NFL Regular Season Mk.III

[Selmy]

It doesn't seem to be on the internet yet, but Vick's post game whining made me laugh (and not just for the poor grammer).

He's just a punk.

[Bronn Stone]

Vick absolutely has a point. When he is in the pocket, the refs do not give him the same protection they give other quarterbacks.

[Selmy]

Vick absolutely has a point. When he is in the pocket, the refs do not give him the same protection they give other quarterbacks.

Point being, even if you think you have a legitimate grievance against a specific ref, refs in general, or NFL rules, you don't whine about it during a post-game press conference.

I hope they fine him.

[The Dude]

I'd just point out that Brady's bad game included going 30/45 for 387 yards with 4 TDs. The 4 picks were an extreme aberration for him and realistically, only 2 were really his fault.

I didn't watch the game very closely, but I would question the decision to throw the ball that much once you have such comfortable leads. Whether or not it's Brady's fault, you are still putting the ball in the air way more than should be. I know that Belichick has his own methods, but he just might be the Pats biggest problem over the last several years.

[Bronn Stone]

Point being, even if you think you have a legitimate grievance against a specific ref, refs in general, or NFL rules, you don't whine about it during a post-game press conference.

I hope they fine him.

How many games do you sit through silently before you say something? Five? Ten??? Playing nice hasn't worked so far. Maybe the time has come to get the heads talking about it.

[Selmy]

How many games do you sit through silently before you say something? Five? Ten??? Playing nice hasn't worked so far. Maybe the time has come to get the heads talking about it.

If the GM sends a letter to the NFL asking about hits against Vick, it still would draw a ton of media attention to the issue and have the added bonus of not having Vick come off as a whiner.

[Selmy]

I didn't watch the game very closely, but I would question the decision to throw the ball that much once you have such comfortable leads. Whether or not it's Brady's fault, you are still putting the ball in the air way more than should be. I know that Belichick has his own methods, but he just might be the Pats biggest problem over the last several years.

Fair enough. But when you have a Brady or Manning, I think your offense is almost always going to skew pass heavy. Lawfirm is generally a perfectly fine RB for the Pats needs. He runs north to south, falls forward, and wears out defenses. He was just entirely neutralized today. I would like to know what the deal was with Deion Branch. He didn't do anything all day.

[Bronn Stone]

If the GM sends a letter to the NFL asking about hits against Vick, it still would draw a ton of media attention to the issue and have the added bonus of not having Vick come off as a whiner.

The team has repeatedly complained about hits to Vick and they still keep coming.

It didn't come off as whining to me. Perhaps your perception is more about your own bias. I am not a Mike Vick fan. I am not an Eagles fan. But I DID watch the game and he was getting the crap beat out of him after he threw the ball. He gets hit in the head after throws and doesn't get flags. It is wrong. Something had to be done.

[awesome possum]

Terrible holding call to negate Knox's return at the end of that game. I doubt the Bears could have come back and won it, but you don't kill the team's chances on a very weak touch to the shoulder 30 yards away from the play when neither player has a chance to affect the play at all.

Anyway, there's no putting it on just the o-line anymore. The Bears offense is bad. They only get a positive gain on 1 of every 3 or 4 plays and anyone with common knowledge of football knows that's not going to cut it. Even if that one out of three plays is a big one, it's surrounded by bad plays. So a Johnny Knox 40-yard pass comes in between a run stuff and Knox dropping an easy crucial first down. I've never seen a team so bipolar.

If Cutler is on target with a pass on an important down, the receiver drops it half the time- if he even comes close to catching it in the first place. If the receiver is wide open, Cutler misses a third of the time. If the line provides time in the pocket to throw on one down, they collapse before Forte even touches the hand off on the next.

Doesn't matter if the pieces are good or can be good separately; if they can't work together, they're not a good unit. Hopefully they get better and can get on the same page, but right now they're just not that good. Good enough to put up some points so the defense isn't always on it's heels, but not good enough to take over and win a game on their own.

[Selmy]

The team has repeatedly complained about hits to Vick and they still keep coming.

It didn't come off as whining to me. Perhaps your perception is more about your own bias. I am not a Mike Vick fan. I am not an Eagles fan. But I DID watch the game and he was getting the crap beat out of him after he threw the ball. He gets hit in the head after throws and doesn't get flags. It is wrong. Something had to be done.

I'll freely admit that I don't like Vick because of his whole beats-dogs-to-death thing, but I don't think I'm particularly biased against him. I mean I think I'm able to separate my personal dislike for him from his play and performance.

I'm a Pats fan so I'm used to press conferences and a team where the players repeat the same script weekly and never speak out against the NFL publicly.

I've only watched highlights of the game so far, so I don't really know how hard he was hit. I did however watch his press conference and he definitely seemed like whining to me.

[Bronn Stone]

The Giants blitzed a lot. Most teams blitz Vick a lot. There is a perception he doesn't handle it well. But I believe, as Mike and the Eagles believe, at least part of that perception is a result of the fact that teams get away with more late hits and especially high hits than they would with another QB. Because Mike is elusive does not justify allowing opposing teams to hit him in the head, especially when he is in the pocket. When he is scrambling, I get it. But in the pocket he deserves the same protection other passers get and he is NOT getting it.

[grozeng]

While it was an awesome hit, the helmet-to-helmet blind side hit should have been a penalty on Denarius Moore's TD. It was close to a block in the back but the Jets player turned around at the last second (which led to the helmet-to-helmet hit. It was a great hit though. I can't believe the Jets lost.

[Selmy]

The Giants blitzed a lot. Most teams blitz Vick a lot. There is a perception he doesn't handle it well. But I believe, as Mike and the Eagles believe, at least part of that perception is a result of the fact that teams get away with more late hits and especially high hits than they would with another QB. Because Mike is elusive does not justify allowing opposing teams to hit him in the head, especially when he is in the pocket. When he is scrambling, I get it. But in the pocket he deserves the same protection other passers get and he is NOT getting it.

All the way back during his first years in Atlanta, Vick was known not to be a particularly bright QB. It was said that he couldn't memorize complex play books, analyze defenses, and was far too reliant on his speed and ability to run when things got sketchy, which was likely to get him killed eventually against strong NFL defenses. I don't think putting pressure on a QB that's known to panic is that crazy.

[Bronn Stone]

All the way back during his first years in Atlanta, Vick was known not to be a particularly bright QB. It was said that he couldn't memorize complex play books, analyze defenses, and was far too reliant on his speed and ability to run when things got sketchy, which was likely to get him killed eventually against strong NFL defenses. I don't think putting pressure on a QB that's known to panic is that crazy.

If you think Mike Vick is anything like the person he was in Atlanta, you've pretty much confirmed your own bias.

Even his detractors in the Eagles organization have been pleasantly surprised by his work ethic. In some quarters, his becoming a new man as a result of his prison experience is being overstated. But it is also (perhaps even more often) being understated by those who were most offended by his actions.

I'm not saying there isn't wisdom in blitzing him. He'll tear you apart if you let him sit back. But the technique becomes that much more effective if the officials let his opponents get away with hits to the helmet.

[Lord O' Bones]

I don't think putting pressure on a QB that's known to panic is that crazy.

Of course not. And neither is the ref's calling late or high hits on a QB regardless of how smart the QB is.

Argue the point of contention, not the one in your head.

[Rockroi]

In order for the Pats to have lost this game after being up 21-0, it took a confluence of events that begin and end with one central thought: the Pats D cannot stop anyone. After the Pats' first drive of the second-half, the one that ended in Brady’s 3^rd INT (the one that was actually his fault), the Pats made the Bills punt TWICE! That’s it: appx 30 min of play, two defensive stops. I’m sorry, I know Brady threw 4 picks (one – the one to Gronk –was 100% his fault; two others were deflections which were just dumb luck and one was Chad Ochocinco running a horrible route) and its hard to “explain away” four picks, but holy Hell, can we rent a sack? How about a good old fashioned QB pressure?

When Brady had the pick-six I said in a room filled with people, “I think that’s ball game; the defense can’t stop anyone.” I was aggressively attacked for this. Result: Pats cannot stop anyone, we lose. That's the bottom line: if Brady does not play "lights out", the D is incapable of stopping the bleeding and has been for the last 2 seasons.

With 8 min left the Pats were down by 7 and were about to tie the game when WHAM- Chad drops a gimmie TD (in stride, in his hands, by the way). Not a big deal, right? I mean, the Pats eventually scored on that same drive. Yes. Except that had Chad caught that ball there are 8 minutes left in the game; when the Pats kicked off there were 3:32 left. Huge difference.

Still, when Fred Jackson took the ball and scored an apparent TD, the Pats could have had the ball back with enough time to put a drive together. NOPE! Review ruled that Jackson was down so clock-killing comes into play. Amazing- the Pats D was brutally incompetent for 59 minutes and makes a saving tackle that only helped the other team. THEN when we needed to get the ball back we get an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Great job guys.

The officiating was horrendous- and not just on the phantom penalties (roughing the passer when the guy hit him as the QB was throwing? Really? Because I saw that 28 times on Sunday- it was called once. Defensive pass Interference when the players were in the same area, the defensive player clearly NOT holding the offensive player… and after a Pats INT no less? Great job); they once called the defense for a penalty that was on the offense; at one point they called Logan Mankins for a defensive penalty… when he was clearly on the bench, as he is an offensive player. Just terrible job. (note: I am not saying the Pats lost because of horrendous officiating; I am saying the game was officiated horrendously. These are not the same thing; please take note of that when you attack me).

And yet… all the Pats D had to do was stop the Bills Offense ONCE. Completely incapable of doing that. I know its easy to look at the 4 picks and go “I can see why the Pats lost- Brady threw 4 picks” but it was so much more than that (also putting aside the fact that if Brady is not throwing, the Pats lose this game 45-10; Welker is good for 10 points). The bad play on D is what’s killing this team. I said it last week- the Pats D's “Master Plan” appears to be “Bet Brady scores more.” Yeah. Just that cannot always happen EVERY WEEK! The D is incapable of making a stop; if the Pats fall behind THEY CANNOT WIN! The D cannot STOP a team with the lead. Simple as that. Its really 2010 all over again. Brady will play out of his mind most games; we’ll lose all the others because on games where Brady is not perfect, the D is so abysmal that NOBODY else on the team can make up that difference.

Now with THAT said… we have two major problems: I don’t know what happened to Albert Haynesworth (not mentioned all game) and I know what’s happening to Chad Ochocinco. I am not sure which is worse. All I know was that this was THE game where Chad needed to step up and deliver. Results? Two catches for 28 yards, dropped TD, route that resulted in an INT. Fail.

Other notes:

-I liked how the Bucs controlled the game against the Falcons; just from start to finish they seemed to keep the Falcons off balance and working more. The final act was that the Falcons D jumps off-sides on a play that was clearly designed to work ONLY if the Falcons D jumps off-sides.

-Michael Vick: 3 games, two injuries and a whole lotta bitching. I mean, not as much bitching as I just did with the Pats, but …

-What do you do if you’re a Bengal at this point? Just say “fuck it” and get get high? Ohhh… not so fast.

-Loosing the game sucks for the Broncos; loosing Britt for the Titans is probably worse.

-The Detroit motor-city miracle continues onward and upward. Somebody break up those Lions. Oh, and Vikings fans, sometimes the problem is not just “Childress sucks.”

-Guts comeback by the Saints. They really diod NOT panic at all. I really liked that.

-And in an unprecedented event, the Jets did not, somehow, pull out a win after a string of extraordinary, miraculous events. I am as stunned as everyone else.

-Chargers… remember last season where you lead everyone in all offensive and defensive categories yet still lost a ton of games? Yeah, this season… the exact opposite; you seem to suck but still somehow win.

-Rams: I picked you to win the NFC West. I mean, you still might with Seattle and Arizona doing all they can to both lose today but at least PRETEND to be a pro team.

-Packers are the best team in football by a healthy margin. Today they seemed to dominate an overwhelmed Bears team. Cutler looked okay, but he was sacked within an inch of his life and some really big mistakes cost them. Regardless, Finnley is super-man and the Pack are as good as ever on D.

-And in case my bitterness seems overwhelming, I just want to say that the Bills could have given up out there like 25 times, but they hung tough, played all out every play and then did what they needed to do to win. Yes, some bounces went their way, etc (every team gets bounces), but they played like they were trying to win THE WHOLE GAME. That’s a good team.

I will now stick my eyes in a blender.

[trickster]

Rock, I think now Brady is getting to experience "the Manning: it's all on me and the passing game". If the defense can not stop anyone and you do not have a dependable running game, you will have to take chances.

[Bronn Stone]

-Chargers… remember last season where you lead everyone in all offensive and defensive categories yet still lost a ton of games? Yeah, this season… the exact opposite; you seem to suck but still somehow win.

As this was a game with broad appeal in a small section of Missouri and and even smaller corner of California, you can be forgiven for not having watched this one. The Chargers defense played VERY well. They held the Chiefs without an offensive play of more than four yards in the entire first half. Nor did KC earn a first down in the half. Things opened up a bit in the second half, but the Chargers still were pretty much in control. I thought it a remarkable achievement for a team short three of its four best receivers (Floyd played but was a decoy, Crayton looked rusty and as if he'd been rushed back ahead of being ready). Ryan Mathews is starting to look like a real football player.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Of course not. And neither is the ref's calling late or high hits on a QB regardless of how smart the QB is.

Argue the point of contention, not the one in your head.

I will admit I wasn't watching the hits on Vick closely (watching for the high points for the husband). I tend to pay more attention after I hear a whistle. Also not a Vick fan in general. It took me many years to get over my not liking of Ray Lewis (some days still have some qualms---I don't forget easily)

If I get a chance to see another Eagles game. I will watch closer.

[Rockroi]

As this was a game with broad appeal in a small section of Missouri and and even smaller corner of California, you can be forgiven for not having watched this one. The Chargers defense played VERY well. They held the Chiefs without an offensive play of more than four yards in the entire first half. Nor did KC earn a first down in the half. Things opened up a bit in the second half, but the Chargers still were pretty much in control. I thought it a remarkable achievement for a team short three of its four best receivers (Floyd played but was a decoy, Crayton looked rusty and as if he'd been rushed back ahead of being ready). Ryan Mathews is starting to look like a real football player.

The Chargers beat one of the worst teams in football, at home by 3 points (favored by 14) with the Chiefs loosing their best offensive player for the season the previous week. I stand by my comment.

Rock, I think now Brady is getting to experience "the Manning: it's all on me and the passing game". If the defense can not stop anyone and you do not have a dependable running game, you will have to take chances.

He's been playing in that zone since 2009. He has to win all the games for us; the D is incapable of anything else. That was true in 2009; it was true last season and it will be true until they are eliminated from the playoffs this season. Unless a defensive super-star miraculously appears, the Pats are on a well-rehearsed trajectory.