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Rapsie

From Pawn to Player? Rereading Sansa II

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ACOK Sansa II Summary

The chapter starts with Sansa in her chambers reading a message she found folded up under one of her pillows. She is unsure what to do and first thinks that she should take it to the Queen to show she was being good. As she thinks this, she rubs her stomach where she is still badly bruised from Ser Meryn punching her with a mailed fist for saying she hoped the Others would kill Janos Slynt within Joff’s hearing range. She thinks

She reflects again on the words “Come to the godswood tonight, if you want to go home” and thinks that she has prayed so hard for a true knight to save her and wonders who it could be. She thinks it maybe one of the Redwyne Twins, Balon Swann or Beric Dondarrion. Then she worries that it is a trick by Joffery. Or a trap to prove her a traitor and that Ser Ilyn Payne will be waiting for her in the Godswood with Ice.

The door opens and a servant enters. Sansa quickly hides the note and asks the girl to set a fire. She doesn’t trust the girl and notes that the Queen changes her servants every fortnight so that she doesn’t befriend them. Sansa thinks that the girl seems stupid, but that she has sly eyes.

Once the girl has left, she burns the note and looks out to see Ser Preston Greenfield of the KG pacing the drawbridge between Maegor’s and the rest of the castle. She realises she can’t get past him without her being questioned so undresses and goes to bed. She wonders is her True Knight is waiting for her and how long will he wait for her.

She wishes she had someone to talk to and advise her, like Septa Mordane or Jeyne Poole, who she remembers as her truest friend and had never been mentioned again after she was taken away by LF.

During her reflections she hears shouting from outside. She thinks she should go back to her bed and that this is just some new trouble like the gossip being spoken about at the wells. Then she sees that the drawbridge is unguarded. Even though she thinks it is madness, she quickly dresses and takes a knife and hurries towards the Godswood. She avoids being seen by Soldiers, the KG and Joff. She hides in the shadows and at one point

She finally reaches the Godswood. She notes the smells and thinks She notes that there is something wild about even this Godswood which is in a city and that she could feel the old gods watching her. She thinks that she had preferred her mother’s gods with their statues, stained glass windows, incense, crystals and glitzy rainbow colours, but at the same time, she could not deny the power of the Godswood and notes that it is especially powerful at night. As she prays, she moves from tree to tree, feeling the rough bark of the trees and the leaves on her face. She wonders if she has arrived to late.

Then a man appears: Ser Dontos. A very drunk Ser Dontos. He tries to reach out for her and she warns him off while her hand goes to her knife. He says he is there to help her. She says he’s drunk and he says it was one cup to help his courage as they will skin him if they catch him.

Dontos asks if she is going to stab him and she says “I will. Tell me who sent you”, to which Ser Dontos replies no one. Sansa gets upset and says she prayed to the gods for a knight and they have sent her a drunken old fool. Ser Dontos says he was a fool, but her courageousness in saving him from Joff has also saved him from himself and says the greatest knight of all was a fool and falls to his knees in front of her. Sansa thinks of Florian, and a shiver runs through her. Dontos says he can be her Florian, and she asks how he will get her away from the Lannisters, while thinking that it is madness to trust him, but it maybe the only chance she gets. He tells her the hardest part is getting out of the castle, but once they have done that, they’ll get a boat. Sansa asks if they can leave tonight. Dontos says no and asks her to put away her blade.

Dontos then says that her father was a true man and that he stood by and let him be slain, yet when he was in peril, she spoke up for him. He says that he was never a hero, He then places his hand on the Heart Tree and swears an Oath to the Old Gods that he will send her home. Sansa thinks that a solemn oath before the gods is important and accepts his offer of an escape plan.

He tells her that she must come to the Godswood as often as she can as it is the only place they can talk freely and that all conversations can be heard everywhere else, because the stones have ears. He says that he maybe cruel and mocking outside the Godswood, but it is a role he must play and she must play her role too if they want to keep their heads. he tells her

He then says she should go before she is missed and they should not be seen together so she must leave first. Sansa kisses him on the cheek and thinks, the Gods heard my prayer, and that she has her Florian.

As she is hurrying back, she thinks about Florian and Jonquil and how it is her favourite song.

She knocks into him and begins to fall, but he grabs her wrist and says it’s a long way down and does she want to kill them both, and perhaps she does. She realizes it’s the Hound. She tries to get free of his grasp and tells him that he’s hurting her. He asks what she is doing at the serpentine steps and when she doesn’t answer, he shakes her and demands to know where she was. She tells him she was in the Godswood praying for her father and Joff. Sandor says he’s not so drunk as to believe that and lets her arm go. He then tells her

After going on about songs about Knights and maidens he says she likes Knights and Sansa responds that she likes True Knights. The Hound laughs at this and says that he is no more a Lord than a Knight and asks if he has to beat that into her. He then mentions that he has had too much wine and says she has to go back to her cage.

They walk in silence until they reach Maegor’s Holdfast and Sansa gets alarmed when she sees Ser Boros on the Bridge. Sansa thinks that he is the worst of the KG. The Hound however notices her apprehension and tells her that Ser Boros is not someone to be afraid of and compares him to a toad painted with tiger stripes. Ser Boros tries to question them and Sandor tells him to f*** off and reminds him that he’s not a Ser, he’s the king’s dog. When questioned by Ser Boros, Sansa says she was in the Godswood praying for Joff and thinks the lie sounds more convincing this time. Sandor intervenes and says she could hardly be expected to sleep with all the racket. Ser Boros says there are people rioting because of the food for Tyrek’s wedding feast. Joff led a sortie and Clegane mockingly says a brave boy. Sansa thinks

As they walk on, Sansa asks why Sandor lets people call him a dog and doesn’t let anyone call him a knight. Sandor tells her that he likes dogs better than knights and tells her that his grandfather was a kennelmaster who saved Tytos Lannister from a Lioness. Three of his dogs died, and his grandfather lost a leg and in exchange Tytos gave them a Towerhouse, lands and made his father a squire. he notes He notes that she still won’t look at him and says that he never got his song. Sansa says she will gladly sing for him and mentions Florian and Jonquil, to which Sandor says spare me and describes them as a fool and his cunt, but says he’ll get a song from her one day whether she wills it or not. She says she’d gladly sing for him and he snorts

Analysis

This is another great chapter for seeing the development of Sansa. Her response to the note is not naïve but a realisation that it could be many things from real to a trap to a cruel jape. She deliberates on the best course of action and also destroys the note which shows a lot of sense. She also doesn’t trust her maids and has already worked out they are spies for the Queen or Varys, which is interesting as she doesn’t seem to have much to do with him, but is aware that he maybe spying on her.

We also see her realise that she has to guard what she says more and only think things, whilst hiding her feelings. The beatings she endures sound unpleasant to say the least.

We also see more of the religious side to Sansa. Whether that has become more developed due to her captivity and it being her only course of action or already deep seated beliefs is debatable. Certainly her love of the Seven comes across as childish infatuation with the exterior elements of it, while the Godswood seems to resonant with her. Similarly, she is still thinking it terms of being rescued rather than trying to orchestrate her own escape attempt. However when she goes to the Godswood, she does arm herself with a knife, thinking This struck me as very brave, but also very sad. She is clearly being beaten frequently and is having to play a mummer’s part to survive. She can no longer be Sansa Stark. She must be a modified version that always watches what she says. With Ser Dontos, she pulls a knife on him and is reluctant to drop it until he swears his oath. She is not going to believe the first thing anyone says anymore. She has become more distrustful and we see more perspective as she asks him who he is working for. On a side note, I always wondered if LF was hiding in the Godswood listening to this conversation. Sansa is much more of a player than pawn in this encounter with Ser Dontos.

Also she thinks about Jeyne Poole and Septa Mordane and enviously of Arya, who she thinks is safely in Winterfell. She is also still blaming Lady’s death on Arya. I don’t have a sibling, but it occurs to me that although Arya and Sansa are sisters, Sansa cared more about Jeyne Poole. She was more of a sister to her than Arya.

Her interaction with the Godswood and her prayer are also interesting, as she prays for . She then thinks after meeting Dontos that Florian was homely but younger and almost instantly runs into Sandor Clegane, who despite being an ass, sees her safely past Ser Boros and when she is frightend of Ser Boros, tries to comfort her. Also the Sandor Lady parallel is also highlighted again in this chapter.

Also despite her mummer’s act and watching what she says, she never seems to do so with Sandor. She talks to him quite openly, even though he scares her.

There is also the strange interaction with the cat, which we know is Belarion, Rhaenys’ kitten. It doesn’t like Sansa and I wonder if this is foreshadowing of Sansa going against the Targs. Again fitting into the Younger Queen theory if she is married to Aegon and he is a Blackfyre.

Also in the Godswood, Sansa notices that there is more power at night and this seems to echo Bran’s dream call to Jon about liking it in the dark.

We have more fears about Ser Ilyn Payne and there certainly seems to be some idea that he is waiting for.

Seems to parallel her father and Robert.

I wondered if it was Bloodraven or Bran showing disapproval and trying to get her to leave because maybe LF is there listening in on how he can manipulate her later.

I took this as her beginning to actually feel things due to part of Lady resides in her.

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I love this chapter. Several things to highlight from the analysis:

After Sansa receives the intriguing message, she recalls Septa Mordane and Jeyne Pool, wishing she had someone to talk to her and advise her. Well, she does get this in a way mere hours later with Dontos and the Hound. She can talk to Dontos about her wish to escape, and then she has Sandor to advise her not to be afraid of Boros Blount, and that she should lie better.

About going to the godswood, we see how afraid she is that it might just be a trap. And while some might call her foolish for deciding to try to go and find out even though she can get caught, I think she was really brave here. Despite knowing the danger, she’s been driven to the point where she wants to get away so badly that she is willing to take the risk. She may be afraid of the KG’s beating or Joff, but not that much about dying. She already thought of killing herself to after Ned’s killed and she thinks of throwing herself out the window and when she almost pushes Joff and herself to nothing in her last chapter of book 1. And now willing to kill herself if the situation requires it, thus she takes the knife along both for protection and something more sinister if the worst comes to pass... it is really so sad to see this. A twelve year old thinking about this when all she ever wanted was the life of a song, and her only mistake was that she was too innocent and young and unaware of the game of thrones. And I think that since at this point she is still adapting and coping with the turn her life has taken, she can’t really even consider the possibility of doing something to save herself rather than depending on someone.

In my opinion Sansa began to feel more connected to the old gods because of Lady. She reminds me more of Ned than Cat, so she just needed something to take off the mask of the “only like the seven” for her to start the connection with her Stark roots.

Even though both Arya and Sansa lost their wolves, it is clear that they are meant to be pretected after this. But since Nymeria is still alive, this might be why Arya has Syrio to help her. Along with Yoren, Gendry, Hot Pie, then Tom the singer and Harwin, Lord Beric, Thoros and all the other Brotherhood without banners guys. And even Sandor! And now I guess the kindly man., and in the upcoming book that guy she is going to be sent to for more training, whose name I can’t remember.

But since Lady is lost, she has only had Sandor, Dontos and LF... seems sort of unfair.

The “She can no longer be Sansa Stark. She must be a modified version that always watches what she says,” bit is quite interesting. The Sansa we knew from book one is now gone and we may never see her again. Maybe it was easier for her to become Alayne after all the practice she got from this new modified version of herself. Her days of careless thoughts and actions are dead and she must start to be aware of everything she can happening around her. Sort of tiresome to think this could be until the end of her days. LF may have wanted to live like that or Varys, but as Sansa said, she never wanted this.

Maybe LF was in the godswood, but I’m not sure about this. I suppose he could’ve risk the first meeting without being seen though...

And now about the Hound!! In this chapter Sansa is more at Sandor’s mercy. He takes a hold on her and won’t let her go even though she asks him to do so nicely since she is hurting her. But when we get to the rooftop scene (sorry for getting ahead) we see her demanding him to let her go. It shows how more confident she’s grown around him. And poor Sandor! He must have been unconsciously building himself castles-in-the-air where Sansa sang him a song. But thanks to the wine he finally got the guts to “ask” her for it.

And I like how he took her back all the way to her rooms himself (again), in case fell into some trouble. Sansa may not have Lady anymore to protect her, but her hound is waiting to take up the job eagerly! And just as he says that a dog will never lie to her, she asked him about why he let people call him a dog and he answered her honestly. So at least with Sansa he is keeping to his word all the time. Meaning that with Arya and even Sansa the night of the hand’s tourney with the (if you tell anyone, I’ll kill you), there is only barking to him, no biting.

I have sort of notice that a lot of times Sandor’s mouth twitches when he is lying. Here it would be when he says Joff is a brave boy... Yeah right!

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I miss the chapter I of ACOK but of your conversation it came out the giant slaying by Sansa. I believe that it had already happened, that it is only what Sansa did in the Nest with the toy of Sweetrobin and her snow Winterfell. That it will no happen nothing more. Anyway with all the prophecies I´m very bad analyzing them.

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For this chapter I just want to point some things.

1.- Don´t you think it is strange that those people went to the castle to ask for something of the wedding? I always have that thought that they were sended by LF (you know how he can use people and he probably knew that Sansa wouldn´t show up if she hadn´t the path "cleaned").

2.- It is the first time that she prayed at the trees for a knight. And always that she said something like that after Sandor appeared. It is as the Gods listen Sansa in rewards of Sandor. They had also a "religous" connection. Sandor it is send to the QI cause she wanted his redemption (she prayed for that, the song that she sang him is about that, and Dondarrion´s people mocked that they left the Seven to redemp someone: they didn´t know that was Sandor the one to).

3.- Ser Dontos can´t be her "true knight" cause he is all the time telling lies to her. But she finally decided to trust him, not due to him, on the contraire, due to the fact that it is her only possibility.

4.- I like when Sansa went back and kissed the chick of Ser Dontos (even with all the drunk veins that he had). I noticed that before kissing him, she closed her eyes. I really think that when she was going to be kissed by The Hound, she closed her eyes not as a rejection, just as a normal behaviour.

5.- LF gets all my hates from here, when he makes the rescue of Sansa a long time rescue. By means of Dontos, he told her to be patient, very patient. So he was weating the best time, not for her, but for him to take advantage.

6.- Here we have the third time that The Hound touched Sansa (first one on the road, second one after the tourney´s dinner). And it is also the third one that stopped her to fall (first one after the tourney´s dinner and second one in the battement with Joffrey). And he made here a remark that he knew that she wanted to fall with Joffrey.

7.- After looking at his face, it is when he got suspicious, so he is able of reading really good Sansa reactions and features. Maybe he got the first jelousy bit, that is the reason he shaked her.

8.- All his references at her looks as a woman, it shows that he is beginning to desire her, but he keep remembering that she is not yet a woman.

9.- The Sing me a Song = Love me. I don´t know but always that I read him saying look at me or sing me, I associate that as if he is telling her to love him.

10.- The Hound again touched her in the shoulder as protecting her in front of Ser Boros.

11.- Good appreciation of the lips of The Hound when he lies. Anyway I also believe that here he is mockering of Joffrey as if he knew that he is a coward. How Sansa can tell all the times when he tourches his lips if she is "not looking" at him? He wants more, he wants to be look through.

12.- And there is again The Hound touching her making her to look straight to him. When he is asking again for his song. He doesn´t want really a Knight song, he wants a song from her anyone, but that he will keeped as a treasor. I don´t believe that he is asking songs to all the court Ladies. I believe it is the first time that he wants that a Lady sings to him. And he send a threat.

Sometimes I also have this appretiation that the song is also a kiss, that he is demanding a kiss from her.

13.- Another really good appretiation of the bound between Lady and The Hound trou smeeling lies.

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For this chapter I just want to point some things.

1.- Don´t you think it is strange that those people went to the castle to ask for something of the wedding? I always have that thought that they were sended by LF (you know how he can use people and he probably knew that Sansa wouldn´t show up if she hadn´t the path "cleaned").

Excellent point, bgona! I took it for granted but you may be right. It was just the thing that LF knew would anger Joff and bring the KG running.

4.- I like when Sansa went back and kissed the chick of Ser Dontos (even with all the drunk veins that he had). I noticed that before kissing him, she closed her eyes. I really think that when she was going to be kissed by The Hound, she closed her eyes not as a rejection, just as a normal behaviour.

Again, I didn't even notice this, but this is a great catch. She's accustomed to closing her eyes when kissing, and I don't think we can argue that she finds Dontos any more appealing than Sandor.

5.- LF gets all my hates from here, when he makes the rescue of Sansa a long time rescue. By means of Dontos, he told her to be patient, very patient. So he was weating the best time, not for her, but for him to take advantage.

Yeah, LF is all about maximising his pawns. Take down Joffrey, along with Tyrion and then rescue Sansa.

6.- Here we have the third time that The Hound touched Sansa (first one on the road, second one after the tourney´s dinner). And it is also the third one that stopped her to fall (first one after the tourney´s dinner and second one in the battement with Joffrey). And he made here a remark that he knew that she wanted to fall with Joffrey.

It is a very touchy-feely relationship for sure. Normally made up of the Hound touching her "gently" or grabbing her. Here we see him preventing her from falling, which becomes sort of a pattern.

7.- After looking at his face, it is when he got suspicious, so he is able of reading really good Sansa reactions and features. Maybe he got the first jelousy bit, that is the reason he shaked her.

His line about "And I'm no knight" certainly sounded like a petulant boy :)

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Excellent point, bgona! I took it for granted but you may be right. It was just the thing that LF knew would anger Joff and bring the KG running.

Again, I didn't even notice this, but this is a great catch. She's accustomed to closing her eyes when kissing, and I don't think we can argue that she finds Dontos any more appealing than Sandor.

Yeah, LF is all about maximising his pawns. Take down Joffrey, along with Tyrion and then rescue Sansa.

It is a very touchy-feely relationship for sure. Normally made up of the Hound touching her "gently" or grabbing her. Here we see him preventing her from falling, which becomes sort of a pattern.

His line about "And I'm no knight" certainly sounded like a petulant boy :)

He is a jerk and the sentence about beating her to teach her is terrible! I believe that even he understood that he went to far, and he blame that he was too drunk (not, that it is not an excuse, after saying the words I´m sure that he is telling how badly he had acted). He changed the conversation cause he felt guilty of being a jerk.

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Bgona, yes, you’re totally right in everything! LF must have sent the rebels up to the castle! Wow, this guy is really smart. I admire him very much. If he only hadn’t gone weird on sansa... and since the old gods are looking over sansa, they had to send her the long-awaited knight. And about the closing her eyes when she thought the kiss was about to happen... sansa may be young and way too over-romantic in some things, but seriously, you know or at least feel if someone is about to kiss you, so i bet sandor was going to. Sansa is really good at sensing ser illyn, so why not the moment when she waa about to be kissed?

And brashcandy, you’re right. I might’ve not been that severed upon wishing LF’s fall if he had only changed his priorities: joffrey, tyrion, then sansa? Come on, man!

Yes, i bet sandor got a tiny wee jealous here, but the shaking part was also him wanting to know where she’d been, so if she had been somewhere dangerous or suspicious, then he could’ve told her off and then think on a backup plan in case joff found out or something. And yes, the song also meant love me. But he is realistic to a point, so he knows that it may never happen to him, so he brings himself back to reality by saying, “Like all those knights you love... and I am no knight, no more than I’m a lord.” I wonder if they’ll be making the “look at me” issue that big on the t.v. show..? so far sophie does look up at rory whenever they’re together, and it would look weird on camera if she kept avoiding his looks, so will this decision affect or improve the relationship? Is the soul of their relationship based on the look-at-me stuff?

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It is a very touchy-feely relationship for sure. Normally made up of the Hound touching her "gently" or grabbing her. Here we see him preventing her from falling, which becomes sort of a pattern.

It seems to me that almost all of Sandor's interactions with Sansa involve him trying to keep her from falling, either literally or figuratively. :)

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I wonder if they’ll be making the “look at me” issue that big on the t.v. show..? so far sophie does look up at rory whenever they’re together, and it would look weird on camera if she kept avoiding his looks, so will this decision affect or improve the relationship? Is the soul of their relationship based on the look-at-me stuff?

Yeah, I think they will focus on the whole looking, not looking aspect. It's probably the safest way to establish something between them without freaking out viewers right now.

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He is a jerk and the sentence about beating her to teach her is terrible! I believe that even he understood that he went to far, and he blame that he was too drunk (not, that it is not an excuse, after saying the words I´m sure that he is telling how badly he had acted). He changed the conversation cause he felt guilty of being a jerk.

In an almost humerous way, Sandor's speeches to Sansa remind me of the little boy on the playground who has a crush on a cute little girl, but cannot find any way to express them other than pushing her off the slide or pulling her hair. This is definitely not a man with any experience in romance, and his feelings seem to somehow regress him into a child with his first (very frightening) crush.

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It seems to me that almost all of Sandor's interactions with Sansa involve him trying to keep her from falling, either literally or figuratively. :)

That's a good way to put it :) especially since he's fallen so low already. But there are some posters like MDIND who believe he's out to deliberately destroy that innocence, crush it almost.

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BTW, is anyone sympathetic to Dontos? We know in this chapter that he's working for LF, but is there anything genuine about his desire to help Sansa?

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I personally believe that Dontos was utterly sincere in his desire to help Sansa. Every meeting they had risked his neck as well. And as far as the money goes - well, what was he supposed to do, go back to the castle and resume being a jester? His life expectancy could have been clocked with an egg timer once Sansa was discovered missing. He would have needed some sort of stake to escape and set himself up as far from Westeros as possible. IMO that was not an unreasonable recompense for all the risks he had taken on LF's behalf in meeting with Sansa personally, and the money was probably LF's suggestion in the first place.

I don't believe for a second that he would have betrayed or tried to sell Sansa again. Now, was there a possibility he might have gotten drunk and run his mouth someday? Maybe ...but LF could have kept his own connection with it all secret from Dontos if he'd wanted to, and that would have eliminated any danger to himself, or anyone being able to track down Sansa via Dontos. Clearly LF simply intended for Sansa to see him as her one and only savior, and to do that he had to get Dontos out of the way and ascribe a mercenery purpose to him for Sansa.

For me, Dontos is another innocent pawn to lay at the doorstep of LF's ruthlessness.

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<snip..about dontos...snip>

I definitely agree with this. We have no idea what happened behind the scenes between LF and Dontos, but I know LF wouldn't trust him with the truth of the plan or his motives. LF probably led Dontos believe that he wanted to get Sansa out to help her, and that the only way to do that was to follow the plan he laid out. Of course, he would have offered Dontos something too, and the prize probably sealed the deal as far as getting Dontos on board (we know from a couple of chapters ago that Dontos is not the most courageous soul).

I'm sure it's really disheartening for Sansa to find out later that money was involved in it at all, because that's just not chivalrous, and of course horrifying to watch him be murdered, but as Lady of the North pointed out, it wouldn't make much sense for Dontos to refuse the money once it was offered, because he basically had nothing. And the fact is, there is no way LF would have betrayed to him any part of the plan. Dontos wouldn't know why LF wanted Sansa, would just be told that his intentions were good. I don't think he was told that the hairnet contained poison, just told to make sure Sansa wears it, or some lie that didn't give away any part of the plan about Joffrey. So in this sense, Dontos probably thought that everything he was doing was really going to save Sansa, not deliver her into the hands of another monster. It wasn't a betrayal, but a genuine effort to help her on his part, even though he was taking money for it. I don't think the payment negates his good intentions entirely, it just adds some context.

ETA:

I really feel bad for Dontos as well. He probably thought that he was going to be saved from the hell that was his life at KL, but instead, LF just discarded him after he had no more use for him.

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I personally believe that Dontos was utterly sincere in his desire to help Sansa. Every meeting they had risked his neck as well. And as far as the money goes - well, what was he supposed to do, go back to the castle and resume being a jester? His life expectancy could have been clocked with an egg timer once Sansa was discovered missing. He would have needed some sort of stake to escape and set himself up as far from Westeros as possible. IMO that was not an unreasonable recompense for all the risks he had taken on LF's behalf in meeting with Sansa personally, and the money was probably LF's suggestion in the first place.

I don't believe for a second that he would have betrayed or tried to sell Sansa again. Now, was there a possibility he might have gotten drunk and run his mouth someday? Maybe ...but LF could have kept his own connection with it all secret from Dontos if he'd wanted to, and that would have eliminated any danger to himself, or anyone being able to track down Sansa via Dontos. Clearly LF simply intended for Sansa to see him as her one and only savior, and to do that he had to get Dontos out of the way and ascribe a mercenery purpose to him for Sansa.

For me, Dontos is another innocent pawn to lay at the doorstep of LF's ruthlessness.

I feel terribly sorry for Dontos. Yes, he was a drunk; but I think he meant well for Sansa; and genuinely wanted to help her. He has lost everything in his life; parents, family; and even his reputation; and this sad, badly treated little girl sticks her neck out to save his life; I think he felt he could at least partially redeem himself by getting Sansa out of King's Landing. Remember, he cleans himself up and puts on more knightly attire when he finally comes to take her out of the city; and Sansa is surprised, and Dontos said he wanted to do this as a knight or something (don't have ASOS handy) - it's so sad. There was definitely a chance that Dontos would have babbled out the truth while drunk, or at least made some reference to it; but I'm not sure he would have sold out Sansa for more booze. Littlefinger could have paid him off and sent him to Sothyros or even imprisoned him for a few years; that would have been better than killing him.

I agree that Littlefinger wanted Sansa to see him as her only savior and confidant; remember he took pains to disparage Tyrion to her as well, when Sansa expressed some regret over Tyrion being left to take the fall for Joffrey's murder. Littlefinger is ruthless when it comes to his pawns - Dontos, Lysa - and I think Sansa knows that (sorry for getting ahead of the reading here).

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Hi all! New poster here. I have been lurking around the forum for a few months but never posted before. There is so much info and insights here that I have been trying to take it all in and didn't want to jump in in the middle of a conversation. However, I have been following this thread since pretty much the beginning as it coincided with my reading AGOT for the second time and I have found Sansa's storyline to be very intriguing. Thank you, by the way, Rapsie and Brashcandy for doing this. I have really been enjoying it.

Wow, doing a second read has been so enlightening. It really allows you to spot foreshadowing of things that happen later in the books that I wouldn't have noticed before. For instance, when Sansa thinks in her last GOT chapter how she wishes some hero would throw down Janos Slynt on a block and chop of his head I was floored! That was amazing. I gues GRRM really does have a plan.

Good comments above on the whole touchy feely thing going on with the Hound and Sansa. I noticed that too in this chapter that he takes her chin in his hand and forces her to look at his face again. This is the second time, the first being in the field after the Hand's tourney. And yes, I am sypathetic to Dontos as well but I'll save those comments for the next chapter (the gutwrenching one where Joff has Sansa beaten) because that is where he really endeared himself to me.

But the main thing I wanted to ask everyone about here is the little bit about the Hound lurching out of a hidden doorway causing Sansa to careen into him. It just seems too coincidental to me that he happens to be coming out of a doorway in the same place at the exact same moment that Sansa is coming by. Was he looking for her? It also is reminiscent of the scene in Sansa's first GOT chapter when she "backs into" him and he puts his hand on her shoulder. What was he doing so close to her that she backs into him? Is he stalking her even from way back then? OK maybe stalking is too strong a word but he definitely appears to be dogging (he he - pun intended) her. Then, after she runs into him on the steps he makes the curious comments about how all a man needs is good wine or a woman and commenting on her appearance. Well, he's already drunk by then and I wonder if he was seeking her out to fulfill his other manly need, but then decided she was still too little and didn't do anything about it. Actually, I have this mental image now of the Hound going to Sansa's room every so often to sneak in on her and watch her sleep. She can't lock her door in Maegor's from the inside, right?

Speaking of her room in Maegor's holdfast, she says it's the highest room in the tallest tower or something close to that and it so reminded me of Shreck. Princess Fiona, another redhead, is waiting in the highest room of the tallest tower for her charming prince to save her and when she is "saved", it's by a big, antisocial oaf. Maybe GRRM wrote the script for Shreck too! (kidding).

Oh and I really enjoyed the discussion upthread about Littlefinger's comment that Life is not a song, but the title of the series is "A Song of Ice and Fire" so songs are really important. I sing as a hobby and songs and music are very important to me (in case you couldn't tell by my user name) so I totally identify with this aspect of Sansa's personality.

Anyway, keep the great insights coming peeps!

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Welcome Elba the Intoner!! :)

I'm glad you chose to make this thread your first stop, and I certainly hope you'll be a regular contributor. I'll be posting the other chapter on Monday, so you can look out for that. Yes, they've been some really great insights that have come about since this re-read, and Rapsie and I have been very pleased with how it's developing. There's so much about Sansa that one can miss on a first read, and little details like the one bgona highlighted when she closes her eyes to kiss Dontos, always seem to have later relevance to her arc. Sansa's development, which for some reason I had in my mind as being slow moving, now appears on re-read to be actually fairly rapid. She's no Margaery Tyrell in terms of a seemingly natural game player and sophisticate, but she's adapted to her new status and learnt to read signs of danger really well. So, yes, it's exciting to be on this journey and see what other revelations we'll come across.

Concerning your questions about Sandor, I do think it wasn't a coincidence that he suddenly sprang out the doorway as you said. Also, this got to me to thinking that the Hound seems to know a lot about the secret passages and doorways in the Red Keep - I wonder if this will play a factor later on, or if he learnt other secrets hiding out, or passed out :) in these areas. I believe his interest in Sansa began in earnest in the final chapter of AGOT. He saw a strength and fighting spirit in her character, and I do think he began to see her in a different light. His support of her in the first Sansa of ACOK shows that he's interested in protecting her and we see this again in this current chapter when he defends her to Boros Blount and reassures her when she's afraid of the burly KG knight. This is also the second time where we see Sandor opening up to her and sharing some of his family history. And Sansa isn't afraid to question him about why he insists on people calling him a dog. I think this shared openness is important, as it allows them to develop a closer understanding even if remains her tormentor's sworn shield.

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts about Dontos in the upcoming chaper, and again, welcome to the board.

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@ Elba the Intoner

I've noted before that IMO as soon as the word got out back in Winterfell that Joff and Sansa were betrothed, the Hound started watching over her, which is why he was behind her to bump into at their stop on the Trident, and why he keeps popping up. Of course, as their interactions increase, and the relationship develops, his watchfulness increases.

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I haven't posted on this topic in a long while either but I've very much enjoyed reading everyone's nuanced commentary on who Sansa is as a person and where her story might go. I really have little to add! One of the things I didn't pick up on as much from the first read is that even in book one Sansa acts as comforting "mother" to someone (Jeyne.) Obviously this role is more explored with Sweetrobin, but it renews my hopes that Sansa's destiny is tied up in nurturing people--like maybe her brother Rickon, which is my unabashed hope for her and the Stark family. :P

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I haven't posted on this topic in a long while either but I've very much enjoyed reading everyone's nuanced commentary on who Sansa is as a person and where her story might go. I really have little to add! One of the things I didn't pick up on as much from the first read is that even in book one Sansa acts as comforting "mother" to someone (Jeyne.) Obviously this role is more explored with Sweetrobin, but it renews my hopes that Sansa's destiny is tied up in nurturing people--like maybe her brother Rickon, which is my unabashed hope for her and the Stark family. :P

Hey Chavalah :) I was wondering where you had gone. Yes, I do think Sansa will be the one to actually become a mother. She's extremely nurturing, can put people at ease, and has already expressed a desire for a family many times. In that chapter when her father tells her she has to leave KL, it is the thing that most distresses her - not her desire to be a Queen and rule people, but not getting a chance to give Joff that perfect family.

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