Sandor Clegane v. 11

[ICE CROW]

Why would he feel he had to lie if it was truly an accident?

Cus chicks dig scars and the better the story of how you got them the more they dig them :P

[Stark@heart]

I too think the riot opened Sansa's eyes about knights and what they do. She's stunned by the violence that's happening around her but still she focuses on Sandor.

[Candor]

From the very begining the whole series has been bittersweet, i have no doubt thats how everything will wrap up.

Shh, don't harsh the greatness of the Lemon Cake Conspiracy. It is known........you know. ;)

Cus chicks dig scars and the better the story of how you got them the more they dig them :P

Just pictured him inviting her to the "gun show," and it's all your fault Ice Crow. :lmao:

[brashcandy]

I too think the riot opened Sansa's eyes about knights and what they do. She's stunned by the violence that's happening around her but still she focuses on Sandor.

Being a hero is dirty work. Let's hope Sansa takes that lesson to heart when dealing with LF and his plans for Sweetrobin in the Vale.

[Candor]

Sansa, ACoK:

"True knights protect the weak."

He snorted. "There are no true knights, no more than there are gods. If you can't protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can. Sharp steel and strong arms rule this world, don't ever believe anything different."

Sansa backed away from him. "You're awful."

"I'm honest. It's the world that's awful. Now fly away little bird, I'm sick of you peeping at me."

Wordless, she fled. She was afraid of Sandor Clegane... and yet some part of her wished that Ser Dontos had a little of the Hound's ferocity. There are gods, she told herself, and there are true knights too. All the stories can't be lies.

That night, Sansa dreamed of the riots again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces. Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard.

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but anyway... thoughts on this passage?

She goes straight from that encounter with Sandor into a dream about being defenseless and calling for figures who would qualify as "true knight" figures, and receives no aid. Obviously it mirrors what he told her, but in her mind of minds, is she realizing his saying is true, even if it's not what she wants to believe?

Other interpretations?

[ICE CROW]

Shh, don't harsh the greatness of the Lemon Cake Conspiracy. It is known........you know. ;)

Just pictured him inviting her to the "gun show," and it's all your fault Ice Crow. :lmao:

You guys started it, the CROW just comes along and finishes it definitively :)

[Lemon Cake]

I just have to say, it's very disconcerting to walk in on a conversation about lemoncakes and be all, "Wait, wut? Why is everyone talking about me? What did I do now?"

That's not egocentric of me AT ALL i dunno what you're talking about.

[Ednawolf]

Sansa, ACoK:

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but anyway... thoughts on this passage?

She goes straight from that encounter with Sandor into a dream about being defenseless and calling for figures who would qualify as "true knight" figures, and receives no aid. Obviously it mirrors what he told her, but in her mind of minds, is she realizing his saying is true, even if it's not what she wants to believe?

Other interpretations?

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I guess one thing that I think is interesting is that in her dream, nobody came to her rescue. But in real life, Sandor rescued her -- Sandor is her true knight (if only she'd realize that). It's also worth noting that when she awakens from that dream, her moon blood has come and she is now officially a woman by westeros standards. It seems to signify the end of her childish and romanticized notion of a true knight... just as the flowering is the end of her childhood.

[Lemon Cake]

But in real life, Sandor rescued her -- Sandor is her true knight (if only she'd realize that).

To be fair, Sandor needs to help her along with that by not holding knives to her throat, threatening to kill her, taunting her about her father's death, etc. I totally understand why she doesn't think of him as her true knight yet -- and it's not because she's too silly and immature to appreciate him. It's also because he's so often a raging asshole to her.

Sorry, I... get a bit defensive of Sansa on this issue. Ahem.

[Candor]

I just have to say, it's very disconcerting to walk in on a conversation about lemoncakes and be all, "Wait, wut? Why is everyone talking about me? What did I do now?"

That's not egocentric of me AT ALL i dunno what you're talking about.

I feared you might be disparaged, noble Lemoncake. :drunk:

But nope, just another crackpot theory. YOu can totally claim the respect that your name is on it, though.

[Candor]

I agree with what you said Ednawolf, but also think that it wouldn't be logical for Sansa to "realize" this idea at this point in her life. Just as with another point, whether she should have gone with Sandor at the BBB, time is everything. Sometimes you need to let things, and affections, and ideas mature, like good wine.

[Ednawolf]

To be fair, Sandor needs to help her along with that by not holding knives to her throat, threatening to kill her, taunting her about her father's death, etc. I totally understand why she doesn't think of him as her true knight yet -- and it's not because she's too silly and immature to appreciate him. It's also because he's so often a raging asshole to her.

Sorry, I... get a bit defensive of Sansa on this issue. Ahem.

No, you're right... it's easy to forget all of that sometimes. Funny how he can be so gentle with her sometimes and then so cruel at other times.

[Lemon Cake]

No, you're right... it's easy to forget all of that sometimes. Funny how he can be so gentle with her sometimes and then so cruel at other times.

I know, right? He's a walking contradiction around her. I think she just confuses him so much with all the ~feelings she makes him feel. :P

[Ednawolf]

She does seem to overlook his crueler moments and remembers instead how he protected her, kissed her, etc. Even right after the BBB scene w/ the song stealing and knife to the neck, the first thing she does is wrap herself in his cloak once he leaves. It's almost like she unwittingly understands that the cruelty is just a front.

[Candor]

She does seem to overlook his crueler moments and remembers instead how he protected her, kissed her, etc. Even right after the BBB scene w/ the song stealing and knife to the neck, the first thing she does is wrap herself in his cloak once he leaves. It's almost like she unwittingly understands that the cruelty is just a front.

Sansa: The Sandor Whisperer.

[little_horn]

Sansa, ACoK:

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but anyway... thoughts on this passage?

She goes straight from that encounter with Sandor into a dream about being defenseless and calling for figures who would qualify as "true knight" figures, and receives no aid. Obviously it mirrors what he told her, but in her mind of minds, is she realizing his saying is true, even if it's not what she wants to believe?

Other interpretations?

I never thought about that connection, but it does seem funny to me that he says basically that the weak can just die, right after going out of his way to save her, who is weak and needs protecting.

"if you can't protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can" LOL what the hell Sandor???

[Candor]

I never thought about that connection, but it does seem funny to me that he says basically that the weak can just die, right after going out of his way to save her, who is weak and needs protecting.

"if you can't protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can" LOL what the hell Sandor???

Sandor doesn't have time or patience for putting it kindly. :dunno:

Or making any damn sense. :idea:

[Candor]

She does seem to overlook his crueler moments and remembers instead how he protected her, kissed her, etc. Even right after the BBB scene w/ the song stealing and knife to the neck, the first thing she does is wrap herself in his cloak once he leaves. It's almost like she unwittingly understands that the cruelty is just a front.

She knows what matters. After all she is a woman flowered, and not a silly little girl any more.

"I am only a young girl and know nothing of ___" ...... Sansa says bugger that.

[Zmeischa]

I've got another idea about SanSan - I know, it's unlikely, but... and what, if Sandor lied Sansa about history of his scars?

He chose a strange lie, then. Dragonflame would've sounded way cooler :). (Pun unintended).

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but anyway... thoughts on this passage?

It's her unconscious mind confirming the idea she denies but knows to be true. Also, it shows her great fear - to be defenseless and unprotected in face of the danger.

Also Sandor is conspicuous by his absence. Not only he doesn't appear in the dream, though he was there in real life, he is absent from Sansa's thoughts as well. She calls to all sorts of men, people she knows, heroes of ballads - but not to him. She doesn't like the idea of being saved by him, so he is deleted from her dream, but without him she finds herself alone.

It's also worth noting that when she awakens from that dream, her moon blood has come and she is now officially a woman by westeros standards. It seems to signify the end of her childish and romanticized notion of a true knight... just as the flowering is the end of her childhood.

That, too. Good point.

[Candor]

He chose a strange lie, then. Dragonflame would've sounded way cooler :). (Pun unintended).

It's her unconscious mind confirming the idea she denies but knows to be true. Also, it shows her great fear - to be defenseless and unprotected in face of the danger.

Also Sandor is conspicuous by his absence. Not only he doesn't appear in the dream, though he was there in real life, he is absent from Sansa's thoughts as well. She calls to all sorts of men, people she knows, heroes of ballads - but not to him. She doesn't like the idea of being saved by him, so he is deleted from her dream, but without him she finds herself alone.

That, too. Good point.

I really, really like this. Great work.