[Book & TV Spoilers] What Are the Others?

[Nelapsi]

I don't recall that Ser Waymar Royce was "forced" to go, and nor was Donal Noye. Conversely there are actually very few on the Wall identified as Northmen. There are some, certainly, but the majority are from down south.

As to the Wal, it is as Mel say, a hinge, its a magical barrier. There's even a heretical school of thought that the ice forming the visible Wall isn't actually the barrier at all, but Winter piled up against the magical one like hoar frost on a window pane.

I like this heresy so much I actually started clapping lol

[The Dragon has three heads]

I resist this idea that the CotF and The Others share a genetic origin. The Others are built like warriors, CotF like... well, children. Is a split in ideology really enough to warrant some kind of bizarre magical fast-track evolution, where the bad guys come out big and tough and the good guys remain dwarfs? If this were true, shouldn't they have matching eyes at the very least? As I recall, The Others have human-shaped white eyes and the CotF some wierd alien peepers. Based on their size and appearance alone, I think the most probable origin of The Others is that they were once human. They have certainly aged.

Try this: perhaps the CotF turned some First Men that way as a punishment or something and then couldn't control the monster they'd made and have been trying to make up for it ever since?

It doesn't preclude it though, perhaps part of a society of disparate races until some event caused a schism.

I am also into the idea of a cyclic long night, the celestial foreshadowing, commet etc all could be part of it.

Coupled with the messed up timelines, the seven incarnate and your multiple AA and Lightbringer possibilities, there's a larger game going on...or I'm just crazy...

[King's Ruin]

perhaps part of a society of disparate races until some event caused a schism.

That's not a bad explanation at all. As in, the CotF and the Others were once friends who co-operated together and then had a fall out? I like that much more than the idea they were originally CotF themselves

[The Great Cornholio!]

That's not a bad explanation at all. As in, the CotF and the Others were once friends who co-operated together and then had a fall out? I like that much more than the idea they were originally CotF themselves

They dont look at all like the description of the COTF. Although theres no way to tell how far the show deviated from what martin visioned until they show a COTF on the show. I think we're going to have to wait a few years for that.

[The Dragon has three heads]

They dont look at all like the description of the COTF. Although theres no way to tell how far the show deviated from what martin visioned until they show a COTF on the show. I think we're going to have to wait a few years for that.

Cousins.

Distant ones. Warped by Nerco magic.

Thats my vibe.

[Thaune]

Sorry for the necro bump, just a quick question...

Re-reading ADWD right now, came across the Great Other reference, he who shall not be named (by both Mel and Moqorro).

Has his name ever been mentioned in any anthologies/stories, or are there any guesses as to who/what it is?

[I know I know]

Sorry for the necro bump, just a quick question...

Re-reading ADWD right now, came across the Great Other reference, he who shall not be named (by both Mel and Moqorro).

Has his name ever been mentioned in any anthologies/stories, or are there any guesses as to who/what it is?

No.

Some of us theorize that he's not a god, and neither is R'hllor.

[alienarea]

Sorry for the necro bump, just a quick question...

Re-reading ADWD right now, came across the Great Other reference, he who shall not be named (by both Mel and Moqorro).

Has his name ever been mentioned in any anthologies/stories, or are there any guesses as to who/what it is?

No.

Some of us theorize that he's not a god, and neither is R'hllor.

Then he is obviously Frank (played by Henry Fonda) from 'Once Upon A Time In The West'. When called Frank by a sidekick he shoots a boy (Bran?) saying "Thou shall not speak my name".

[Arya Stark Rules]

great theory

[Amris]

I just reread the prologue of ADWD, and I have a thought on its meaning. It was about warging into humans and living a second life through a warg connection after you die (in your main body). I am thinking this was a hint at what the Others are. Perhaps the Children warged First Men during the war, so if they were killed in combat, they lived on through the body of the First Man--it would take a powerful warg, but we haven't been given evidence of how powerful the Children were when they dominated Westeros--and they were able to retain their magical abilities. So when the First Men pushed the Children far into the North, the ones who "died" lived on through First Men in the North. So with their magic, these First Men (but actually Children) could better adapt and survive in the North, where the normal First Man would have trouble. Add in thousands of years, and you get what the Others are now.

Now the Children vs. the Others:

Having a second life in a human might have been seen as immoral, dishonorable, horrifying, etc. by the society of the Children. So perhaps by having that second life, the "Others" were seen as cheating death or abominations or something of the sort.

What if - instead of explaining how the Others came to be - this explains how the Starks originally came to their warging powers? Dying CotF warging into First Men and leaving some trace of their personality and magical ability in there?

[wolfmaid7]

wrong thread.

[TheSmallOther]

To know more about the Others we need to here more about the NightsKing and his love

John Snow was onto something with his idea of trying to experiment with the Dead in order to study them, but then placed them on the wrong side of The Wall :bang: , honestly he's told that the wall is more than a physical barrier but has magic defences too by both Mel and Sam and yet he's too thick to understand why his pet corpses aren't coming back to life

TBH I think were looking at a battle of elemental and opposing gods

Storm God (Air) vs Drowned God (Water)

Rhilor (Fire) vs ???? (Ice)

The question being is the Ice god related to the Others,

and is the Ice god related to The Stranger / he of Many Faces

Oh, but they should come back to life. Remember that wight who tried to kill Mormont?

Regarding elemental forces and corresponding gods, I recall one post made long ago, which basically looked like this:

- What will happen at the end of ASOIAF?

- Dragons will come to the Wall to fight White Walkers. You know, fire against ice.

- And then what?

- Well, basically all Westeros is covered by one big lake.

As you can see, water god has highest bid :)

[Zoip]

My 2ct: I think that Others aren't a natural species like the COTF are. More like avatars, physical manifestations of formless beings. Varamyr's prologue ( and Brans experience with the raven) told me that there is life after death on Planetos. We are not told what exactly happened to Varamyr's soul after his prologue. Sam's slaying of the Other told me that they are radically physically different from any other sentient being we see in the series. Someone in this thread also mentioned this wonderful idea of the wall being like hoarfrost on a window, the ice forming around an invisible magical barrier.

That got me thinking, what if the others are based on that sort of principle? That what we see is ice formed around a wandering soul like Varamyr's or a renegade COTF? Held together perhaps by a form of blood magic which requires (Craster's) babies. It would explain ser puddles a bit. Him dissolving as a consequence of magic being undone instead of a weird peanut allergy kind of reaction. It also puts some sense into why they are called "others" instead of something like giants or children. It's hard to put a label on something if the actual thing we're talking about is a formless being without a defined origin.

[dannyk65]

The Others are comprised of the island's indigenous people as well as memebrs of the Dharma Initiative

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The Others are either a sister race to the children which I doubt or they are the remains of people (souls) who call back from the dead .Bran showed that was possible when as a tree he contacted Eddard ,Jon and Theon .

[Ghosts Lunch]

I don't like this theory at all. The Starks are a dynasty of powerful human lords. Obviously the heroes of the story, I think it would be just too much to also make them the supernatural villains.

"Corrupted by ice magic". I just have to imagine Bran fighting one of them, then the Other telling him: "Bran... I am your grand grand grand grand...father."

Wouldn't like that, but still everything is possible.

Speaking as a Stark fan myself, I reckon there is some truth in that the Stark bloodline is important in there somehow, which is why I reckon they've abducted Benjen Stark in AGoT and the opposite is the HoU taking an interest in locking up Dany or Benerro pushing his followers into following Dany

There's an intricate relationship to Fire and Ice bloodlines

Eg the CoTF have probably quite deliberately incorporated someone with Targ blood (Fire) and now Stark blood through Bran (Ice) into the Weirnet (Earth) which means the magic in those bloodlines flows through it and can presumably be wielded in some way.

They are the ones who sing the song of the Earth, so I ultimately don't think the Others are "bad" children as such even though it is interesting as they sing the song of Ice/winter in effect, for mine they seem to be more interested in balancing out any form of extremities, which is why they smashed the arm of Dorne to prevent excess human migration which was upsetting the ecosystem and if the R'hlorrists and Fire forces in the far east were becoming excessively dominant they would probably work to mitigate this too. As it happens winter is coming so they are working to mitigate an onslought from the Others/Wights

Some people have done some excellent work on Asshai and Planetos and this comet, my guess is that the origin of the Others probably relates to the civilisation to the West of the Iron Islands that was sunk but is responsible for Seastone Chair and some other architecture (Citadel?) etc. Haven't really explored the World Book yet