Who is the legitimate Monarch at this point?

[FanTasy]

Then king Tommen Hill is safe now. In this moment, I think.

Yep. At the end of ADWD the key lies with the Tyrells.

They can't risk Margaery producing an heir by a false Baratheon.

The claim to the throne would be moot if his true heritage is questioned.

Thats exactly why I think the Tyrells wanted Joffrey out of the way before he could consummate the wedding.

They wanted him gone before the bedding, not before the wedding.

By marrying Margaery to Tommen instead they bought time.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Yea but the Tyrells are just a show, pretty flowers to look at. They have a large army, granted, but it's spread across the 7 kingdoms. Mace is a baffoon, Margaery is kind of a slut and Lores is almost dead. Grandma is kind of cool. But all the generals are terriable except Tarly suck. In fact Sam's dad controls who will sit on the Iron Throne. But at the end of the day there are no lawers in Westors just Heartsbane

[Arland]

Just a minute. We are talking about kings, but what about regents?

Cercei was appointed a regent, but that was done without any legitimate authority. So this appointment is void. The last time regent was legitimately appointed (assuming Baratheons were no usurpers) was by Robert in his will. The last legitimate regent was Ned. Does title passes to regent heir, if regent dies before the young king comes of age?

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Just a minute. We are talking about kings, but what about regents?

Cercei was appointed a regent, but that was done without any legitimate authority. So this appointment is void. The last time regent was legitimately appointed (assuming Baratheons were no usurpers) was by Robert in his will. The last legitimate regent was Ned. Does title passes to regent heir, if regent dies before the young king comes of age?

No Regent is like the title of Hand it is not hereditary, only Lordships and Royalty. However i'm sure that Twyin made his daughter Regent at some time.

[Anvik]

No Regent is like the title of Hand it is not hereditary, only Lordships and Royalty. However i'm sure that Twyin made his daughter Regent at some time.

Cersei made herself regent, by way of having Joffrey decree it in his minority. Very tenuous, but still the closest thing she could get to getting herself in a place of power legitimately.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Hmm, can Joff, a minor, decree anything? I suppose, it would legally go to his mother, or Stannis. Yet since Stannis is a traitor he is def not the regent. This forum is very difficult due to the lack of "laws" in westeros. lol if this was an argument over kinslaying or eating bread and salt before your murderd... Also we can't really trace this back to history and see what English Regents did i.e. Thomas Seymour, Richard III, because those people were also the "Hand of the King", so... Also the Catholic Church played a huge role in politics where these "sparrows" can only arrest queens

[dragonsrule]

I would say Tommen as the child born in wedlock of the last king. He may biologically be Jamie's but legally that doesn't mean anything until and unless there is proof which there isn't. Aegon or Dany or someone may become the legimate king through right of conquest, but they haven't done it yet.

[jarl the climber]

Stannis has the best claim of anybody who is in Westeros, unless Aegon comes up with some definitive proof of his birth.If Dany ever comes she does.As for Jon same as Aegon.At this time Stannis.All though Cerseis child sits the throne alomost none of the major houses believe there Roberts.

[Arland]

No Regent is like the title of Hand it is not hereditary, only Lordships and Royalty.

I somehow would think Regent's title be more similar to "warden of..." title. It is something like "protector of the kingdom". Was the warden title hereditary?

[LuisDantas]

It appears to be.

A very early chapter of AGOT has Ned talking with Robert, warning him against making Jaime Lannister Warden of the Vale because Jaime is likely to inherit the title of Warden of the West from his father as well.

Besides, Mace Tyrell probably inherited his title of Warden of the South. He does not look the type to have earned it in any other way.

[Arland]

Then I would think that Warden of is a hereditary title but probably a king can take it away and reassign it of need be. Why not regent then?

It did went from Cersei to Kevan. It was done by a council and not automatically but it seems to have some family connection. Otherwise why Mace wasn't chosen for the job?

So can it be that Robb had a good claim to be a regent (even if he didn't know it, since he didn't know about Robert's will?)

[Anvik]

Pretty sure Ned mentions an 'ancestral office the Arryn's have held for hundreds of years' when discussing giving the warden of the east title to Jaime...

[Ser Lepus]

The title of Warden is legally granted by the king, but traditionally is passed from father to son.

I think the reason it has been allowed to become hereditary is that it mostly honorific; the lords and knights obey their lieges, not the Warden, unless the Warden happens to be also their liege.

[Miryana]

Dany, if you believe above all in the original Targaryen conquest that made the Seven Kingdoms one.

Stannis, if you believe the Targaryens lost their legitimacy the same way they got it, by open conquest.

Not Tommen, because the people keeping him in power have decided to lie about his origins because it's more personally convenient for them. If the leading lords of the realm were to honestly swear their loyalty to Tommen Lannister, acknowledging that the dynasty has changed, he'd become king by means of the consent of the realm.

My vote: Stannis. The Targaryens were conquerors and established that as a legitimate claim to royalty. The Baratheons beat them honestly and ruled with the consent of the realm for more than a decade, before the Lannister usurpation, founded on their deceitful and treasonous abuse of the principle of inheritance, screwed things up.

[Revan Baratheon]

My vote also: stannis,stannis,STANNIS!!!!

[Hear Us Roar]

Stannis

[Ser Proteus of Muir]

Possession is 9/10s of the law.

Tommen is legitimate but Stannis is rightful, I think.

Or if you're a Targ-loyalist, it's Dany or A-6.

[DurararaFTW]

The Wardens of the East always having been Aryns didn't seem like the rule for all Wardens to me. The Arryn's have always held the East, the Starks the North cause the rule the entire North anyway, but I think the Martells probably held the title of Warden of the South often enough, since the Targaryans liked them so much, whereas fo instance Robert obviously can't trust the guy whose sister was put to death with his approval. I think Tywin's father Tytos may not have held the title Warden of the West either.

Anyway yeah, there's King, Hand, Regent and Lord-Protector of the Realm. Only the first is always heditary as far I know. In Clash of Kings, Cersei was Regent while Joffrey was heir and Tywin was both Hand and Lord-Protector, whereas in Book 5 Tommen was heir while Kevan was Regent and Lord-Protector and Mace was Hand.

I think that Mace as Hand and Tommen an 8-year old he has enough authority to make himself Regent and LP. Unless Kevan already had his will in order and we'll have to see what Cersei can do.

[The Marquis de Leech]

There's no such thing as a legitimate monarch.

Really? That Queen-person on my coinage would be fascinated to learn that.

[CrypticWeirwood]

It appears to be.

A very early chapter of AGOT has Ned talking with Robert, warning him against making Jaime Lannister Warden of the Vale because Jaime is likely to inherit the title of Warden of the West from his father as well.

The Kingsguard are barred from inheriting titles and lands.