to Midnighter's power if he applied his "best possible outcome" routine to situations other than combat.

I wish we'd thought of this before the Bakker interview. It would have been fairly leftfield and bakker would have either outright dismissed it or write an essay about what superhero comics are really about.

I heard Mark Charan Newton's new book is his fantasy take on superheroes.

Travelling back to my parents this week. It's going to be a painful visit to my local comic book store as there's going to be some cancelling.

[Galactus]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32748

And now Constantine is in regular continuity? Fuck this bullocks. I'm taking all DC titles (minus Vertigo) out of my wednesday box.

Constantine has always been a part of the DCU, just sort of to the side (just like Sandman) he first showed up in Swamp Thing and was involved indirectly in Crisis on Infinite Earths, he's been together with Zatanna...

[peterbound]

Constantine has always been a part of the DCU, just sort of to the side (just like Sandman) he first showed up in Swamp Thing and was involved indirectly in Crisis on Infinite Earths, he's been together with Zatanna...

I realize that, just pisses me off they are putting him on a fucking team. A team? Really. Don't they know everyone Constantine touches dies?

And the Sandman/Swamp Thing continuity was muddy at best in the beginning. Moore and Gaiman did as best they could to sever those ties.

[Galactus]

I realize that, just pisses me off they are putting him on a fucking team. A team? Really. Don't they know everyone Constantine touches dies?

And the Sandman/Swamp Thing continuity was muddy at best in the beginning. Moore and Gaiman did as best they could to sever those ties.

Eh, no?

Swamp Thing was ALWAYS in the DCU and very clearly so. He was never separated throughout Moore's run and constantly made references to/ran into DC characters. Swamp thing is and always was a DC character (rather obviously, because well, that's how he was created and this was before anyone even had the notion of separating the two)

Constantine is a better example of someone who started out in the DCU (mainly in Swamp Thing, but he's made occasional appearances since, Books of Magic, Sandman, etc.) while his own series pretty much takes place in it's own little bubble.

Sandman OTOH could have been set in it's own universe, but Gaiman deliberately *diddn't* Superman is in it, Martian Manhunter is in it, Element Girl is in it, he didn't do that becuase he had to but becuase he wanted to. He wante to tell his own story (and he did) but he kept making little references back to the main DCU throughout.

And you did see what his team was like, right? Most of them are in the same "borderline" territory as Constantine himself.

[haLobEnder]

I think it's kinda' cool that they're incorporating the Wildstorm characters into the new DCU. I sort of wish they had a book focusing on the Gen13/DV8 bunch though -- never was a huge fan of either group, but Brian Wood's recent miniseries on the latter makes me want to see more.

[peterbound]

Eh, no?

Swamp Thing was ALWAYS in the DCU and very clearly so. He was never separated throughout Moore's run and constantly made references to/ran into DC characters. Swamp thing is and always was a DC character (rather obviously, because well, that's how he was created and this was before anyone even had the notion of separating the two)

Constantine is a better example of someone who started out in the DCU (mainly in Swamp Thing, but he's made occasional appearances since, Books of Magic, Sandman, etc.) while his own series pretty much takes place in it's own little bubble.

Sandman OTOH could have been set in it's own universe, but Gaiman deliberately *diddn't* Superman is in it, Martian Manhunter is in it, Element Girl is in it, he didn't do that becuase he had to but becuase he wanted to. He wante to tell his own story (and he did) but he kept making little references back to the main DCU throughout.

And you did see what his team was like, right? Most of them are in the same "borderline" territory as Constantine himself.

Swamp thing dropped the comic code pretty early on. Not many characters from the DCU would have been allowed to migrate into that side of the world during that time. I'll have to go back and read the graphic novels to actually see the many references you point out (as i don't believe you)

Constantine just doesn't work in the main stream continuity. Bringing him back and making him a part of it is just another fucking gimmick stacked on top of another fucking gimmick. Pisses me off.

I realize that some of the characters can be considered DCU, but the connection is tenuous. Don't you think the Endless would have more of an impact that thy do in the DCU if that was the case? They bring them around when they want to sell some comics and forget all the muddled connection.

[Galactus]

Swamp thing dropped the comic code pretty early on. Not many characters from the DCU would have been allowed to migrate into that side of the world during that time. I'll have to go back and read the graphic novels to actually see the many references you point out (as i don't believe you)

Everyone was dropping the comics-code at the time (though Swamp Thing tied it to a rock and threw it down a well) Superman, Lex Luthor, Batman, the Fluoronic Man, Adam Strange and multiple others play a role in Swamp Thing during Moore's run. He has a tie-in to Crisis on Infinite Earths!

And mind, I probably miss half of them because I'm not very good with DC canon.

(Fluoronic Man of course is a villain during the early parts of the run, Luthor is what zaps Swampy out into the cosmos for a trippy "being raped by a robot" bit) Batman is there to defend Abby when she's charged with unnatural acts for having sex with Swamp-thing (pointedly noting that a certain alien is married to an earthwoman) in the cosmos thing he meets Adam Strange (one of the worlds he jumps to is Rann) and the Crisis on Infinite Earths tie-in includes John Constantine and Zatanna during the entire "parliament of trees" thing.

EDIT: i also seem to remember Deadman running around, but I don't know what he actually did or why, was a while since I read the story.

[Nephrite]

I think it's kinda' cool that they're incorporating the Wildstorm characters into the new DCU. I sort of wish they had a book focusing on the Gen13/DV8 bunch though -- never was a huge fan of either group, but Brian Wood's recent miniseries on the latter makes me want to see more.

Yeah, that was great, except it really felt like the beginning of a regular series than just a mini.

[red snow]

Yeah, that was great, except it really felt like the beginning of a regular series than just a mini.

It sounds as though Brian Wood pitched quite a lot of ideas to DC and he wound up with zilch. It may explain why he's finishing up his vertigo stuff and probably waving good bye to DC. It sounds as if a lot of writers were kept in the dark as to whether they were even going to be on a title.

Peter Milligan gave a fairly good defense of the DCU Constantine character. It's odd that he's writing both versions but maybe that's for the best in a weird way?

Had a hour long chat with my Local comic store owner about DC. He's worried as DC is his big seller (his Marvel sales have dwindled over the years bit this is maybe a Cumbria specific phenomenon) and he's a) pissed off that the DC issues leading up to the revamp are being considered filler by his customers and is B) hoping that DC provides him with some good incentives to help him push the relaunch too. Basically he'd be happy to order with confidence if they provided a returnability clause on the first 3 issues of the titles - that way the risk isn't being placed entirely on his end and he feels if DC are confident in the relaunched titles they shouldn't have to worry too much. As it's the backbone of his sales, he really wants it to work and in general customers are expressing an interest in checking out some titles once they have more info on them. He's scratching his head at how to promote 52 issues 1s in a month though.

He was happy about hearing that DC are being super strict on comic deadlines for the realunch in that they are now placing checks where they can get a fill-in artist on pronto as soon of signs of lateness show. His logic is basically he'd rather have a solid artist selling 20 copies a month 12 times a year than an "A lister" putting selling 40 copies 2-3 times a year.

I still felt bad when I cancelled by Superman and Batman titles though. Credit to him he didn't blame me for doing so and when I tried placing an order for the Ultimates annual relaunch he told me not to bother as there'll be plenty on the shelves given recent history. It's probably why I happily except his recommendations when he makes them as his stance is that he never tries to sell comics he feels are crap [although he'll let you buy them if you really want them]

[Nephrite]

It sounds as though Brian Wood pitched quite a lot of ideas to DC and he wound up with zilch. It may explain why he's finishing up his vertigo stuff and probably waving good bye to DC. It sounds as if a lot of writers were kept in the dark as to whether they were even going to be on a title.

Ah, the time-old question. Great creators with unique voices or company yes men?

This round goes to the latter, I think.

Peter Milligan gave a fairly good defense of the DCU Constantine character. It's odd that he's writing both versions but maybe that's for the best in a weird way?

I really have no problem with Constantine being in the regular DC Universe. It's where he started, and probably where he would've appeared from time to time if Vertigo didn't start acting like they own the place. :D

And the whole concept of multiple versions of the same character ain't that complicated. Multiverse, kids!

He was happy about hearing that DC are being super strict on comic deadlines for the realunch in that they are now placing checks where they can get a fill-in artist on pronto as soon of signs of lateness show.

Boy, I hope this works. It would be weird if Fury of Firestorm has 9 issues and Batman has 3.

[red snow]

Ah, the time-old question. Great creators with unique voices or company yes men?

This round goes to the latter, I think.

Boy, I hope this works. It would be weird if Fury of Firestorm has 9 issues and Batman has 3.

The line-up of writers isn't that awe-sinspiring. Jeff lemire stands out but mainly in terms of "next big thing" rather than "the big thing". Paul Cornell is solid but has been given fairly "expendable" books (although I hope stormwatch turns out to be a core title). The rest are fairly meh and I have to wonder what else is being hidden by Morrison as it seems very odd that he's only writing one title. When will the multiverse thing he's been working on be announced?

In terms of the "lateness" policy there are exceptions to the rule, mainly Jim Lee and David Finch. That's a shame as they are the two most likely to be late. I still like Jim Lee's art but I'm not touching anything by him other than in trade format now. Does anyone seriously expect Justice league to get to issue 3 before April next year?

There should defintely be some kind of sweepstakes for what numbers titles will be on by September 2012. I suspect at least half of them will fail to make it to issue 12 (either through cancellation or lateness)

[Nephrite]

The line-up of writers isn't that awe-sinspiring.

The line-up sucks.

It's a bunch of no-names like J.T. Krul, who has some of the worst stuff ever under his belt, or a bunch of untested artists writing high-profile books.

The rest are fairly meh and I have to wonder what else is being hidden by Morrison as it seems very odd that he's only writing one title.

Well, lets hope that he's working in advance on his Batman stuff.

When will the multiverse thing he's been working on be announced?

Ah, who knows? Each issue is by a different artist and one of them is Quitely so... in the future?

In terms of the "lateness" policy there are exceptions to the rule, mainly Jim Lee and David Finch. That's a shame as they are the two most likely to be late. I still like Jim Lee's art but I'm not touching anything by him other than in trade format now. Does anyone seriously expect Justice league to get to issue 3 before April next year?

There should defintely be some kind of sweepstakes for what numbers titles will be on by September 2012. I suspect at least half of them will fail to make it to issue 12 (either through cancellation or lateness)

A lot of this guys are slow. Kenneth Rocafort coudn't finish his first issue of Action Comics without another artists helping out and we should expect him to finish that and the immediately jump on that Red Hood book?

I'd like to think DC planned this, but...

And Jim Lee still has that Batman book to finish <whistles>

Anyway the solicits are up.

I'll be reading:

Justice League - Well, I'll try it. Geoff Johns didn't write anything compelling in a while and I don't expect him to start now. His special brand of blunt meta-obvious just doesn't work for me.

Action Comics - Cause , it's Morrison on Superman and he gets my blind trust on this one.

Superman - Oh what the hell, how bad can it be? Written by a guy close to his retirement trying to reinvigorate a character for the 21st century? Yeah.

Superboy & Supergirl - Well, the one thing from Lobdell I read I liked, so I'll give it a try. And sice I'm reading all the other Super-titles I might as well try Supergirl.

Justice League Dark - Cause I try anything Pete Milligan because of Shade The Changing Man.

Suicide Squad - Cause I'm curious how this will work. Really.

Aquaman - No, just kidding. I'm not getting this, it's Aquaman.

All the otther stuff I'm getting is Vertigo books that I'm already reading like Scalped, Unwritten & iZombie.

[haLobEnder]

The one's I'm thinking about picking up:

Justice League Dark - Not really a fan of integrating the Vertigo characters back into the DCU proper but at least it's being handled by someone with a history with the Vertigo line.

Animal Man - Won't lie, Lemire's the big selling point here.

Frankenstein, AGENT OF S.H.A.D.E. - Another Lemire book, but this one I wasn't too interested in until I saw the cover. Looks like it will be a fun, quirky type book.

Demon Knights - Wasn't even considering this book until I checked out the solicits. It sounds like it will be relatively self-contained as it takes place in medieval Europe, and it stars Madame Xanadu whose vertigo series I quite enjoyed. Looks like the type of book that will be canceled early on though...

Blackhawks - The solicits for this one were quite vague about what characters were involved, but one of the characters on the cover looks suspiciously like Gen 13's Rainmaker with an eyepach. Is this a team with a history in the DCU?

Suicide Squad - I've heard good things about the original series so I might as well check this one out. The Harley Quinn redesign is, er... interesting :P

Other's I'm mildly curious about:

Stormwatch, Teen Titans, Voodoo, Grifter, Red Hood and the Outlaws, I Vampire, Resurrection Man and Legion Lost

[Sci-2]

The one's I'm thinking about picking up:

Justice League Dark - Not really a fan of integrating the Vertigo characters back into the DCU proper but at least it's being handled by someone with a history with the Vertigo line.

Animal Man - Won't lie, Lemire's the big selling point here.

Frankenstein, AGENT OF S.H.A.D.E. - Another Lemire book, but this one I wasn't too interested in until I saw the cover. Looks like it will be a fun, quirky type book.

Demon Knights - Wasn't even considering this book until I checked out the solicits. It sounds like it will be relatively self-contained as it takes place in medieval Europe, and it stars Madame Xanadu whose vertigo series I quite enjoyed. Looks like the type of book that will be canceled early on though...

Blackhawks - The solicits for this one were quite vague about what characters were involved, but one of the characters on the cover looks suspiciously like Gen 13's Rainmaker with an eyepach. Is this a team with a history in the DCU?

Suicide Squad - I've heard good things about the original series so I might as well check this one out. The Harley Quinn redesign is, er... interesting :P

Other's I'm mildly curious about:

Stormwatch, Teen Titans, Voodoo, Grifter, Red Hood and the Outlaws, I Vampire, Resurrection Man and Legion Lost

Thanks for this list, I haven't kept track of everything but the stuff you point out is stuff I'm definitely interested in.

Still think Grant Morrison needs his own DCU, maybe bring Peter Milligan along for the ride.

DC needs to bring back Else Worlds just so they can give authors free reign and limit the damage of their worst ideas - Green Arrow being a murderer, the rape of Sue Dibny, etc.

[Sci-2]

The one's I'm thinking about picking up:

Justice League Dark - Not really a fan of integrating the Vertigo characters back into the DCU proper but at least it's being handled by someone with a history with the Vertigo line.

Animal Man - Won't lie, Lemire's the big selling point here.

Frankenstein, AGENT OF S.H.A.D.E. - Another Lemire book, but this one I wasn't too interested in until I saw the cover. Looks like it will be a fun, quirky type book.

Demon Knights - Wasn't even considering this book until I checked out the solicits. It sounds like it will be relatively self-contained as it takes place in medieval Europe, and it stars Madame Xanadu whose vertigo series I quite enjoyed. Looks like the type of book that will be canceled early on though...

Blackhawks - The solicits for this one were quite vague about what characters were involved, but one of the characters on the cover looks suspiciously like Gen 13's Rainmaker with an eyepach. Is this a team with a history in the DCU?

Suicide Squad - I've heard good things about the original series so I might as well check this one out. The Harley Quinn redesign is, er... interesting :P

Other's I'm mildly curious about:

Stormwatch, Teen Titans, Voodoo, Grifter, Red Hood and the Outlaws, I Vampire, Resurrection Man and Legion Lost

Thanks for this list, I haven't kept track of everything but the stuff you point out is stuff I'm definitely interested in.

Still think Grant Morrison needs his own DCU, maybe bring Peter Milligan along for the ride.

DC needs to bring back Else Worlds just so they can give authors free reign and limit the damage of their worst ideas - Green Arrow being a murderer, the rape of Sue Dibny, etc.

[Nephrite]

Blackhawks - The solicits for this one were quite vague about what characters were involved, but one of the characters on the cover looks suspiciously like Gen 13's Rainmaker with an eyepach. Is this a team with a history in the DCU?

Yeah, they were World War II pilots.