US Politics - The Nuclear Option goes pfft

[Shryke]

I am of course not FLoW.

But I've always thought this was fairly simple to explain. It's a matter of identifying with someone who one believes has similar interests and beliefs to yours.

The stereotype that most blue collar people have of academics is not just that they "think they are better than average folk" but also that they look down on their pastimes and interests, while wealthy business people may have a lot more money, but they spend that money on what the blue collar people would spend it on if they themselves got wealthy.

In other words, the belief is that the wealthy business people are more likely to be regular churchgoes who prefer beer to wine, enjoy hunting, fishing, NASCAR, football, country music, and TV sitcoms, while having more traditional ideas about gender roles. If they ever do read fiction, it's probably thrillers or (for the women) romance novels. Those academics aren't interested in any of those "regular guy and gal" sort of things, so the blue collar folk can't relate to them.

And there is a kernel of truth to this, after all. The culture of academia is in many ways more different from blue collar culture than the culture of wealthy businessmen is, even though many individuals on both sides don't fit the average stereotypes.

If the average academic got wealthy, they would be less likely to spend their wealth on the 4,200 square foot home with a helipad than the wealthy businessman would. And the 4,200 square foot home with helipad sounds wonderful to the average blue collar person. It's the fact that the helipad would be rejected by the stereotypical academic that makes them less "the salt of the earth" than the sterotypical businessperson.

The wealthy watch polo, not NASCAR.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Michican wipes it's ass with the 4th Amendment

Motorists driving on expressways around Flint are getting surprised by a stunning tactic that the Genesee County sheriff has been using to fight the flow of illegal drugs -- one that legal experts said will not withstand a court challenge.

At least seven times this month, including Tuesday, motorists have said they have seen a pickup towing a large sign on I-69 or U.S.-23 that depicts the sheriff's badge and warns: "Sheriff narcotics check point, 1 mile ahead -- drug dog in use."

The checkpoints are part of a broad sweep for drugs that Genesee County Sheriff Robert Pickell and his self-titled Sheriff's Posse said are needed, calling Flint a crossroads of drug dealing because nearly a half-dozen major roads and expressways pass in and around the city. Pickell said he decided to try checkpoints when he learned that drug shipments might be passing through Flint in tractor-trailers with false compartments.

Yeah, this whole thing with drug and sobriety checkpoints is ridiculous. Worst SC vote Scalia ever cast.

[Shryke]

No, it's not. But at least I'm open about my opinions, rather than patting myself on the back for standing up for "working people" on the one hand, and smugly asserting my superiority over them with the other.

I love how you think this is a distinction that matters.

So the problem, in your mind, is that academics look down on others secretly, not that they look down on them.

So, basically, you believe academics must be just as much snobby assholes as you, but they are only hiding it better.

Have you considered maybe they aren't snobby at all?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

And on a "your tax dollars at work" note, it looks like the whole "nanny-state" thing has gotten pretty literal:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/20/adult-baby-in-california-wins-right-to-social-security-disability-checks/?test=latestnewsI

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

So the problem, in your mind, is that academics look down on others secretly, not that they look down on them.

No, my problem is that they're hypocrites.

So, basically, you believe academics must be just as much snobby assholes as you, but they are only hiding it better.

Except mine isn't class-based snobbery, nor is it based on a belief that being more educated makes one smarter. I'll bet some of those kids down there having their big adventure are from a higher social class than I am, and I know I've read comments from a few Ph.D's down there. I make fun of (some of them) them because they are naive chuckleheads. The ones I don't make fun of are the hard-core lefties who know exactly what this is really about.

Have you considered maybe they aren't snobby at all?

Hmmm. I just did. And decided that I'm probably right. Not that all academics are intellecual snobs. Just a whole lot of them.

[Shryke]

Except mine isn't class-based snobbery, nor is it based on a belief that being more educated makes one smarter.

Well that pretty much sums up everything about you, doesn't it FLOW? :rofl:

Also, seriously, "class-based snobbery"????

The overall median 9 month salary for all professors was $73,000, placing a slight majority of professors among the top 15% of earners at age 25 or older.^[7] Yet, their salaries remain considerably below that of some other comparable professions (even when including summer compensation) such as lawyers (who earned a median of $110,000) and physicians (whose median earnings ranged from $137,000 to $322,000 depending on speciality)

These people are more salt-of-the-earth then you, let alone a CEO pulling down half a million a year or anyone else who qualifies as wealthy.

[awesome possum]

These people are more salt-of-the-earth then you, let alone a CEO pulling down half a million a year or anyone else who qualifies as wealthy.

I think FLoW is feeling particularly trollish today. He's not even trying to argue points, he's just going straight Limbaugh on our asses.

It's either that, or he really is as repugnant as his opinions make him out to be.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I think FLoW is feeling particularly trollish today. He's not even trying to argue points, he's just going straight Limbaugh on our asses.

It's either that, or he really is as repugnant as his opinions make him out to be.

I'll take Door No. 2.

Go back and read some of the Tea Party threads. In light of the reaction here to OWS, they're quite funny.

[alguien]

I'll take Door No. 2.

Go back and read some of the Tea Party threads. In light of the reaction here to OWS, they're quite funny.

You really don't know when you're being self-ironic, do you? :)

[TerraPrime]

[mod hat]

Come on folks. You know the rule: argue the point, not the person. If you're that interested in FLoW, ask him out on a date. Otherwise, let's stick the issues. [/mod hat]

[alguien]

Sorry, I meant that in a light-hearted way. More to the point, I do think we (people in general) have a slight tendency to argue for the people that are protesting causes we believe in, but paint protesters from the other side as barbaric.

There is usually logic to those arguments, too, but there's also a bit of rooting for the "home team" as well. Politics are becoming like sports, and Fox and MSNBC are the new ESPN.

[Shryke]

An elderly black woman in Tennessee can’t vote because she can’t produce her marriage certificate. Threatening letters blanket black neighborhoods warning that creditors and police officers will check would-be voters at the polls, or that elections are taking place on the wrong day. Thirty-eight states have instituted new rules prohibiting same-day registration and early voting on Sundays. All of this is happening as part of an effort to eradicate a problem that is statistically rarer than heavy-metal bands with exploding drummers: vote fraud.

Not only are the stated “anti-fraud” justifications for this new crop of voter restrictions the same as they were in 1890, but the underlying goal of these restrictions is also unchanged: to shape an electorate that will vote for particular kinds of politicians. In a country with hugely shifting demographics, that problem is as urgent as it was a century ago for so-called “reformers.” In the Jim Crow era, the impulse for disenfranchisement came from the Democratic Party, which used new restrictions on black voters to become the Solid South. Today, it is the Republican Party capitalizing on the remnants of Jim Crow to restrict the votes of the poor and minority communities most likely to vote for Democrats. It is the same impulse we see when Rick Santorum says that if Republicans could only eliminate single mothers, more Republicans will be elected. It’s a way of saying some voters simply count more than others. The Constitution is quite clear, at least where race is concerned, that the opposite is true.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2011/10/voter_id_laws_their_proponents_should_have_to_answer_for_the_ugl.2.html

[TerraPrime]

Re: Snobbery

For the record, I don't look down on sports or NASCAR or shopping at WalMart. What I do look down upon are things like this:

We remember when Cale Yarborough and Bobby Allison fought door to door on the track, and then got into a fistfight in the infield after they wrecked. It was one of the great moments in TV and racing. We remember when Nascar racers were real men, aggressively competing bumper to bumper for the win. There are places for women in this world but a Nascar track isn't one of them unless they are dressed like a cheerleader and carrying a trophy. Nascar is a man's sport, driven by men who can aggressively manhandle a car, or at least it was.

It is not that I find people watching fast cars objectionable or worthy of despise. It's the sort of culture that grows up around it wherein casual sexism and racism seem to take root that I find distasteful. In other words, I am not objecting to the sports or the fans - I am objecting to the sexism and racism in their fandom.

But, that's the sort of nuance that I don't expect people not in the intellectual circle be able to distinguish. ;)

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Meanwhile, some of encourage

.

[Paladin of Ice]

Is that any different than what we've seen you do many times in these threads in regards to the unemployed or protesters?

No, it's not. But at least I'm open about my opinions, rather than patting myself on the back for standing up for "working people" on the one hand, and smugly asserting my superiority over them with the other.

mine isn't class-based snobbery

How in the world can most right wing sneers towards the poor be based on anything except class? (Well, and a dash of Social Darwinism).

P.S: Does it strike anyone else as ironic that certain elements of the fringe conservative movement will campaign ceaselessly against evolution while at the same time zealously defending a social system that sometimes comes all too close to being "survival of the fittest"? (Or brightest, or luckiest, or best connected...)

[alguien]

Obama: 'War In Iraq Is Over'; All Troops Will Withdraw By Year's End

"After nearly nine years, the long war in Iraq will come to an end by the end of this year," the president said. President Obama said he talked to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki earlier today and they were both in complete agreement about how to proceed. Obama said that "as promised" by the end of the year all troops will withdraw from the country.

Wow, all troops are being withdrawn. I thought there'd be at least a partial contingent left over.

Well, that's nice.

[TerraPrime]

Obama: 'War In Iraq Is Over'; All Troops Will Withdraw By Year's End

Wow, all troops are being withdrawn. I thought there'd be at least a partial contingent left over.

Well, that's nice.

What about mercenary on U.S. pay?

What will happen to Iraq, then, after the official troop withdrawal?

[TrackerNeil]

You know the rule: argue the point, not the person. If you're that interested in FLoW, ask him out on a date.

Is this likely to happen? If so, I'm going to keep clicking "refresh."

[Paladin of Ice]

But, that's the sort of nuance that I don't expect people not in the intellectual circle be able to distinguish. ;)

Funny you mention nuance, it reminds me of something I heard this morning. The radio was playing a soundbite from a Romney interview with a radio host that came from just before the start of support for the Libya uprising. Romney specifically called Obama "Indecisive, timi, and... nuanced." I kind of had to shake my head at the choice of adjectives.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

What about mercenary on U.S. pay? What will happen to Iraq, then, after the official troop withdrawal?

Don't forget our multi-billion dollar proconsulate Embassy.