idiotking Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It says Jon is *sleeping*, and the *memory* of all warmth fled from him. Sounds pretty clearly like becoming undead, not being DEAD dead. Besides, as we saw with Coldhands, becoming "wight-ish" doesn't necessarily mean becoming evil or zombie-like. Of course, all the usual caveats about fallacy of prophecy apply... although can anyone point me to a "greendream" being definitely WRONG? Not all prophecies are created equal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 My interpretation of Bran's vision in AGOT is that he is being shown everything that is happening in real time a that moment. Catelyn is on a ship heading to King's Landing. Sansa is crying herself to sleep every night because Lady was just killed. Arya is holding secrets (Nymeria is still alive) close to her heart. And Jon is at the Wall, which was something Bran didn't know before he fell, and it is cold there.It does sound ominous, but I don't take it as a glimpse of the future because nothing else there really was.And yes, the great prophecy of the Stallion that Mounts the World - R.I.P. Rhaego - didn't turn out like the crones thought. And there is always what Marwyn said about prophecy...I think Drogon is The Stallion that mounts the world. Since the birth of the dragons she has followers of many different nationalities. I think I TWOW she is going to have a full Khalasar following her once the Dothraki see her riding Drogon,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think I would actually be ok with this (of course, the Others would win and rule Westeros xD) an awesome twist to the predictable story :DAnd about Bran's prophecy, it doesn't necessarily have to mean that Jon is dead, he could be in a coma and he would look almost like he is dead.Not dead.There are suggestions from Craster's story that the Others take live children as sacrifices.Being alive means he could become an Other,rather than a wight.The prophecy/vision says Jons skin becomes "pale and hard" which echoes the description of the Others in the GOT prologue as "..hard as old bones,with flesh pale as milk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvik Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 or pale and hard could be lack of sun and muscles getting harder from the difficult lifestyle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val the Wildling Princess Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Not dead.There are suggestions from Craster's story that the Others take live children as sacrifices.Being alive means he could become an Other,rather than a wight.The prophecy/vision says Jons skin becomes "pale and hard" which echoes the description of the Others in the GOT prologue as "..hard as old bones,with flesh pale as milk".Yeah, yeah I got it, not dead. And you're right about the description of the Others!! Dammit, stop it, I'm loving this theory so much :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 or pale and hard could be lack of sun and muscles getting harder from the difficult lifestyle...You could say that was a description of the Others!! :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 'all memory of warmth leaving' is mostly what I remember happening during every Wall chapter ever. It's cold there and Jon is chained to it. That's the significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvik Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 agh, so many conspiracy theories in this story... *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think and hope that Dany's 'blue flower growing from the wall of ice' vision symbolizes Jon being at the Wall at that point in time and this vision of Bran was fulfilled when Jon was thrown in the ice cells by Janos Slynt for his desertion and spent several days there (or both of those visions are referencing that time and not the future). If he "died" at the end of ADWD and his body stays in the ice cells until Dany arrives in Westeros and revives him, which with our luck would probably happen a whole book or a book and a half later, I'm going to scream.I think it's possible it's just that it would take so long. Jon would be out of the picture for a very long time.. . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .Jon may be the third in all these sequences. Perhaps if Ghost is her mount to love he leads her to Jon's body and then she lights a fire to love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTargStark Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 wait, there is a difference between wight and others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTargStark Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 I always thought other=undead=wight(sp?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val the Wildling Princess Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 wait, there is a difference between wight and others?Here http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others but basically the Others are "people" we don't know much about, they live north of the Wall, they appeared during the Long Night and they can raise dead people that are the wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 wait, there is a difference between wight and others?Wights: Dead humans that come back to life and try to kill you, Presumably created by the Others/White Walkers. Don´t speak, but seem to retain some knowledge from their mortal lives. They seem to be unable to move during the daylight hours. Essentially like the "Night Of The Living Dead" zombies, only more flammable.Others: We don´t know what the heck they are. They look inhuman, have their own language, use ice armor that only can bypassed by obsidian weapons, and magical swords that freeze everything they touch. They fear fire, and avoid the sun. Only seen at night. Sometimes they ride animal wights. Legend says they ravaged Westeros thousands of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I always thought other=undead=wight(sp?)Wights are humans who have been killed by the Others.Apparently zombies, they appear to be able to be programmed to a certain extent-the attack on Lord Mormont,and the attack on Bran's party as they near Bloodraven's cave support this idea.Coldhands seems to suggest they can be used for good by Bloodraven/COTF,but maybe that depends on whether Bloodraven or the Others killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTargStark Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hey thanks guys, then, a guy who helped Bran and his buddies to that bloodraven(?) dude, is he Others or wight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTargStark Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 IF OTHERS were actual people from North, I guess it wouldn't be a war between human versus monsters, I guess if there was one...I thought they were monsters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hey thanks guys, then, a guy who helped Bran and his buddies to that bloodraven(?) dude, is he Others or wight?since he used to be in the NW while alive Coldhands must be something like a good wight.edit: well actually this is not quite true. Coldhands is dead, that's for sure, in that sense he may be considered as a wight. but he's something more than that because he is helping Bran & CO to get away from other wights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hey thanks guys, then, a guy who helped Bran and his buddies to that bloodraven(?) dude, is he Others or wight?He is most probably a wight, but a special one who retains his personality, memories and skills (essentially a human mind and a wight body). We don´t know who he really is, or how he was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Hodor Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I sure hope Jon isn't dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I sure hope Jon isn't dead...Same here...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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