Fragile Bird Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm still hoping that Myrcella will get a reprieve by being in Dorne or betrothed to Trystane; but who knows. I'm almost certain that Tommen will be killed, which is a shame. I could see Cersei going postal after his death and setting off wildfires all over King's Landing; the only structure left for Aegon or Daenerys might be the Iron Throne, with the surrounding palace in ruins.Now that would fall under the category of "bittersweet". Cersei sets fire to King's Landing, just as Jaime cames back with Sandor and Brienne from their rescue Sansa mission. Jaime just sits on his horse on a hill overlooking KL watching KL burning down, thinking to himself, all the Kingslayer shit I went through for the last 16 or 17 years, all for nothing........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timebean Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The character devlopment of Cersei has been some of my favorite in the entire series! Here is how I see it.Cersei has always been in the shadow of great men. Her feared and famed father, her own twin, her royal husband. She talks very lucidly about how she couldn't understand as a child why she and her twin brother were treated so differently. She always felt that she was a true lion, yet was continually blocked in proving any of it by the men in her life. Her realtionship with here children is twofold: she loves them and wants to rpotect them as any mother can. But more that this, they are a way for her to extend her own power. SHE raised them all, with minimal help from Robert OR Jaime. It was her way to be powerful. So in way, even though she loves them all, they were her chance to DO SOMETHING! (Oh, and I also belive her hatred of Tyrion was another way to be powerful, to be better than someone else).Then, all of the sudden, her husband and father are dead. Her famous brother is maimed. She has the rare oppurtunity to prove her quality. What makes it so fun to read is that she screws it all up!!!! She is fantastic at manipulating from behind her children, as a wife and sister and a daughter. But she has never played the only game that matters. The game of thonres! :bowdown:So personally, I pity her and adore her. She is wicked and selfish and stupid, yes, but not without a real development of character to go along with that. I am personally looking foward to her havoc-wreaking in WofW!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitchyBex Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Hmm, she'd either suspect the Tyrells because of the blatant attempt to copy Tywin's death with the crossbows (but still not ruling out the Tyrell link) or try to do some detective work Cercei style! :)CSI: King's Landing :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zar Lannister Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 The character devlopment of Cersei has been some of my favorite in the entire series! Here is how I see it.Cersei has always been in the shadow of great men. Her feared and famed father, her own twin, her royal husband. She talks very lucidly about how she couldn't understand as a child why she and her twin brother were treated so differently. She always felt that she was a true lion, yet was continually blocked in proving any of it by the men in her life.Her realtionship with here children is twofold: she loves them and wants to rpotect them as any mother can. But more that this, they are a way for her to extend her own power. SHE raised them all, with minimal help from Robert OR Jaime. It was her way to be powerful. So in way, even though she loves them all, they were her chance to DO SOMETHING! (Oh, and I also belive her hatred of Tyrion was another way to be powerful, to be better than someone else).Then, all of the sudden, her husband and father are dead. Her famous brother is maimed. She has the rare oppurtunity to prove her quality. What makes it so fun to read is that she screws it all up!!!! She is fantastic at manipulating from behind her children, as a wife and sister and a daughter. But she has never played the only game that matters. The game of thonres! :bowdown:So personally, I pity her and adore her. She is wicked and selfish and stupid, yes, but not without a real development of character to go along with that. I am personally looking foward to her havoc-wreaking in WofW!!!!Well, the one thing I think is that Cersei is far more effective in plotting short term ploys rather than scheming at long term, the lack of training in ruling combined with her paranoia maims her badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Honestly (and I say this a lot), I think Cersei would have been an excellent ruler if Joff hadn't died. Which is probably one of the reasons why he died unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder Sister Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The character devlopment of Cersei has been some of my favorite in the entire series! Here is how I see it.Cersei has always been in the shadow of great men. Her feared and famed father, her own twin, her royal husband. She talks very lucidly about how she couldn't understand as a child why she and her twin brother were treated so differently. She always felt that she was a true lion, yet was continually blocked in proving any of it by the men in her life.Her realtionship with here children is twofold: she loves them and wants to rpotect them as any mother can. But more that this, they are a way for her to extend her own power. SHE raised them all, with minimal help from Robert OR Jaime. It was her way to be powerful. So in way, even though she loves them all, they were her chance to DO SOMETHING! (Oh, and I also belive her hatred of Tyrion was another way to be powerful, to be better than someone else).Then, all of the sudden, her husband and father are dead. Her famous brother is maimed. She has the rare oppurtunity to prove her quality. What makes it so fun to read is that she screws it all up!!!! She is fantastic at manipulating from behind her children, as a wife and sister and a daughter. But she has never played the only game that matters. The game of thonres! :bowdown:So personally, I pity her and adore her. She is wicked and selfish and stupid, yes, but not without a real development of character to go along with that. I am personally looking foward to her havoc-wreaking in WofW!!!!This is exactly how I see it. I love Cersei, but at the same time, I don't like her at all. Her callousness with throwing people to Qyburn makes me ill, and I have no excuses for her, but I see how her gender and circumstances have warped her.She's one of my favorite characters. I would love to see her redeem herself and become the person I have seen glimmers of, but I don't think GRRM will allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zar Lannister Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 She's one of my favorite characters. I would love to see her redeem herself and become the person I have seen glimmers of, but I don't think GRRM will allow it.Redeem herself? In what sense? Do you feel Cersei's walk of shame may have not changed her M.O. somewhat? She seemed far more composed in her conversations with Kevan, more aware of what was out to take her down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zar Lannister Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Honestly (and I say this a lot), I think Cersei would have been an excellent ruler if Joff hadn't died.Which is probably one of the reasons why he died unfortunately.I don't see this, though. Tywin was in control of the situation here, and Cersei was to be married off to some Highborn Lord that the Lannisters wanted to bring back to their side. Plus, Cersei was shown as being quite ineffective at getting her advices to come through to Joffrey. Joffrey would not follow her counsel, and the intricate plots she crafted fell apart to his bratty immature behavior. Furthermore, Tywin did not consider her able to rule anything (or he wouldn't have sent Tyrion in his stead to King's Landing). Evidently, she was meant to be maimed for as long as they both lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitac Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I don't see this, though. Tywin was in control of the situation here, and Cersei was to be married off to some Highborn Lord that the Lannisters wanted to bring back to their side. Plus, Cersei was shown as being quite ineffective at getting her advices to come through to Joffrey. Joffrey would not follow her counsel, and the intricate plots she crafted fell apart to his bratty immature behavior. Furthermore, Tywin did not consider her able to rule anything (or he wouldn't have sent Tyrion in his stead to King's Landing). Evidently, she was meant to be maimed for as long as they both lived.Cersei was Queen. She was horribly unhappy, but she was the most powerful woman in Westeros. Once Robert died, though, Tywin stepped in to protect the Lannister interest. His grandson was to be King. Her function as Queen had passed and she became another card for Tywin to use on behalf of the family. Did Tywin suspect or know about her character flaws and/or psychiatric disorders? Maybe. Regardless, she was seen by him as well enough to marry off. I think that the relationship between Cersei and Tywin is the most tenuous and most interesting from among the three children. The other two's relationships were more formulaic. I would love to delve into this matter more. Cersei and Jaime have been discussed ad infinitum already. Can we do an analysis of Father-Daughter Zar? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zar Lannister Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 absolutely! I don't think the matter has been discussed at all at this point.As far as I can tell, Cersei imagined herself as the son Tywin should've had. Whether Martin envisioned a Tywin that acknowledged any of this in his daughter goes above me... Cersei well complains she was train and taught to be the daughter of the Lord of Casterly Rock, and while her brother was trained in arts of her interest, she was busy with activities suited to make her a top match.Tywin had big plans for his daughter since the beginning. The way he saw it, she was to give his House the final step into power in the Seven Kingdoms by uniting House Targaryen and Lannister in marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitac Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 How do you want to proceed with the analysis. We could do it informally with a back and forth of ideas or do you want to do it in a more structured manner with quotations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zar Lannister Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 How do you want to proceed with the analysis. We could do it informally with a back and forth of ideas or do you want to do it in a more structured manner with quotations?Either way goes... have you kept notes? I love keeping notes but I'm a bit of a neat freak with my GoT books so I kept those mint. All my notes are in my Kindle version. We can make it more amenable perhaps if a bit informal? Where do you want to start? How Cersei envisions Tywin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitac Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 We'll start with the first book. I'll use some resources from Tower of the Hand. Can we start tomorrow? Maybe ask FG if she wants to participate? Think about it and tell me what you want to do tomorrow. I'd be great if we could somehow do it chronologically rather than by book. I'll check Tower tomorrow. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Olenna Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I've always thought of Cersei as being exactly what she is: a Lioness.The lioness is incredibly protective of her cubs to the extent that she will take on the male of the species and even crocodiles. Does protective equate to loving?Does it matter?It's all in the nature of the beast. And the Lioness is a proud, dedicated and protective mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder Sister Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Redeem herself? In what sense? Do you feel Cersei's walk of shame may have not changed her M.O. somewhat? She seemed far more composed in her conversations with Kevan, more aware of what was out to take her down.She is still extremely selfish, most likely, but I do hope that her experiences have changed her. I think the walk of shame was horrible. She should not have had to go through that IMO. It was extremely cruel. Of course, Cersei has been extremely cruel to others. I think, though, that her manner with Kevan was an act for his benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zar Lannister Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 We'll start with the first book. I'll use some resources from Tower of the Hand. Can we start tomorrow? Maybe ask FG if she wants to participate? Think about it and tell me what you want to do tomorrow. I'd be great if we could somehow do it chronologically rather than by book. I'll check Tower tomorrow. :)I've been meaning to arrange a Cersei arch re-read. This sounds like a good place to start :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder Sister Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I've been meaning to arrange a Cersei arch re-read. This sounds like a good place to start :)Please give me a heads-up...I would love to participate.Cersei is one of the most divisive characters in the book. I understand it, but I also think in many ways, she gets a bad rap.In many ways she's a monster, but there is definitely a person in there. I wish GRRM would have given her the same opportunity at redemption that Jaime seems to be getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitac Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think that she is a truly fantastic character. I'm so glad he didn't go with the typical Voldemort thing and instead used a smart, bitter, complicated lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zar Lannister Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Actually, I really think this would be an interesting project, re-reading Cersei in her downward spiral, maybe looking for some inklings to her future?I'm always led to think that Cersei's first blatant exclamation to Ned about coming to the world with Jaime and leaving with him was a Chekov gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 It fascinates me how stupid, petty, myopic, vindictive, moronic, idiotic, uninspiring, callous, malicious, cruel, ineffectual,and dumb Cersei is. ..is, is that enough? Should I keep going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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