Sandor Clegane v. 11

[Zmeischa]

Got a funny idea. In the triple sequence of events - he left a cloak, he took a song and a kiss - the kiss is a superfluous element, because it never happened. But if you take a song away, you have a man, who gave her his cloak and kissed her, in other words, married her. Of course, she doesn't really believe herself married to Sandor, and the way she says it, the symbolic meaning is obscured even from her, because the cloak and the kiss never stand together, there is always the song in the middle, but still funny how her mind works. (Or mine, I don't know).

Funnier still, Sandor's mind works quite differently. I'm not sure if he even remembers where he left his cloak, but, anyway, he doesn't speak of it, and when he recalls the scene when he gave her his cloak (for the first time), he doesn't mention it, instead, he say that he stood there in his white cloak. On the other hand, the way he talks about the song, you would believe it was some euphemism for "maidenhead". He boasts that she gave it to him (and angry Arya thinks: "Sansa-would-never!"), then he admits that he took it by force... The way his mind works is also quite interesting, I have to say :D.

[voodooqueen126]

Got a funny idea. In the triple sequence of events - he left a cloak, he took a song and a kiss - the kiss is a superfluous element, because it never happened. But if you take a song away, you have a man, who gave her his cloak and kissed her, in other words, married her. Of course, she doesn't really believe herself married to Sandor, and the way she says it, the symbolic meaning is obscured even from her, because the cloak and the kiss never stand together, there is always the song in the middle, but still funny how her mind works. (Or mine, I don't know).

Funnier still, Sandor's mind works quite differently. I'm not sure if he even remembers where he left his cloak, but, anyway, he doesn't speak of it, and when he recalls the scene when he gave her his cloak (for the first time), he doesn't mention it, instead, he say that he stood there in his white cloak. On the other hand, the way he talks about the song, you would believe it was some euphemism for "maidenhead". He boasts that she gave it to him (and angry Arya thinks: "Sansa-would-never!"), then he admits that he took it by force... The way his mind works is also quite interesting, I have to say :D.

Also the song was religious, somewhat similar to Ave Maria. Something that would be sung at a wedding.

[Candor]

That's it folks, they are married. ;)

Bringing to mind your posts on wardship, voodooqueen, for many cases Sansa's "marriage" with Tyrion could be considered invalid. One, there's her lack of consent. Two: based on Joff's lack of royal blood he should not have been able to dispose of her. Third: her family wasn't attainted if I do remember, so would it not have been up to them, not the "King"?? Four, non-consummation.

So why not would she be free to marry someone else?

[little_horn]

Got a funny idea. In the triple sequence of events - he left a cloak, he took a song and a kiss - the kiss is a superfluous element, because it never happened. But if you take a song away, you have a man, who gave her his cloak and kissed her, in other words, married her. Of course, she doesn't really believe herself married to Sandor, and the way she says it, the symbolic meaning is obscured even from her, because the cloak and the kiss never stand together, there is always the song in the middle, but still funny how her mind works. (Or mine, I don't know).

Funnier still, Sandor's mind works quite differently. I'm not sure if he even remembers where he left his cloak, but, anyway, he doesn't speak of it, and when he recalls the scene when he gave her his cloak (for the first time), he doesn't mention it, instead, he say that he stood there in his white cloak. On the other hand, the way he talks about the song, you would believe it was some euphemism for "maidenhead". He boasts that she gave it to him (and angry Arya thinks: "Sansa-would-never!"), then he admits that he took it by force... The way his mind works is also quite interesting, I have to say :D.

holy mole!!! if you take all the metaphorical images and string them it is like a wedding... mind=blown

[Candor]

holy mole!!! if you take all the metaphorical images and string them it is like a wedding... mind=blown

Seriously, the haters of San-San are going to flip when the realize the sheer epic validity of this.

[voodooqueen126]

That's it folks, they are married. ;)

Bringing to mind your posts on wardship, voodooqueen, for many cases Sansa's "marriage" with Tyrion could be considered invalid. One, there's her lack of consent. Two: based on Joff's lack of royal blood he should not have been able to dispose of her. Third: her family wasn't attainted if I do remember, so would it not have been up to them, not the "King"?? Four, non-consummation.

So why not would she be free to marry someone else?

On the basis of the Cloak and song she could also argue pre-contract with Sandor (arguing that Dontos and Shae where their witnesses) or pre-contract with WIllas.

[Candor]

On the basis of the Cloak and song she could also argue pre-contract with Sandor (arguing that Dontos and Shae where their witnesses) or pre-contract with WIllas.

Haha, I'd love to see everyone's faces if she claimed the first one. :P

[ICE CROW]

Ladies i hate to burst your bubble, but Sandor already has a true love, His horse Stranger is the only one who will ever understand him and love him completely. Against that what chance does Sansa stand.

In all seriousness though that whole cloak theory would be hard to validate, considering Shae and Dontos are both dead.

[Candor]

In all seriousness though that whole cloak theory would be hard to validate, considering Shae and Dontos are both dead.

The devil is in the details.

Ladies i hate to burst your bubble, but Sandor already has a true love, His horse Stranger is the only one who will ever understand him and love him completely. Against that what chance does Sansa stand.

Sansa: *walking along tra la la, goes into a room*

Sandor: Wife.......little bird, uh it's not what it looks like.

Stranger: *neighs*

Sansa: Ugh, men and their horses! Can't believe this!

Sandor: ......

Sansa: Fine, have your little football party, I'll be in the kitchen. Slaving away over a hot stove. *sniff* *leaves*

Clearly she stands no chance!

[FacelessGirl]

:lmao:

[Zmeischa]

In all seriousness though that whole cloak theory would be hard to validate, considering Shae and Dontos are both dead.

In all seriousness, Sandor gave a celibacy vow some time before that :).

Of course, you don't get married every time someone lends you his cloak. Just as in our world you don't marry someone simply by putting their ring on your finger. It's just a symbolic gesture. But this is fiction, so symbolic gestures are meaningful.

[TheWhiteFawn]

''

I guess one thing that I think is interesting is that in her dream, nobody came to her rescue. But in real life, Sandor rescued her -- Sandor is her true knight (if only she'd realize that). It's also worth noting that when she awakens from that dream, her moon blood has come and she is now officially a woman by westeros standards. It seems to signify the end of her childish and romanticized notion of a true knight... just as the flowering is the end of her childhood.

does anyone think its weird that when sansa gets her moon blood (which signifys the end of her childhood and notion of a true knight) that immediately after she sets her bedding on fire.

and that after gregor shoved sandors face in a fire (and destroyed his notion of a true knight), sandors father tell everyone his bedding caught fire.

coincidence?

[Candor]

In all seriousness, Sandor gave a celibacy vow some time before that :).

Of course, you don't get married every time someone lends you his cloak. Just as in our world you don't marry someone simply by putting their ring on your finger. It's just a symbolic gesture. But this is fiction, so symbolic gestures are meaningful.

Celibacy....... bugger that. :rolleyes:

Symbolic gestures rock my world.

[voodooqueen126]

Ladies i hate to burst your bubble, but Sandor already has a true love, His horse Stranger is the only one who will ever understand him and love him completely. Against that what chance does Sansa stand.

In all seriousness though that whole cloak theory would be hard to validate, considering Shae and Dontos are both dead.

Well that's why I picked those two, since they're not alive anymore to complain.

[Candor]

does anyone think its weird that when sansa gets her moon blood (which signifys the end of her childhood and notion of a true knight) that immediately after she sets her bedding on fire.

and that after gregor shoved sandors face in a fire (and destroyed his notion of a true knight), sandors father tell everyone his bedding caught fire.

coincidence?

Sandor got his moon blood, what? ;) I mean I figured he might be PMS-y sometimes, but blame it on the wine! :lmao:

It's an interesting catch, but I'm not seeing what it signifies. Sansa was scared because she knew what having her periods would mean for her in a realistic sense. She could be married off to devil spawn Joffrey or anyone else who wanted her claim. Papa Clegane was trying to cover up the fact that his elder son is a fucking psychopath.

[Zmeischa]

coincidence?

I guess.

But also, I remember, someone in this tread (or the one before that) analyzed Sansa's dream and said that a bed is a symbol of safety and comfort. So, having your bed on fire signifies a loss of this safety. I guess.

[Call me Odie]

Sandor Clegane, he is a true antihero.

[brashcandy]

Also the song was religious, somewhat similar to Ave Maria. Something that would be sung at a wedding.

Finally, the sisters have jumped on the crackpot :P

Also, any holy vows Sandor took on the Quiet Isle would be void because he was "married" and did not have wife's consent, right VQ?

And he refused to become a knight in principle, so I'll bet there's all sort of problems with that KG vow, along with the fact that Barristan was unfairly dismissed, making Sandor's appointment somewhat of a sham.

[Zmeischa]

Also, any holy vows Sandor took on the Quiet Isle would be void because he was "married" and did not have wife's consent, right VQ?

I believe he took no vows. Narbert refers to the "gravedigger" as "the novice", that is someone who is being tried before he is admitted to a religious order. So he intends to become a brown brother, but he isn't one yet.

He took the vows of the Kingsguard, though. But 1) he isn't a knight, so the validity of that can be disproven, 2) he isn't the memeber of the Kingsguard any more.

[brashcandy]

I'm not even going to mention the case for why there might have been consummation in this "marriage" between San/San. Strictly symbolic of course :wideeyed: