Lord Paramount of Essos Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 you cannot draw a great sword from your back. it is immposible, try it. In movies the drawing from back part is always editied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 @lordparamountofessos You cant even draw a longsword from your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pallantides Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I've seen it, but saying the difference in weight is negligible when speaking of a sword the size of Ice is just plain wrong. Ice would be much wider than that sword and not nearly as thin. Watch how it flops around on certain shots. That thing would break if it was used in battle.Also take note that that sword has been abused to heck. While it flops around in certain shots (you should also take notice that all swords that are not specially stiffened will flex in slow motion shots. The important part is not the flex, but rather that it returns to it's original shape. This prevents the sword from breaking), it was after being put through very strenuous things that no sword would realistically go through. It's call destructive testing, and nothing is impervious to breaking. That sword would be perfectly fine in battle.As for a sword the size of ice, it's not exactly what I would call realistic sword dimensions. But even still, it requires a certain amount of heft in order to do the things it's required to do. If Ice is that large and only weighs 1.5 to 2 pounds, you've effectively removed one of the requirements that a blade has to fulfill as noted by Ewart Oakeshott “The blade of a [cutting] sword has to fulfill three requirements: it must have reasonable weight at the centre of percussion, or optimal striking point; at the same place it must have reasonable breadth; and its section must be flat. You cannot shear through flesh and bone with a thick blade with an edge at an obtuse angle. You need a blade of flat section, with a fine edge coming off at an extremely acute angle.” (Oakeshott, European Weapons and Armour, p.137). The less a weapon weighs, the less force it will have on impact at any given speed. It's basic physics, it cannot really be argued otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Rivers Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I don't think Ice was used by Ned in combat. The way it is described would lead me to believe that the Stark family sword is used in more of a ceremonious manner. He use it for beheadings and mostly just sat under trees and polished it afterwards. Not to say that all greatswords in ASOIAF were used in this manner. We know that Gregor an Arthur Dayne used their greatswords in the line of duty but being as Ned never recalls matching Ice against Dawn I don't think it was in his usual bag of tools. Again this is only speculation and I'm not ruling out that he ever used it in battle or that previous Starks didn't use it.Also yes, Valyrian steel is lighter than normal steel so a greatsword made of VS would be lighter than a regular one. Probably be the same weight as a regular longsword in my estimation.The difference of a couple pounds is huge in a battle. If a Valyrian steel sword is half the weight than the wielder could fight much longer because he wouldn't be expending as much energy. I'd have to assume Ice was light for a greatsword since Ned made a point to make a comparison with the weight of Robert's hammer.Swords are already very light. They need what weight they have, because they are weapons. They are meant to cut, crush, bludgeon and cleave. As for its use in battle, I am pretty sure it's what Ned would wield when fighting on foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolGirlsMurderFriend Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'd wager that Ice would way about the same as a normal sized two handed sword. A sword of its dimensions would be heavier than hell.If you can't swing a weapon repeatedly it does you no good. Weight matters, there is a point where a weapon ways too much. Of course this is dependent upon the user, ala Robert's Warhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Rivers Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 A sword of its dimensions would be heavier than hell. Swords aren't particularly heavy weapons no matter how you look at it. Although Ice does seem too large for average steel - it would likely lack structural strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolGirlsMurderFriend Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Swords aren't particularly heavy weapons no matter how you look at it. Although Ice does seem too large for average steel - it would likely lack structural strength.They may not be heavy to hold for a minute, but try swinging a greatsword like the one in the video for an hour straight. Especially if you're making contact constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolGirlsMurderFriend Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 What i'm saying is a sword that is supposed to be the size of Ice would benefit greatly if it only weighed as much as a traditional twohanded sword. Otherwise it'd be too unwieldy to use in battle for most people who aren't Robert or a Clegane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pallantides Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Easy to figure out the weight of Ice with a simple formula. V = L x W x HSteel has a density of roughly 0.284 pounds per cubic inch.Obviously the dimensions are not given perfectly, but it's described as being taller than an adolescent Robb Stark and wide as a man's hand. So I'm going to be taking some averages here.Average male handspan is roughly 7.5 inches.Average adolescent height is 69 inches (5.8 feet).Average thickness of a sword's blade is 0.125 inchesV = 7.5 x 69 x 0.125V = 64.68 cubic inches.Weight = 64.68 x 0.284Weight = 18.37 pounds.Therefore, if Ice were made of modern steel, with these dimensions (which are averages and not very specific at all) it would weigh 18.37 pounds. Very heavy sword. So in this regards, Valyrian steel with its "reduced" weight would likely be significant and helpful. However in the realm of one handed swords, or swords with realistic dimensions (the only one which is realistic in this matter is the thickness), this "advantage" does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I can only assume that Ice was indeed a "great" sword, given that Tywin had it melted down and forged into two ordinary swords - Oathbreaker, and Widows Wail. Oathbreaker had to be of a suitable size and weight for Jaime to use in combat, and that still apparently left enough steel to forge the WW for Joffrey/Tommen.That probably gives some idea of how big Ice was, so it was probably carried by Ned's squire until he needed to use it in battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I wondered about this too - and received many helpful answers on another forum, which you can view here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/68394-where-do-all-these-medieval-weapons-experts-come-from/page__p__3283128#entry3283128I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masamune Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Same dealie for a nodachi?A character from my own fictional work uses a sword similar in design, albeit with a slightly thicker blade than Japanese smithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Herman Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yeah, it is impossible to draw a sword from your back unless you:1. Have a really short sword (then why would you keep it on your back?)2. Have a specially designed scabbard, something which would be very annoying. I noticed that in the TV show, they realised that drawing the sword like that was impossible, so they had someone hold it out for Ser Ilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yeah it's impossible to draw a greatsword like that. I collapse into fits of laughter whenever I picture Ser Ilyn or Jon or Ned struggling to draw a sword from over their shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearIslander Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Drawing swords from one's back is a stupid ninja movie thing that could become popular only in the world where most people are totally ignorant about swordsmanship. It was Duncan McLeod who could draw his sword from anywhere, even from a speedo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupis42 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 This is more akin to what you'd be using http://www.freewebs.com/northstarzone/101923.jpg http://www.silvermane.com/acatalog/DH-BL105-lowland-backhanger.html would work also, but you can't see the back. Generally, when not mounted a greatsword doesn't have a full scabbard. Those work very well. I'd wager that Ice would way about the same as a normal sized two handed sword. A sword of its dimensions would be heavier than hell. 13 lbs. I had one of these I used to practice for a while. Makes a more traditional claymore feel quite light. http://www.starfireswords.com/products/steel/detail/cly48.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If you are short of space, greatswords are very impractical. For such close combats, a murmillo type gear (gladius with a scutum) gives the best attack and defense. It is very easy to aim critical arteries with a gladius and I just love that stunning smite attacks with the shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearIslander Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If you are short of space, greatswords are very impractical. That's why a landsknecht had a katzbalger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If you are short of space, greatswords are very impractical. For such close combats, a murmillo type gear (gladius with a scutum) gives the best attack and defense. It is very easy to aim critical arteries with a gladius and I just love that stunning smite attacks with the shield. There you either go into halfsword or draw your dagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat King Robert Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 You cannot draw a sword from your back becaus not only would the motion leave you exposed but the sword is longer then your arm, meaning its impossible. You would have to remove the sheath. No, it's not impossible. It all depends on the scabbard. http://www.thecelticcroft.com/Weaponry/back_scabbard.gif http://www.freewebs.com/northstarzone/101923.jpg http://www.sjleather.com/osCommerce/images/backscabbard.jpg http://astor-versand.eshop.t-online.de/WebRoot/Store6/Shops/Shop10643/476A/1B23/5E6C/7CC9/C87D/AC14/500B/7371/85339-m.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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