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The Warg

(Book Spoilers) Jojen and Meera Reid in Season 2

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Just read this over at Making Game of Thrones.

The last scene shot of the whole series is one with Bran, Hodor, Rickon and Osha

Does this mean we wont be seeing the Reids in season 2? I always felt they become very integral characters in Brans story-line, especially near the end of, and after a CoK.

Anyone else feel their absence will affect the story in season 2?

Oh and hi! Long time reader, first time poster! :-)

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I think it comes down to the Reeds being cut entirely from the series or being pushed back to season 3. Without the Reed's Bran's plotline is completely altered from the books, and I think that would be extremely unfortunate. If they are indeed being pushed to season 3 then I don't see how the could possibly show much of winterfell in season 2, meaning they would have to save most of the action there for season 3. Unfortunately from the link above they have filmed scenes with Bran that sound like

Bran hiding in the tomb after Theon has sacked Winterfell

which means the Reeds were not a part of that scene and not a part of this season

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Unfortunately from the link above they have filmed scenes with Bran that sound like

Bran hiding in the tomb after Theon has sacked Winterfell

which means the Reeds were not a part of that scene and not a part of this season

That sounds very much like that scene too me, as well. If that is the case then I am very sad if there are no Reeds or if they are pushed back. If they are pushed back, it would be sort of hard to introduce them later on. :frown5:

There is a part of me that believes that maybe, just MAYBE, they are keeping characters and casting for the Reeds, Ramsay, and Tullys(mainly the Blackfish and Edmure) under wraps as a big surprise and to avoid spoilers for the show. That is a big hope without any actual proof to back it up on my part to believe they are setting us up for a nice treat. ^_^ Or it could just be denial. :crying:

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If they are pushed back, it would be sort of hard to introduce them later on. :frown5:

The most popular theory for how they could be introduced later is to play up the mystical angle. Jojen could be told where to find Bran on his trek North. Its doable.

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The most popular theory for how they could be introduced later is to play up the mystical angle. Jojen could be told where to find Bran on his trek North. Its doable.

I hope so. It would really suck not having Jojen and Meera in the TV Show. I have a bad feeling about it though.

It could be that their role was 'just' to enlighten Bran in his greendreams and warging and bring him to Bloodraven.

I guess introducing the Reeds at a later moment in the show also depends on what role Rickon has to play yet.

If it is important for the big story that Rickon pops up at a different place from Bran the show has to explain how he got there and with whom.

GRRM said in an old interview that he would write about Rickon if he (Rickon) was older.

Of course that could just mean somewhere writing that he's dead :devil: Bran or Jon could see this happen in a wolf dream for instance.

If Rickon is not important for the future storyline, Skaagos isn't in it, they could use Osha to bring Bran (and Rickon, if they let him live) in safety after the fall of Winterfell and skip the Reeds. Hodor is in Season 2, I guess they won't cut him out after that :frown5:

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The most popular theory for how they could be introduced later is to play up the mystical angle. Jojen could be told where to find Bran on his trek North. Its doable.

Oh really. That could work. I just don't see Osha willing to let Bran go beyond the wall with only Hodor at his side. Unless the Reeds somehow intercept before that desicion is made. I just like the friendship and bond that grows between Bran and the Reeds before

the seige at Winterfell.

. It also makes his decision appear less rash if this was something he was contemplating before everything happens and that he was already convinced of Jojen's unique abilities and the fact that he can trust them.

Ack, whatever, I know the show would make it work. They have done excellent so far! I'm just going to go with it. :cool4:

So at least there is still hope we will get the Reeds, if not season 2, then season 3. Yay!!!

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It's sad everytime characters from the book get cut, but I can easily see the show working without the Reeds. Just make Bran have more dreams to lead him where he is supposed to go. No Ramsay tho, that I can't understand, someone must sack Winterfell and befriend Theon after all.

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No...personally I believe they are pushing Bran's storyline in general a little further back. Mainly due to Theon's storyline. Based on the books, Theon doesn't even appear in the 3rd or 4th book. This is fine for a novel series, but it could kill his character on a television series. If they push the Ramsay, Theon, Bran sack of winterfell storyline back, then the sack of Winterfell would take place in the 3rd season and characters like Theon and Ramsay will not have to disappear for a season or more. This also ties in the fact that we haven't seen the Tullys or Riverrun either. They are pushing some storylines back IMO. How depressing would the 3rd season be if we have to witness the sack of Winterfell and the RW? Remember they are probably going to use two seasons for the 3rd book, so there will definitely be time to cover these storylines. They are also adding scenes to Qarth too. Maybe Dany's timeline will also be pushed back some.

So fear not, The Reeds, Riverrun, Blackfish, Edmure, etc will be in season 3(If they aren't secretly in this season.)

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I just don't see Osha willing to let Bran go beyond the wall with only Hodor at his side.

True. Given she was captured fleeing the Wall, it would surely take a lot for her to go back North of the Wall. If they had played up Bran's dreams in S1, then he could have been directly told to go North himself but they haven't done that. It would be strange if they now make the dreams a lot more obvious. So the Reeds popping up in S3 still has logic to it.

It was nice that they built up the relationship between the Reeds and Bran in the books but I suppose it was a cut they thought they could get away with and they probably can. There is so much to tell!

Given developments with Davos, Rickon will appear again. I think he could have a role to play. GRRM certainly has indicated that Osha will appear again.

No Ramsay tho, that I can't understand, someone must sack Winterfell and befriend Theon after all.

Well, there are theories explaining that also. You don't need somebody to befriend Theon but you do need the former alright.

So fear not, The Reeds, Riverrun, Blackfish, Edmure, etc will be in season 3(If they aren't secretly in this season.)

This is very unlikely. Its a popular internet theory but there is no evidence behind it. OTOH, as people mentioned in this thread, they seem to have filmed scenes involving Bran that take place late in aCoK involving Bran.

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True. Given she was captured fleeing the Wall, it would surely take a lot for her to go back North of the Wall. If they had played up Bran's dreams in S1, then he could have been directly told to go North himself but they haven't done that. It would be strange if they now make the dreams a lot more obvious. So the Reeds popping up in S3 still has logic to it.

It was nice that they built up the relationship between the Reeds and Bran in the books but I suppose it was a cut they thought they could get away with and they probably can. There is so much to tell!

Given developments with Davos, Rickon will appear again. I think he could have a role to play. GRRM certainly has indicated that Osha will appear again.

Well, there are theories explaining that also. You don't need somebody to befriend Theon but you do need the former alright.

This is very unlikely. Its a popular internet theory but there is no evidence behind it. OTOH, as people mentioned in this thread, they seem to have filmed scenes involving Bran that take place late in aCoK involving Bran.

They seem to have filmed some things late in ACOK, but nothing is confirmed. I just do not see them cutting out the Reed children like that. The Producers are pretty forceful about trying to stay as close to the books as possible.

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I just do not see them cutting out the Reed children like that.

That's why there is speculation that they will appear in S3 instead after Bran leaves Winterfell. While that may not be true, given what we know, it seems to be the most credible way for the Reeds to appear in this show. (The main purpose of the Reeds is to get Bran over the Wall and they can still do this).

While the producers have kept very close to the books, they are not afraid to make changes. The loss of the Tullys in S1 (and presumably S2) are a good example. GRRM has also warned us not to expect absolute conformity.

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I've decided to resign myself to the fact that the Reeds may not be in it at all. Then if they do show up it'll be a nice surprise. You won't find a bigger fan of Brans story line than me, but I have to confess that Osha is capable of fulfilling their remit. Other than the already mentioned problem that she isn't that keen on going back north of the wall, she does have the necessary knowledge for Bran to start understanding his abilities. The reason I don't anticipate seeing them at all is because if Osha starts telling him about warging, why then introduce someone else to finish the job? Especially someone as difficult to cast as Jojen (young but wise).

My worry now is: what's Bran gonna be doing THIS season? If there's no Reek then there's probably no discussion of the Hornwood/Manderley/Bolton conflict, no Reeds then no Jojen greendreams to puzzle out.......he can't just get annoyed with Big and Little Walder for 8 episodes then run away. I'm incredibly excited to see how they deal with him warging Summer, but even that can't take up that much time (until it becomes important, like when Theon invades)........so I dunno.

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They may have just filmed that particular scene last. It might not mean the Reeds were cut.

Well, we are pretty sure that the Reeds aren't in S2. I really don't think HBO could or would want to keep that secret. The only question is will they appear in S3.

My worry now is: what's Bran gonna be doing THIS season?

I don't think we'll see a lot of him until Theon arrives. I do expect Rodrik Cassel to return to Winterfell early on. We should see him interact with Bran there. I could definitely see a warging dream. They could even tie those 2 together, so Bran dreams that Rodrik is on the way home via Summer and then we see him arrive. Something like that would be effective.

They might also include Bran's dream of the sea lapping all around Winterfell. I love the image but my worry about that is that it wouldn't be an easy thing to do, so who knows.

We probably will get a couple other scenes also pre-Theon but yes, I can't see most of the Winterfell subplots surviving.

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The bigger question is, without the Reed's and the Sack of Winterfell (Ramsay Bolton, etc.), then what on earth is Bran going to do for 10 episodes? It doesn't make sense to cut out Jojen and Meera, since they explain Bran's ability's to him, and allow Osha to take Rickon away. Also, pushing the Sack of Winterfell until season 3 is going to disrupt other plotlines. For example, Catelyn only frees Jaime once she hears Bran and Rickon are dead; and Robb only beds Jeyne Poole once he hears the news. I reckon the casting is under wraps. Altering things like that will cause too many problems for the down the track.

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The bigger question is, without the Reed's and the Sack of Winterfell (Ramsay Bolton, etc.), then what on earth is Bran going to do for 10 episodes?

What did Bran do for ten episodes in season one? He doesn't appear to be a character that the showrunners are focusing on, and, IMO, with good reason: there's a ton of other stuff to take up screentime, and some characters are going to get pushed to the side.

It doesn't make sense to cut out Jojen and Meera, since they explain Bran's ability's to him, and allow Osha to take Rickon away.

Things like explaining Bran's abilities can easily be given to another character, like Osha, who already served a similar purpose in the first season. Jojen and Meera's main usefulness is to give Bran someone to interact with (also to give allusions to their father and talk a little about events like the Tourney at Harrenhal, but they're definitely not focusing on history as much in the show), but if they aren't going to want to give as much screentime to Bran then they're isn't as much need for the Reeds. I was wondering if they could do something with Bran like have him captured and taken to the Dreadfort, and then have him escape later, just to give him something other than travelling north for a season or so. Ramsey would probably never realistically keep a Stark alive, but the show will probably shift away from realism at times for convenience, and Ramsay is also unpredictable so you could never really say what he would do.

Also, pushing the Sack of Winterfell until season 3 is going to disrupt other plotlines. For example, Catelyn only frees Jaime once she hears Bran and Rickon are dead;

Bran and Rickon's alleged death takes place well before the sack of Winterfell.

and Robb only beds Jeyne Poole once he hears the news.

Robb had probably been banging Poole for years.

I reckon the casting is under wraps. Altering things like that will cause too many problems for the down the track.

I seriously doubt they'd have much reason to keep the casting of the Reeds a secret (they didn't hold back any major casting news in season one, and by major I just mean almost anybody who wasn't an extra), and I don't see cutting them out causing many problems (though I don't know if Martin has anything more in store for them down the road). Getting a lone character to move from point A to point B doesn't require a whole ton of orchestration.

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Robb had probably been banging Poole for years.

I think Valkyrist means Jeyne Westerling.

As to Jeyne Poole, I seem to remember that (ADWD spoiler):

despite her brothel training, she remained a virgin before Ramsay Bolton got to bed her.

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What I think/hope will happen:

The Sack of Winterfell stays in Season 2. In Early Season 3, Bran & Co. decide to take refuge in Greywater Watch. It is here that we meet Jojen and Meera, and expand on the greendream storyline. From here, they decide to go north again and split the children up. They split up at or towards the end of season 3, with season 4 devoted to Bran's actual ASOS storyline. This will also give Bran and relate characters much more to do over the span of two whole seasons.

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In Early Season 3, Bran & Co. decide to take refuge in Greywater Watch.

Sorry, I don't think that will happen either, as it will involve introducing more characters and locations. And specifically Howland Reed. GRRM will want to hold off on him.

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