Cersei and Jamie are Targaryens

[naik2902]

When the Targs breed outside their family, the Targ traits seem redundant to the dominant traits of other people. The kids look like Lannisters because of their mother. Also note, Tyrion's eyes are flecked with gold like Tywins. This is unlike Cersei and Jaime. Tyrion is Tywin's only true child.

tyrion is good guy. i dont want tyrion to be called as kinslayer. he killed his true father if he is tywins son. he is GRRMs favourite character. i dont think GRRM will do that.

[Where Boars Glow]

if his both parents are lannisters then he should have pure green eyes. i doubt it coz the presence of violet purple(targaryen) pigment in green eyes could make it appear blackkish. i dont know if GRRM learned the genetics or not but this is my calculation.

Well I think there are plenty of Lyssini who have "Targareyen" traits but are not of that house. This has gone into several Westeros families as well. The Daynes, for example. I do believe the Targs were conducting a sort of experiment to mix there blood with other houses.....the end result was suppose to have something to do with bringing dragons back into the world.

We know that Areys had some kind of obsession with Joanna. That Tywin had a major falling out with the crown over it. We know he bares animosity to his children....possibly because he questions there lineage. We know other members of the Lannister family (Tywins sister) have alluded to the fact that one or more of the children may have been from another father. We have Jamie/Cersi/Tyrion all having prophetic type dreams much like Targaryens. Jamie's dreams in particular I believe offer quite a good case for foreshadowing he is not Tywins son. There is also Jamie and Cersi's attraction to each other.

So I am not saying any of this is proof positive....i definitely think there is enough there to suggest at minimum a red herring. However......

eye color is the very least of the textual clues.

[Where Boars Glow]

When the Targs breed outside their family, the Targ traits seem redundant to the dominant traits of other people. The kids look like Lannisters because of their mother. Also note, Tyrion's eyes are flecked with gold like Tywins. This is unlike Cersei and Jaime. Tyrion is Tywin's only true child.

I agree with this....not for the eyes so much as he seems more Tywins ilk then his brother and sister.

[Where Boars Glow]

tyrion is good guy. i dont want tyrion to be called as kinslayer. he killed his true father if he is tywins son. he is GRRMs favourite character. i dont think GRRM will do that.

I'm sorry did you just suggest that George "I will kill every last muther fucker and laugh after" Martin would not have something bad happen to a fan favorite character?

One moment............................Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah

[RhaenysBee]

Perhaps you should read through the thread. There is actually quite a lot to imply Cersei and Tyrion have Targaryen blood.

I refuse to believe any evidence.

[Where Boars Glow]

I refuse to believe any evidence.

How fundamentalist of you :)

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

There are actual things that support this theory? Actors looking similar is not one of them.

yea i was trying to be sarcastic -

about hair :

many of Targs had golden-silver hair (mad kings grandfather Aegon V)

and i couldn't find any mentions of mad kings or Jaehaerys II hair color to confirm or deny this part of theory

[Where Boars Glow]

yea i was trying to be sarcastic -

about hair :

many of Targs had golden-silver hair (mad kings grandfather Aegon V)

and i couldn't find any mentions of mad kings or Jaehaerys II hair color to confirm or deny this part of theory

Sure just saying. Genetics(looks) aside.....I think there is enough "history" told by various characters in text to show that Martin is at least pretending to forshadow the idea that some of Tywins childrens are not his own. My money goes on Cersi and Jamie.

[RhaenysBee]

First, I recomend reading the similtarities in the personality trait of Aerys II compared with Joff and Cercei. Also the coin that the Gods tossed in the air every time a Targ is born, one side madness, the other greatness. Jaime away from Cersei is greatness, her madness. Add Ser Barristan's account of Aerys infatuation with Joanna and "certain liberties" Aerys took at the bedding ceremony. GRRM laid a lot of clues that point in that direction.

I have pointed this out about a million times that there are rational limits. If Brandon Stark goes to KL and screams for the crown prince to come out and die for abducting his sister, Tywin Lannister will just stand and watch as Aerys Targaryen gets inside his wife before him? Doesn't work for my sense of rationalism. Also, taking liberties at the bedding doesn't equal that he bedded the woman himself. The coin and greatness... Joff was born of incest, same as the Targaryens. Maybe the gods have a problem with that and not Targaryens. As for Cersei and Jaime being the two sides of the coin... khm... no...

[RhaenysBee]

How fundamentalist of you :)

It is, isn't it? :DDD

A great achievement of internet was convincing me of R+L=J... but everybody being a Targaryen is a little too much even for somebody who is a total Targaryen supporter like me. So, this one I'll only believe if I see it. And I tend to believe in theories that feed my pinky-cloudy-romatinc appetite. R+L is something like that... But all Lannister kids being Targaryens ruins my romantic image of Tywin and Joanna... No, I'm not narrow minded and easily manipulated... Not at all... Not in the least...

Well, life is full of these little ironies.

- sorry for double posting.

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

It is, isn't it? :DDD

A great achievement of internet was convincing me of R+L=J... but everybody being a Targaryen is a little too much even for somebody who is a total Targaryen supporter like me. So, this one I'll only believe if I see it. And I tend to believe in theories that feed my pinky-cloudy-romatinc appetite. R+L is something like that... But all Lannister kids being Targaryens ruins my romantic image of Tywin and Joanna... No, I'm not narrow minded and easily manipulated... Not at all... Not in the least...

Well, life is full of these little ironies.

- sorry for double posting.

hmm im Targ hater - i like many Targs but i never cared for Dany/Viserys crew

but i agree with you secret Targs are frustrating part of internet

however it doesnt change story for me if Jaime is a Targ he is kinslayer like his half-brother Tyrion

and except for cheap joke in the face of already dead Tywin it doesn't really add anything for me

(im not saying theory is right/wrong - it just won't change anything )

[IRON BANK]

I took the story more to mean that, the king wanted Tywins wife, and since he couldn't have her at the bedding he waited for a more convenient time, leading possibly to Tyrion. This leading to Tywins constant animosity towards Tyrion. Tywin may be cruel but seems somewhat of a rational person. For instance Jaime joins the kings guard which means he cant father any children. If your Tywin you marry Tyrion to a noble and then once Tyrion has a son you kill Tyrion. That is Tywin we know he is ruthless and would do this in a heart beat. However if Tyrion is not his son or their is a doubt Tywin wont let Tyrion near CR in any shape or form and that is what Tywin does.

[Nausicaä]

tyrion is good guy. i dont want tyrion to be called as kinslayer. he killed his true father if he is tywins son. he is GRRMs favourite character. i dont think GRRM will do that.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

"GRRM wouldn't do that".. yes, he would. There would be poetic symmetry between the Lannister boys if either theory is true (if Aerys is Jaime's father, both of them killed their own father; if Aerys is Tyrion's father, they have killed each other's fathers), but it would be just like GRRM to not only avoid justifying Tyrion's kinslaying with "he didn't really kill his own father", but to make Jaime a kinslayer as well as kingslayer, as the cherry on top of the fucked-up cake.

Also, Tyrion will always be called a kinslayer. He may be GRRM's favorite character, but he chose to write that bit in and in-universe Tyrion won't get a free pass for it even if A+J=T is true and he finds out. That's not the way Westeros works and most people in it won't ever love Tyrion or try to excuse him his real or perceived misdeeds. Even if he gets a dragon, even if he gets a position as the future king/queen's adviser, even if he wears nothing but red and black for the rest of his life in his attempts not to be seen as Tywin's son. It gives me great joy to say that he will be even more hated if he comes back to Westeros with a MMD and mercenary armies.

[Danielsnag]

Tyrion is absolutely Tywins son. Having him as a Targ would be too perfect.

Jamie and Cersei could work, but I doubt it. I think it would be interesting for Jamie to be both a Kingslayer and a kinslayer. His father, no less.

[RhaenysBee]

hmm im Targ hater - i like many Targs but i never cared for Dany/Viserys crew

but i agree with you secret Targs are frustrating part of internet

however it doesnt change story for me if Jaime is a Targ he is kinslayer like his half-brother Tyrion

and except for cheap joke in the face of already dead Tywin it doesn't really add anything for me

(im not saying theory is right/wrong - it just won't change anything )

I quite agree. There is no point in a twist like this... a slap on the face to Tywin, who is already dead, so what? And it's so not stylish to humiliate a character he already killed off. And yeah, I agree with the kinslaying too... Jaime will just never be free of killing Aerys, king or kinslaying, he'll never wash it off and that is only fair like that.

[Ser Luke.]

*reads thread title*

No. No they are not.

[Myvince]

Tywin ordered his mens to kill the Targaryens kids, not because Robert had win the trone but more for a personal vendetta. Jaime and Cersei might be targaryen or aleast one of them.

[Where Boars Glow]

It is, isn't it? :DDD

A great achievement of internet was convincing me of R+L=J... but everybody being a Targaryen is a little too much even for somebody who is a total Targaryen supporter like me. So, this one I'll only believe if I see it. And I tend to believe in theories that feed my pinky-cloudy-romatinc appetite. R+L is something like that... But all Lannister kids being Targaryens ruins my romantic image of Tywin and Joanna... No, I'm not narrow minded and easily manipulated... Not at all... Not in the least...

Well, life is full of these little ironies.

- sorry for double posting.

Thats ok I have a total and irrational hatred of Rheagar that no one will ever break me of. Maybe I just hate love :)

[LaylaC]

I don't know if this have been mentioned before, it's a bit crackpot:

If the twins were Aerys' then it would give a whole new level to Tywins actions at RR.

He didn't take part in destroying the Targaryens (apart from being an opportunistic) in the battle field because he needed all his strength and the trust of Aerys to enter KL before anybody else. Also because he needed to be there just in the correct time.

He wanted to kill Aerys before he could tell anybody that he was the father of Jaime and Cersei and humiliating him. You all know how Tywins pride works..

This was not only for shutting the Kings mouth forever in the best and more profitable situation but a revenge against him and his family.

Something that always bothered me is that though he was said to love his wife and "obey" her somewhat... He seems to hate Cersei or at least don't consider her nothing more than a tool.

Maybe he sees Aerys in her... A mad queen. Too stupid to rule efficiently.

Other thing that I didn't understand is that if he already had Jaime-the-perfect-son (before being selected for the KG), why did he hate Tyrion so much? I think it has more sense if Tyrion was his ONLY son.

[RhaenysBee]

Thats ok I have a total and irrational hatred of Rheagar that no one will ever break me of. Maybe I just hate love :)

That's just fine. I have irrational hatred for certain characters too and I guess it's just natural like that. What I hate is when people try to force their opinions on me and they even do so by telling that my opinion is shitty and theirs is right. I mean, WHY? We are different and have different subjective and irrational emotions towards different characters. So why try to reason with me, who just can't stand Stannis that Stannis is an awesome guy and I'm a piece of shit not to like him? I mean it won't change my opinion xD Yeah, this is a little hypocritical because I myself always fly at people's throat when they go on about what a sociopath, psychopath, bastard, scumbag rapist, barbarian mass murderer Drogo is. But hereby I solemnly promise I'll try to be more tolerant towards Drogo-haters. :"D

On topic: I guess it really depends on whether you like Lannisters and Targaryens or not. I mean the fact that you believe this theory is what depends on that. Because, say I like Cersei and I like the Targaryens, so how cool would it be if Cersei was a Targaryen? But since I don't like either Cersei or Jaime, but I like Targaryens, for me it wouldn't be so cool x"D But, we'll see