If Bran's prophecy is true, Jon is dead, at best undead.

[Ser Lepus]

I wanted to comment on a number of posts predicting Jon to become undead, either an Other or a wight. Do they think he will be placed in the cells with the other two? How does he get the 'virus' if he is south of the wall and stabbed by mortal men? My assumptipon is that it takes a wight or other to create a new wight. I would be more inclined to believe the Ghost warg theory and he watches his body eventually heal, providing Ghost escapes, unlike Grey or Lady...

Maybe the Others are approaching, their power growing, and they can already turn people just the other side of the Wall into wights; we don´t know who and how turns into wights and who doesn´t.

If the Night Watch or the wildlings expected Jon to become an undead, they would burn his corpse regardless of whatever else happens in the Wall, but, if they think the corpses of people killed south of the Wall are safe, they could forget about the body while they fight each other, and Jon would have a chance to become a wight.

[All Men Must Rhyme]

I remember thinking that the two bodies in the ice cells were going to become important. It just seemed very unlike George to put two dead bodies on the wall without a purpose. My thinking is that they maybe lead to Jon being healed in some way, but I don't think it's through becoming a wight. Maybe Bran will be able to direct him to something through Ghost, if he really has warged into him.

[Great Other]

This whole thread refers to the warmth part.There are many explanations:

The cold person he became after being promoted Lord Commander.

The feeling of cold when he was in his half-dead state.He was still concious however,when the chapter ended.He could still feel the cold.

Becoming a wight.

Death.

Now,you guys,choose only "death" as an explanation.And sometimes the Wight part.

[Prince of the North]

If he were to become like Beric or Uncat Melisandre would have to know how to revive him. If he were to become like Coldhands whoever did that would have to revive him.

My theory is that these are all one and the same. I believe Coldhands once was Benjen Stark who was killed while ranging but resurrected by the Three-Eyed Crow as an ally/assistant in much the same way as Beric and Lady Stoneheart were revived. His black hands and pale skin can be explained by the fact that he was dead for awhile in the frozen north where severe frostbite (i.e.extremeties turning black, etc.) would set in quickly. I don't think it was Coldhands who was controlling the ravens, crows, elk, etc. but the TEC helping them. Additionally, remember that Bloodraven was also reputed to be a sorceror. Also, I think it's easy to fall into thinking there are "different" types of magic in ASoIaF but I don't think that's right. I think there is just "magic" that can be used or manifests itself in many different ways.

So, I don't think it'd be a stretch at all if Mel were to bring Jon back with the "Kiss of Fire". I'm not saying that's what will happen but, if it does, I think it's quite plausible ;)

[ViennaGirl]

I don't think Melisandre will bring him back - I think it will be when he gets put in an ice cell in the Wall. Some kind of weird Wall magic will happen, plus warging. By "bring him back," I hope it's back to being alive and not back as a coldhands-type wight.

But I guess I do think he's dead at least in the short term, per Bran's vision - pale cold skin, sleeping alone in a cold bed, all memory of warmth gone. That sounds very wight to me. I don't want Jon to be a wight, but I'd trust Bran's visions. Unfortunately.

[Silverin]

The first thing I thought, so then Jon will be like (Jon) Snow White laying dead in his ice coffin, and Dany will arive to Westeros and will be his Princess (that was Promised) Charming the true wuw that will awake him?

Cat the evil stepmother who out of jealousy that he is like Ned, and he might steal her children place, wanted him away. Ned is the huntsman, or Benjen? Then Snow White gets into the dangerous forests that is so unfamiliar him, but the cheerful animals in there ( NW or wildlings) lead him to the dwarfs ( NW now him being in charge or wildlings), and she cleans and tidies their place (Jon in ADwD) and burst into songs. Ok I seem to get carried away. Though it explains the black curls.

And I hope not.

And I prefer an interesting twist over a Dany/Jon riding on dragons into the sunset.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Dany? I dont think they could get further apart. And I could see Mel giving Jon the "Beric kiss", but that seems kinda reduntant. And Mel said the purpose of visions is to find a way to avert them, and Bran can do almost anything (excluding walking) as a tree. But I see more with Mel and Jon, remember that quote, "its always cold on the wall" "you think so" "I know so" "then you know nothing Jon Snow" WTF! She kissed by fire also, litteraly whats up with that?

[Silmarien]

Errr... you're reading ASOIAF and imagining happy endings just because you like a character? Paging Sansa...

Ok that was kind of rude. It was only my opinion that I did not wish for Jon to become the Night King. That means I'm like Sansa? GRRM may well go that route, I never said he wouldn't or that nobody had the right to suggest he might. Just that I'd dislike it for poor Jon, as I sympathize with the character.

I'd even prefer for Jon to end the series as a loner, LC of the new NW, or something, rather than become a Wight, WW, or Other. That's just an opinion, not some fantasy dream or super happy ending.

Just because GRRM said the ending would be bittersweet, does NOT mean it will be a horror story nightmare for every character. Jon might end up dead, sacrificing himself to save the realm. Robb died. Ned died. Catelyn died. The Starks all got screwed over and are scattered. The Red Wedding was a difficult chapter to read. But I accept that those things happened. And acknowledge the realism there.

But real life isn't all doom and gloom, either, why should the books be? (they're not, IMO).

I don't expect some rainbow and puppies ending for Jon, but there has to be SOME happiness in the ending, or what's the freaking point? Ending the series with humanity wiped out would make me question why the hell I spent 7-8 books getting so invested in the character arcs and various plotlines, if it was all going to end badly and horrifically.

IMO, ending the books with humanity destroyed and the Others cackling would just be bad writing.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Can it end good? Can Sansa have a nice life and still kill LF? Will Dany kill all Tyrells and Lannisters, but give up 80% of her kingdom to the Starks? This book is sooo sad, it has to get good eventually. But it will never be perfect. I just hope there is no 10 years later... But there has to be right? if this chapter is Winter (the longest winter ever!) and next is Spring...

[Silmarien]

As for whether Jon and Dany would get together or not...I'm neutral. I could see it happening under certain circumstances, like if they meet and battle against the others, and both had time to realize each others good qualities (both desire to be good rulers, both have good hearts and care about their people, and they both came from roughish childhoods, but are different enough as to be complements to each other and not carbon copies).

But I think it's silly to say "Dany isn't Jon's type" or vice vera. Who really has a friggin "type" in real life? Do people really only go for blondes? Or brunettes? And would REFUSE to even consider a mate with, say, red hair, even if they're a great person, wonderful personality, and attractive (to the person)?

I think that's a shallow way to choose a mate (no offense intended)...it's the inner qualities that count for the most, IMHO. And no I don't just say that because I'm fugly (sorry, I just know that someone is gonna drop a comment like "only ugly people say that!" bc they have on almost every other forum I've posted this opinion).

[Silmarien]

Can it end good? Can Sansa have a nice life and still kill LF? Will Dany kill all Tyrells and Lannisters, but give up 80% of her kingdom to the Starks? This book is sooo sad, it has to get good eventually. But it will never be perfect. I just hope there is no 10 years later... But there has to be right? if this chapter is Winter (the longest winter ever!) and next is Spring...

Well, GRRM said his ending would be bittersweet (see the Google talk interview, it's on youtube).

Many describe the ending of Lord of the Rings as "bittersweet" as well. I don't think we're going to see depressing endings for the majority of the characters, though I don't doubt some will end tragically.

[Serie]

Can it end good? Can Sansa have a nice life and still kill LF? Will Dany kill all Tyrells and Lannisters, but give up 80% of her kingdom to the Starks? This book is sooo sad, it has to get good eventually. But it will never be perfect. I just hope there is no 10 years later... But there has to be right? if this chapter is Winter (the longest winter ever!) and next is Spring...

the end will be bittersweet. GRRM himself told so. It's still an open question for whom the ending will be bitter and for whom sweet....

edit:

@silmarien now are you typing super fast or what! :P

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Well the nobles never marry for love, especially the royalty. And Dany cant get pregnant, and they are related, prob. Why dont you like the Night King, bad ass title

[Silmarien]

the end will be bittersweet. GRRM himself told so. It's still an open question for whom the ending will be bitter and for whom sweet....

edit:

@silmarien now are you typing super fast or what! :P

Ha, sorry about that! I agree with ya. :)

[Silmarien]

Well the nobles never marry for love, especially the royalty. And Dany cant get pregnant, and they are related, prob. Why dont you like the Night King, bad ass title

Prince Doran married for love. So did King Jaehaerys, and his sons. Robb arguably married for love (tragically). It's not unheard of.

The Night King isn't a good person - he isn't even human. He was either a Wight or a White Walker/Other. I like Jon human, he's badass enough without being transformed into a supernatural being. But, just IMHO. :dunno:

ETA: We do not know Dany cannot get pregnant. You believe MMD? She certainly deceived Dany once. And her curse seems to be undoing itself. Dany seems to be having a miscarriage after eating juniper-like berries in her final chapter in ADWD. I think she can have kids.

Then there's the interpretation of the MMD curse as meaning Dany will die in childbirth (thus seeing Drogo in the afterlife).

Anything is possible in these books.

[ARYa_Nym]

The thirteenth Commander of the Night's Watch and a fearless warrior, he fell in love with a woman "with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars...her skin was cold as ice."

Having brought her back to the Nightfort he proclaimed her Queen and there they ruled for thirteen years, before his own brother and Joramun of the Wildlings(Free Folk) brought him down. Afterwards it was discovered he had been sacrificing to the Others, presumably by giving up children to become White Walkers as Craster was later to do and supposedly all records of his name were obliterated.^[1]

The first Night's King fell in love with an undead woman. He may have been sacrificing children. The king-beyond-the-wall and a Stark defeated him.

.

Not all renewed situations are exactly the same but Jon wasn't made a fearless warrior. He's just an average or slightly above average one. There needs to be a pale woman with whom he would fall in love with and made his Queen.

Mel said that he would never love her but that he would make use of her. He actually can't stand her.

"She walked as close to Jon Snow as she dared, close enough to feel the mistrust pouring off him like a black fog. He does not love me, will never love me, but he will make use of me. Well and good. Melisandre had danced the same dance with Stannis Baratheon, back in the beginning..."

Jon appeared to be disgusted when he mistook her for Ygritte.

"The light of the moon was in her hair, her red hair kissed by fire. When he saw that, Jon's heart leaped into his mouth. "Ygritte," he said. "Lord Snow." The voice was Melisandre's. Surprise made him recoil from her....He did not understand how he could have taken her for Ygritte. She was taller, thinner, older, though the moonlight washed years from her face. Mist rose from her nostrils, and from pale hands naked to the night..."

She may be kissed by fire like Ygritte but I think Jon liked Ygritte more for her personality. Remember that the initial consent between them was dubious. From his description of her I think Jon didn't like her but came to like and care for her eventually after she had sex with him. He was always attracted to Val on the other hand but he doesn't love her. Val is the one who he thought was worthy to be his wife though.

If Benjen is Coldhands then there are already is a storyline for a black brother connected to the Stark family who was turned into an undead creature.

[ViennaGirl]

For me, it's not that I want rainbows and unicorns, I just fundamentally do not want characters whom I like to become zombies. I really like Jon's evolution from kid to kickass LC who beheaded Slynt, and I hope very much that GRRM doesn't wight him. I'd rather he was dead as a person than alive as a wight. Same with the other characters I like - I would HATE for Davos to be a wight, or Val, or Doloros Edd, or Wyman Manderly...

[ViennaGirl]

well, actually, rainbows and unicorns would probably be fine at the end also ;)

[Silmarien]

For me, it's not that I want rainbows and unicorns, I just fundamentally do not want characters whom I like to become zombies. I really like Jon's evolution from kid to kickass LC who beheaded Slynt, and I hope very much that GRRM doesn't wight him. I'd rather he was dead as a person than alive as a wight. Same with the other characters I like - I would HATE for Davos to be a wight, or Val, or Doloros Edd, or Wyman Manderly...

This is what I was trying to get across (less eloquently than you, VG!). I agree. :)

ETA: Also, rainbows and unicorns wouldn't bother me much, either. I just don't expect it.

[ViennaGirl]

No, I don't think we will have rainbows, although we might have unicorns if we get to Skagos...