Small Questions XIII

[Serie]

Are TPTWP prophecy and the Azor Ahai prophecy the same thing? Like they are one prophecy?

As far as I'm aware, there is no indication that these two prophecies refer to the same person.

edit: still the contrary is a very popular opinion.

[Lady of Long Lake]

In AGOT after the kids found the dead direwolf:

"A foot of shattered antler, tines snapped off, all wet with blood.

A sudden silence descended on the party. The men looked at the antler uneasily and no one dared to speak. Even Bran could sense their fear, though he did not understand"

Why are the men so spooked? Us readers see the symbolism in that scene, especially after finishing the first book. But are those men thinking the same thing @ Baratheons causing the death of Starks? I guess I'm skeptical that they saw the symbolism because why would Ned have taken the job as Hand with such a blatant warning? And did Bloodraven stage that scene to warn Ned?

[corbon]

In AGOT after the kids found the dead direwolf:

"A foot of shattered antler, tines snapped off, all wet with blood.

A sudden silence descended on the party. The men looked at the antler uneasily and no one dared to speak. Even Bran could sense their fear, though he did not understand"

Why are the men so spooked? Us readers see the symbolism in that scene, especially after finishing the first book. But are those men thinking the same thing @ Baratheons causing the death of Starks? I guess I'm skeptical that they saw the symbolism because why would Ned have taken the job as Hand with such a blatant warning? And did Bloodraven stage that scene to warn Ned?

They'll see some symbolism. Their Sigil, a Direwolf something not seen south of the wall for decades, found dead. Troubling...

I'm not sure if the antler tines symbolism hits them or not - probably not as you say, or Ned would have at least thought about it when thinking whether to take the job of Hand. I think he would have taken it anyway - his friend Robert needed him and loyalty is an important concept for Ned. But perhaps he would not have taken his kids.

But perhaps some of them thought about the antler symbolism when the looked at it, just not Ned. Or they were just looking at how this enormous legendary wolf died.

[Ladywhiskers]

They'll see some symbolism. Their Sigil, a Direwolf something not seen south of the wall for decades, found dead. Troubling...

I'm not sure if the antler tines symbolism hits them or not - probably not as you say, or Ned would have at least thought about it when thinking whether to take the job of Hand. I think he would have taken it anyway - his friend Robert needed him and loyalty is an important concept for Ned. But perhaps he would not have taken his kids.

But perhaps some of them thought about the antler symbolism when the looked at it, just not Ned. Or they were just looking at how this enormous legendary wolf died.

I think they're all fully aware of the symbolism. It's not lost on them that the stag is the Baratheon sigil. The broken antler through the neck does hit them, like a hammer. But saying anything out loud about it would probably make it worse. They are afraid to speak--that says volumes. The antler fills them with dread precisely because of what the symbolism implies about their relationship with the King.

So, Ned knows from the very start that the Baratheons are going to somehow be the death of him. But how is Ned to know whether he'd get the antler for refusing the job, or as a result of taking it? He'll get the antler through the neck from a Baratheon--but which one? It could as easily be Stannis or Renly as Robert, when the story opens. And from Ned's standpoint, now that the thing is omened, is there any point in trying to escape that fate?

Ned is the sort of person who will do the right thing no matter what, so I don't think .

[LuisDantas]

And there is always the possibility that Ned isn't big about worrying with supposed omens.

Such people exist, you know. He doesn't seem to particularly believe Jon Snow's line about the direwolves being "meant" for his children either. Although I am sure he is impressed by the scene; finding a direwolf under any circunstances is exceedingly rare, after all, and it _is_ their sigil.

[Aegon I]

:agree:

[Wightman]

And there is always the possibility that Ned isn't big about worrying with supposed omens.

Such people exist, you know....

You mean Ned isn't a member of these forums?!!? ;)

[Buckwheat]

I believe they just felt uncomfortable because nobody has seen a direwolf south of the Wall for the last I-do-not-know-how-many years, so they sensed some kind of danger solely because of that. It showed that Winter is coming, somehow.

[Fire Princess Arianne]

I'm new here, but I wanted to add a thought.

In AGOT after the kids found the dead direwolf:

"A foot of shattered antler, tines snapped off, all wet with blood.

A sudden silence descended on the party. The men looked at the antler uneasily and no one dared to speak. Even Bran could sense their fear, though he did not understand"

Why are the men so spooked? Us readers see the symbolism in that scene, especially after finishing the first book. But are those men thinking the same thing @ Baratheons causing the death of Starks? I guess I'm skeptical that they saw the symbolism because why would Ned have taken the job as Hand with such a blatant warning? And did Bloodraven stage that scene to warn Ned?

Obviously the peoples of this world, much like those of our own ancestors, are a very superstitious lot. To me, the fact was not so much that the Direwolf was killed by the Stag, but that the were BOTH dead.....and only the 'pups' of the wolf survived.

Actually, to this point...only some of the pups have survived.

I think it is more foreshadowing than prophecy, and I couldn't even hazard a guess if Bloodraven set it up or not. I wouldn't think so. Although the Stark children did end up needing the Direwolf pups.

[FanTasy]

I'm new here, but I wanted to add a thought.

Obviously the peoples of this world, much like those of our own ancestors, are a very superstitious lot. To me, the fact was not so much that the Direwolf was killed by the Stag, but that the were BOTH dead.....and only the 'pups' of the wolf survived.

Actually, to this point...only some of the pups have survived.

I think it is more foreshadowing than prophecy, and I couldn't even hazard a guess if Bloodraven set it up or not. I wouldn't think so. Although the Stark children did end up needing the Direwolf pups.

Hello Fire Princess Arianne.Good thinking!

I think Mama Direwolf dying ensured that the direwolf pups were handfed, cared for and raised by the Stark kid that chose them. That created a bond between child : direwolf and this made it possible to activate the warging abilities all Stark kids have.

[Fire Princess Arianne]

Hello Fire Princess Arianne.Good thinking!

I think Mama Direwolf dying ensured that the direwolf pups were handfed, cared for and raised by the Stark kid that chose them. That created a bond between child : direwolf and this made it possible to activate the warging abilities all Stark kids have.

Thank you very much FanTasy. I agree with you as well that those bonds did need to be created. A question I have is that Sansa has been forever separated from her direwolf, and though Arya is separated by miles, she still has a bond. Arya may be 'no one' but she is still connected to that wolf. What does this mean for Sansa? And what do the miles mean for Arya? (this may have been discussed elsewhere, I just haven't found it yet)

[Silverin]

I would like to ask something. So how does dany feed her soldiers and the people of meereen. Her soldiers are 10000 Unsullied plus the selssword companies not to mention her dragons, before she arived the maesters did burn a lot of field, they weren't even that fertile to begin with, and since she suffers from trading embargo through ADwD. That sounds like enourmous mouth to feed in a city that is not located in an area that lacks sufficent fertile lands. I thought the Meereenes bought food from the profit of the slave market. How the hell did dany manage to supply them from a city like that?

(Honestly speaking I don't think realistically from a city with meerens location she would have been able to feed troops with such large numbers, or at least not for too long, unless they succumb to canibalism)

Did I miss something?

[Neo]

As far as I'm aware, there is no indication that these two prophecies refer to the same person.

edit: still the contrary is a very popular opinion.

I believe GRRM has confirmed that the TPTWP and 'Azor Ahai reborn' prophecies refer to the same person.

[Serie]

I believe GRRM has confirmed that the TPTWP and 'Azor Ahai reborn' prophecies refer to the same person.

do you by any chance have a link or something? that would be dearly appreciated :)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I would like to ask something. So how does dany feed her soldiers and the people of meereen. Her soldiers are 10000 Unsullied plus the selssword companies not to mention her dragons, before she arived the maesters did burn a lot of field, they weren't even that fertile to begin with, and since she suffers from trading embargo through ADwD. That sounds like enourmous mouth to feed in a city that is not located in an area that lacks sufficent fertile lands. I thought the Meereenes bought food from the profit of the slave market. How the hell did dany manage to supply them from a city like that?

(Honestly speaking I don't think realistically from a city with meerens location she would have been able to feed troops with such large numbers, or at least not for too long, unless they succumb to canibalism)

Did I miss something?

That's a heck of a good question. We know that she's trying to plant crops but those aren't going to sprout up and be productive overnight. She seems to eat well enough, though.

[Serie]

I believe GRRM has confirmed that the TPTWP and 'Azor Ahai reborn' prophecies refer to the same person.

ok, so I did search a bit and all I could find was people claiming to have read it somewhere. But I also found this:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53828-adwd-spoilers-azor-ahai-and-jon/page__st__340

to make a long story short, GRRM claiming AA and TPTWP refer to the same person might be an urban myth after all :)

we'll have to wait and see I guess...

[Silverin]

That's a heck of a good question. We know that she's trying to plant crops but those aren't going to sprout up and be productive overnight. She seems to eat well enough, though.

Well in ASOIAF everyone seems to eat well enough despite the food shortages and coming and arrived winter. :D

That is another mistery.

[Dragonfish]

ok, so I did search a bit and all I could find was people claiming to have read it somewhere. But I also found this:

http://asoiaf.wester...n/page__st__340

to make a long story short, GRRM claiming AA and TPTWP refer to the same person might be an urban myth after all :)

we'll have to wait and see I guess...

As the thread you linked to indicates, it was originally believed that GRRM confirmed AA and TPWWP were the same, until the poster who originally reported this admitted to lying about it. So the question of whether or not AA and the PWWP are the same is still very much up in the air.

[Lord Mord Goldengrill]

Hi everyone, this will be my first post... I just recently finished reading all 5 books (simply amazing, i loved all of them) and am glad to finally be able to visit the boards without fear of accidentally reading a spoiler or something (i avoided the boards and wikis the whole time i was reading) and jump into the conversation...

Anyway, I do have two small questions that I'd like to ask, and I think this is the thread that I should post them in (correct me if i'm wrong and if i should post these elsewhere)... Also, I did a bit of research into the matter, but I'm still a bit confused, and if these questions have been asked and answered somewhere else i'm sorry too...

**SPOILERS**

1) How did the Queen of Thorns know that the gemstones in Sansa's hairnet were poison? I was under the impression that Littlefinger didn't directly plot the murder of Joff with the Queen of Thorns, but rather indirectly pushed her into thinking it would be better if Joff were killed. I'm also under the impression that it was Littlefinger who gave the hairnet with the poison gemstones to Sansa (via Dontos, i believe). If that's the case, then how exactly did the Queen of Thorns know to take the gemstone from Sansa's hairnet and use it to poison Joff?

2) What was Jaqen H'Ghar doing in Kingslanding in the first place? I find it hard to believe that a skilled assassin such as him would just happen to get arrested and thrown in a dungeon (and even if he did, that he couldn't escape). Did he allow himself to get arrested and thrown in the dungeon knowing that he would eventually be offered the chance to take the Black and go to the Wall? If so, that begs the question of why? Was he on his way to the Wall to assasinate someone in the Night's Watch? If so, who?

Thanks to anyone who can help clear these two things up for me. I really appreciate it.

[Elaena Targaryen]

1) How did the Queen of Thorns know that the gemstones in Sansa's hairnet were poison? I was under the impression that Littlefinger didn't directly plot the murder of Joff with the Queen of Thorns, but rather indirectly pushed her into thinking it would be better if Joff were killed. I'm also under the impression that it was Littlefinger who gave the hairnet with the poison gemstones to Sansa (via Dontos, i believe). If that's the case, then how exactly did the Queen of Thorns know to take the gemstone from Sansa's hairnet and use it to poison Joff?

2) What was Jaqen H'Ghar doing in Kingslanding in the first place? I find it hard to believe that a skilled assassin such as him would just happen to get arrested and thrown in a dungeon (and even if he did, that he couldn't escape). Did he allow himself to get arrested and thrown in the dungeon knowing that he would eventually be offered the chance to take the Black and go to the Wall? If so, that begs the question of why? Was he on his way to the Wall to assasinate someone in the Night's Watch? If so, who?

Those are great questions and if you can't find threads already discussing them, then maybe you should start some. I don't beleive they have answers so it could be good to discuss in a thread.