A Thread for Small Questions for ADWD III

[Sirielle]

Here is a topic named Fallout at the wall, where you should find answers to your questions (and more questions to seek answerrs ;) ).

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/59254-the-fallout-at-the-wall-part-deux/

Part #2 and I think there are more topics on this subject.

[lostinwesteros]

Here is a topic named Fallout at the wall, where you should find answers to your questions (and more questions to seek answerrs ;) ).

http://asoiaf.wester...wall-part-deux/

Part #2 and I think there are more topics on this subject.

Thank you!

[Lady Blackfyre]

Supposedly, Harrion Karstark is still a prisoner at Maidenpool, right? But who is currently in charge of Maidenpool? Has Lord Mooton been restored afterTarly left?

[Lannister Lion]

I have a small question:

Why does the widow in Volantis change her mind about helping Tyrion and Ser Jorah after the Penny incidence?

Anyone?

[FanTasy]

Anyone?

I was hoping for an answer myself :frown5: . I'll check on that chapter shortly and come back.

[Corvinus85]

Does anyone know the name of the clansman who tried to kill Asha in the battle near Deepwood Motte, and later apologized for calling her a "cunt"?

[Lady Blackfyre]

Does anyone know the name of the clansman who tried to kill Asha in the battle near Deepwood Motte, and later apologized for calling her a "cunt"?

Morgan Liddle, known as Middle Liddle.

“Ned’s girl,” said Morgan Liddle. He was the second of three sons, so the other wolves called him Middle Liddle, though not often in his hearing. It was Morgan who had almost slain Asha in the fight by Deepwood Motte. He had come to her later, on the march, to beg her pardon … for calling her cunt in his battle lust, not for trying to split her head open with an axe.

A Dance with Dragons - The King's Prize

[FanTasy]

Lannister Lion, on 03 February 2012 - 10:19 PM, said: I have a small question:

Why does the widow in Volantis change her mind about helping Tyrion and Ser Jorah after the Penny incidence?

Just read Tyrion VII ADWD. I think she changes her mind after she saw no one helped Penny when the girl was begging for help, desperate and in tears.

Only the landlord reacted, but he was only interested in getting paid for the damage.

The widow looks at Mormont. He is a knight and should protect the weak, she says. But Mormont doesn't react.

Then the widow orders that Penny gets cared for.

She wants Penny - and possibly Tyrion - safe. Volantis is not the safest place for dwarfs, as she says.

The widow is an ex-slave. Her slave tattoos are removed and she tells Tyrion that once she wore chains too.

She wants Tyrion to deliver a message to Dany, that the slaves of Old Volantis are waiting and want her to come soon.

It's a bit murky but this is what I could find regarding her decision to send them away from Volantis and on their way to Dany.

[Lannister Lion]

Lannister Lion, on 03 February 2012 - 10:19 PM, said: I have a small question:

Why does the widow in Volantis change her mind about helping Tyrion and Ser Jorah after the Penny incidence?

Just read Tyrion VII ADWD. I think she changes her mind after she saw no one helped Penny when the girl was begging for help, desperate and in tears.

Only the landlord reacted, but he was only interested in getting paid for the damage.

The widow looks at Mormont. He is a knight and should protect the weak, she says. But Mormont doesn't react.

Then the widow orders that Penny gets cared for.

She wants Penny - and possibly Tyrion - safe. Volantis is not the safest place for dwarfs, as she says.

The widow is an ex-slave. Her slave tattoos are removed and she tells Tyrion that once she wore chains too.

She wants Tyrion to deliver a message to Dany, that the slaves of Old Volantis are waiting and want her to come soon.

It's a bit murky but this is what I could find regarding her decision to send them away from Volantis and on their way to Dany.

Thanks, FanTasy. Yes, it is a bit murky and confused, I think. She was quite angry at Jorah for not helping (him being a knight) and she delibrately sends them to a ship she knows is going to sink so I thought she may be sending them to their death. However, at the same time she tells Tyrion to deliver a message to Dany - I suppose on the off-chance that they may get to Dany? Is it Tyrion that insists Penny comes with them on the ship so the widow was only making plans for Tyrion and Jorah?

[Geoff]

Thanks, FanTasy. Yes, it is a bit murky and confused, I think. She was quite angry at Jorah for not helping (him being a knight) and she delibrately sends them to a ship she knows is going to sink so I thought she may be sending them to their death. However, at the same time she tells Tyrion to deliver a message to Dany - I suppose on the off-chance that they may get to Dany? Is it Tyrion that insists Penny comes with them on the ship so the widow was only making plans for Tyrion and Jorah?

I agree it is a bit murky and I can't say I understand her motivation. However, I don't get your point that she is angry at Jorah for not helping. Helping whom? Penny wanted help killing Tyrion. She was blaming an innocent man for the death of her brother and demanding that he should die because he was the target of her brother's killers. In fact, Jorah did help her by grabbing her and taking the dagger away. He kept her from being a murderer. Then the widow gave her the help she needed after the incident.

The widow certainly didn't like Jorah and didn't wish to help him. Was she trying to help Tyrion reach Dany for reasons of her own? Or perhaps she decided that there were probably others who would kill him if he stayed in Volantis and she saw the possibility of him delivering her message. That is what it sounds like. But I admit that I am not clear on what she is thinking here. I wonder what else was seen by the priest in the flames that she decides not to reveal.

[livewyre]

I was reading feast last night and in a Jaime chapter he finds that Gregor's men left behind at Harrenhall were feeding the captives human flesh. One of the captives was Manderly's son, so do you think that is where Manderly got the idea for frey pie from?

[Lady Octarina]

I was reading feast last night and in a Jaime chapter he finds that Gregor's men left behind at Harrenhall were feeding the captives human flesh. One of the captives was Manderly's son, so do you think that is where Manderly got the idea for frey pie from?

I'm not sure the information could have gotten to Manderly on time (remember the confusing timeline between AFFC and ADWD). It's more likely a macabre coincidence; Manderly could have had the idea simply as a way to punish the Freys (sweet vengeance...), but having no idea the same was done to his own son.

[livewyre]

I'm not sure the information could have gotten to Manderly on time (remember the confusing timeline between AFFC and ADWD). It's more likely a macabre coincidence; Manderly could have had the idea simply as a way to punish the Freys (sweet vengeance...), but having no idea the same was done to his own son.

Yeah I thought the younger Manderly made it home by the time the Frey's left White Harbor on their way to Winterfell. The overlapping times lines are tricky though. Could just be a weird coincidence.

[Darth Vader's Bastard]

Anyone?

I think she can actually see that Tyrion is indeed a decent (and noble) person. Something nobody else in the book can seem to see, save Jon perhaps. The reader is really the only person who knows that Tryion is actually a god guy.

[The Hill That Rides]

I think she can actually see that Tyrion is indeed a decent (and noble) person. Something nobody else in the book can seem to see, save Jon perhaps. The reader is really the only person who knows that Tryion is actually a god guy.

I wouldn't put Tyrion in my good guy bucket, but he certainly is not in my bad dude bucket, and he is most definitely in my drink a beer with the guy bucket.

[Darth Vader's Bastard]

I wouldn't put Tyrion in my good guy bucket, but he certainly is not in my bad dude bucket, and he is most definitely in my drink a beer with the guy bucket.

No matter how you feel about him, you have to admit he is completely misunderstood by 99.999% of the entire world in the book.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I was reading feast last night and in a Jaime chapter he finds that Gregor's men left behind at Harrenhall were feeding the captives human flesh. One of the captives was Manderly's son, so do you think that is where Manderly got the idea for frey pie from?

That I think is a coincidence, just because I'm not sure Manderly had time to learn of it before the wedding feast. But I have two other possible motives:

1. The Rat Cook parable. The Rat Cook violated guest right (same as the Freys) and was punished by having to eat his own children. Manderly punished Freys by feeding them their own kin.

2. Ramsay Bolton left Donella Hornwood, Manderly's cousin, to starve. She resorted to eating her own fingers. Manderly pays the Boltons back by feeding them human flesh.

[Lykos]

@livewyre

I think you could be right, at the last meeting of Davos and Wyman, the Manderlys are celebrating the return of Wylis. But I´m confused about the timeline too. Also I agree with Apple Martini´s points.

A lot of reasons for Frey pie.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

@livewyre

I think you could be right, at the last meeting of Davos and Wyman, the Manderlys are celebrating the return of Wylis. But I´m confused about the timeline too. Also I agree with Apple Martini´s points.

A lot of reasons for Frey pie.

They're celebrating his return, yeah, but that's after he's sent away the Freys, isn't it? He tells Davos they're gone.

Also, it's possible that Wylis didn't know what he was eating. So if he didn't know, he can't tell Manderly and Manderly can't use that as a motive.

[Lykos]

@Apple Martini

Well, they were probably not made into pies yet. The plan definitely was to kill them and was already made by that time. And I hope that Wylis didn´t know, these parts of the story I really don´t enjoy.