LuisDantas Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 What evidence there is that it is even possible for Westeros to truly accept one king? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyacinthGirl Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well, dividing Westeros again is maybe not such a good idea...They are to much acustomed to have one sovereign.Going back thousands years before is hard.It wont go smoothly and it may need centuries to reach a perfect balance. If you divide Westeros, it will all be, again, about wars and bloodshed between kingdoms, but with one legit king, that everyone accepts, peace can be obtained, really, so for me, one of the king (or queen) has to, somehow, manage to be THE one.Dany ?Only 300 years.Dany knows very little about Westeros, besides what only Viserys and Jorah have told her. She won't even listen to Barry the Bold. How can she manage and rule a messed up, vast kingdom that she knows basically nothing about? And the whole Mereen disaster has proved she knows very little of ruling. Don't get me wrong, after the first couple of books, I wanted Queen Dany to swoop in and save the day, but she's proved she's just not up to it.The individual regions clearly want their independence, just look at how readily Robb was proclaimed King in the north. And as for boundary disputes, they seem to have pretty defined maps already. Everyone seems to know where the riverlands are, where the North is, etc...Besides, border bickering is nothing compared to the messes LF, Varys, Cersei and even Dany (Field Of Fire Round 2.0 - how much blood is going to be shed there?) will end up causing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well, the future of Westeros is for me, in the hands of Littlefinger and Varys, I'm quite sure they are the one that, in the end, will decide things according to their game... the duel Varys vs. Littlefinger (mind duel, manipulatives), shall decide the future of the kingdoms...So what we have to know is what do they really want ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evamitchelle Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well, dividing Westeros again is maybe not such a good idea...They are to much acustomed to have one sovereign.Going back thousands years before is hard.It wont go smoothly and it may need centuries to reach a perfect balance. If you divide Westeros, it will all be, again, about wars and bloodshed between kingdoms, but with one legit king, that everyone accepts, peace can be obtained, really, so for me, one of the king (or queen) has to, somehow, manage to be THE one.Dany ?As the others have said it's only been 300 years since the Targ "unified" the kingdoms. Only 100 since Dorne joined the Targs. There were Kings in the North for thousands of years (apparently 8,000) before the Targs ever came though, and the Lannisters, Arryns and Baratheons have ruled in their respective kingdoms for approximately the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOBROD Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Stannis is the true king. he is the only one working to help the people. as he said himself until Davos came with the letter from the wall he was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, instead of saving the kingdom to win his throne.I doubt Cersai or any of her council have given much thought to how they will feed the smallfolk during winter. even when the white raven came they were so busy being selfish a-holes they hardly noticed it or made ANY plans.(WInter is coming , why isint anyone planning? or at least panicing!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zalim Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 So the last legitimate change of the throne was Robert taking it from Aerys by force. What with Joffrey actually not being Robert's natural heir the throne should have passed to Stannis. But given that Stannis attempted to take King's Landing and was defeated, do the Lannisters have rightful possession of the throne, and is Tommen the legitimate King?only as long as Stannis cant take it back ;)If stannis somehow manages to defeat lannisters and take back kg, he will be the legitimate king,basically the THRONE was created by Targs so it is their legacy and their propety but this dont work like thatin westeros, the powerfull takes the throne and even then, there will be houses who wont be loyal to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I doubt Cersai or any of her council have given much thought to how they will feed the smallfolk during winter. even when the white raven came they were so busy being selfish a-holes they hardly noticed it or made ANY plans.(WInter is coming , why isint anyone planning? or at least panicing!)There isn't a whole lot that any Monarch can do about winter, other than encouraging people to plant and harvest as much as they can.Traditionally, people with a feudal culture were very worried about crops and winters, far more than we usually give them credit for. But it doesn't really have a lot to do with who happens to be sitting on the throne, except to the extent that taxes, raids and war losses affected them.It is a tricky matter, though, because once a feeding problem actually presented itself, there was no true merciful solution available. Most often the demographic tensions would simply motivate people into "remembering" how their neighbors were so very undeserving of being there roaming free and motivating them into war. Despicable as war is, it still does wonders to ease population levels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSpawn Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If Aegon is legitimate (Not as Rhaegars son!) ... then he is surely the rightful monarch? (As the possible descendant of Aerion Targaryen being fostered by Varys / Illeryio)Noone really accepted that Renly was the rightful King, just because he was loved more than Stannis... Yet Aerion Targaryen, although exiled, had a son... (After this Aerion drank wildfire and died) "noone wants Aerions bad blood on the throne" so the crown was offered (By the great council) to Aemon (Maester Aemon NW) - he declined and the crown was passed to 'Egg' - Aegon Targaryen. (Also known as Aegon the unlikely)If Aegon is not legitimate then he is no better than a Blackfyre... and has no right to the throne.. though may feel hard done to... hence why he is being supported to re-claim the throne...In Westeros Daenerys would not be the rightful Monarch as she is a woman... and with Viserys dead then the crown would pass to her elder brothers (Rhaegars) legitimate son...Unless he married Lyanna and unless Aegon is Rhaegars (which everyone doubts) ... Rhaegar left no legitimate heir... So that leaves 3 options...Bear in mind the Targs did not claim the Iron throne... they created it - so the 7 kingdoms should only be ruled by Targaryens...1.Stannis has a good claim as a Targ descendant... and Roberts legitimate heir - but his throne was won by sword and despite the Rhaegar and Aerys non-sense - little Aegon should have been seated on the Iron Throne under the guidance of Robert baratheon and Eddard Stark... not killed!!! Also Stannis will have to automatically defer to Daenerys as the rightful heir - if he acknowledges that his daughter should be crowned if he dies then he is following Dornish law... and by the same logic he would have to bow to Daenerys first... i suspect that Stannis will not see it this way...2. But before Robert was seated on the throne they overlooked (not only the potential heir of Aerion) but also this 3rd mysterious son of Egg! - Danys Uncle... We know nothing about him but he would be a legitimate King before Daenerys... however, the lack of information on this character suggests that they are either not important - or dead...3. IF Robb Stark legitimised Jon Snow then he would be the rightful monarch... but due to the technicalities of what was written in Robbs decree - he may not have been legitimised, just declared as Jon Snow - King in the North, heir to house Stark... in which case he would not get any closer to the Iron Throne (which is where people believe the power resides) so it would pass to 1st: Aerions descendant (Aegon), if legit (unlikely)... 2nd: Eggs mysterious 3rd son, if alive... (unlikely) 3rd: Dany's son as the last legitimate male descendant of house Targaryen...I think the reality is, that unless she has a son, she can never hope to restore her family name to the throne for longer than her life unless Westerosi law is changed... :( so i can forsee another 'great council' being put in place to decide the monarchy... although this may be the start of where it all went wrong before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Snow Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Just out of curiosity, considering Robert's conquest ended the Targ claim to the throne and Stannis is the rightful king as of now. If Stannis and Shireen get themselves killed who will be the rightful king? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 If dinasties can be replaced->then Baratheon is the ruling dinasty(since the throne is being claimed in that name), with three contestants: Tommen, Myrcella and Stannis. The thing is that if evidence of Tommen and Myrcella aren't Robert's heir, then Stannis is. Notice that not all recognize Tommen or Stannis as their king.If dinasties can't be replaced->big mess, because Children of the Forest->First Men->Andals->Targaryens->Baratheons.Among the Targaryens: Aegon, if he really is Raegar's son. Jon, if he really is Raegar's son and legitemate(is there records or witnesses of this marriage?). Daenerys.I still say Dolorous Edd will eventually rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seelmann Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I seriously don't understand how someone other than Stannis can be the rightful heir. Right now, Dany, Aegon and even Jon are from a different house, the targ dinasty has NO CLAIM TO THE THRONE WHATSOEVER, it's as if they'd never held the office. Stannis is the brother of Robert and his heir, PERIOD. Not taking sides here, I don't like Stannis, but the guy ain't lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Heir of Bear Island Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 As much as I hate it, Tommen is the monarch. The general population consider the person on the Throne, in King's landing as the King. Until somebody takes the throne, he is king. Aegon, Jon, Stannis all may have better claims to teh throne, but have yet to actually claim it. Tomman may be a paper champ, but he still has the belt. You have to knock him out to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Eye Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 At this point, the legitimate ruler is whoever takes it. That's how the Targaryen's became legitimate, that's how Robert became legitimate, that's how the next ruler will become legitimate. So, obviously, Euron is the legitimate ruler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord's Kiss Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Whoever sits the Iron Throne is the legitimate monarch, so as much as I would like to say Stannis, for now it's Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plurabel Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Just out of curiosity, considering Robert's conquest ended the Targ claim to the throne and Stannis is the rightful king as of now. If Stannis and Shireen get themselves killed who will be the rightful king? good question. I'm sure someone has already poste something about this but can't recall the thread. also: is house baratheon on the verge of extinction then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 As much as I hate it, Tommen is the monarch. The general population consider the person on the Throne, in King's landing as the King. Until somebody takes the throne, he is king. Aegon, Jon, Stannis all may have better claims to teh throne, but have yet to actually claim it. Tomman may be a paper champ, but he still has the belt. You have to knock him out to take it.I wouldn't say that makes it legitimate though. Rule can be legitimated through right of conquest, but Tommen has never conquered or controlled all seven kingdoms. He controls (out of the kingdoms and major houses,) the North, the Westerlands, Dorne, Dragonstone, the Vale, the Riverlands, the Crownlands and the Reach, but he does't control the Iron Islands or Stormlands. So even by Right of Conquest Tommen isn't the legitimate King. Also, Tommen has never claimed Right of Conquest, so technically, Stannis is still the de jure king even though Tommen is the de facto king. Legitimacy is under law, and even under Tommen's law, he is illegitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 good question. I'm sure someone has already poste something about this but can't recall the thread. also: is house baratheon on the verge of extinction then?Unless Gendry or Edric Storm are legitimized then I think it would be Trystane Martell- Dany can't inherit as a women, where the Iron Throne is concerned, I think. Or Aegon, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosh Naranek Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Unless Gendry or Edric Storm are legitimized then I think it would be Trystane Martell- Dany can't inherit as a women, where the Iron Throne is concerned, I think. Or Aegon, of course.Would an Estermont then be a claimant? I would say no. The Estermonts married into the Baratheon family. The Martells married into the Targeryn family. Therefore, anyone with the closest Baratheon blood claim would be next in line. The Baratheon family tree does not fill in enough info for us to spec. The Lannisters are on the throne via suberfuge. People follow Joffrey, Tommen because they honestly believe them to be true or don't credit the rumors or don't care. Currently though - Baratheon is the ruling house. That is why Cersei is so intent on keeping her affair with Jamie mum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plurabel Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Unless Gendry or Edric Storm are legitimized then I think it would be Trystane Martell- Dany can't inherit as a women, where the Iron Throne is concerned, I think. Or Aegon, of course. I agree, although I meant to ask who'd be the heir if Stannis' line were to be kept (but didn't express myself clearly enough) :DSorry, my native language is Portuguese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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