What does Blackfish have against Jon Snow?

[Pod The Impaler]

But the NW can't release sworn brothers, ever, for any reason, no matter how much the Lord Commander may want to. It's just not done. This is one of its main principles, which allows criminals and nobles who have lost wars to be send there without fear they'll be back causing trouble one day,

Robb's 16 and he doesn't yet get the gravity of these sort of things (oaths and such). Plus he only remembers Jon, and has never known "Lord Snow".

I am really find it hilarious people are trying to use Catelyn as an excuse as to why Blackfish doesn't like him. Brynden is her freakin uncle. Do you honestly expect him not to have his own preconceived notions about bastards considering his age and his experiences? So one 'cool' character doesn't like another character you think its 'cool'. Big deal, this happens all the time in real life.

I think it is both. His closeness to Catelyn means it's her perspective on Jon Snow (bitterness and all) that he's getting.

But yeah, some of it is the general superstition about bastards being untrustworthy by nature, and about the men of the Night's Watch being generally sent there for being criminal or otherwise unsuitable for normal society, and last of all maybe his own experiences in war against Targaryen bastards.

He doesn't know Jon Snow, and there's no reference given that the Blackfish ever visited Winterfell after Catelyn moved there. I can forgive the Blackfish for thinking ill of Jon Snow, since he has no evidence to the contrary except Robb's faith in Jon.

[Porcelain Steel]

Again, though, it's Jaime that brings Jon up in conversation. The Blackfish doesn't need any greater reason to be negative about Jon than Jaime bringing him up as a positive thing. Sure, Brynden knew Catelyn's thoughts on the subject, but it needn't be that he had taken her mistrust to heart in order for him to use it to rebuff Jaime's suggestion.

I tend to agree with this viewpoint. While I find the idea that The Blackfish was trying to trick Jaime and is on his way to The Wall much more appealing, I didn't read it that way. It seems to me that when Jaime mentions Jon's being LC, he expects it to help entice Brynden to meet his terms and take the black, but instead it just makes him suspicious. It's at this point that he asks Jaime 'Did your lord father arrange for that as well'?-in the context of the conversation, Brynden's anger and mistrust seems genuine to me. As far as the 'paper shield' , I thought there was only one letter, which went to King's Landing? It's only referred to as ' A letter to King Tommen'. I'm not sure Blackfish could've heard about Jon aiding Stannis another way, but I don't think it would've been directly through that letter. Even if he had though, I don't see how it would make him count out the possibility of Jon's being 'bought' by Tywin- after all, the Freys aided Robb and in the end were not his men. In this instance, I tend to think the simpler explanation is the right one. That being said, I'd like it if I were wrong.

[icantstandgreyjoys]

Wasn't the Blackfish a bastard as well?

No he wasn't.

There was Black Walder Frey, and Walder Rivers and if I recall correctly they were mentioned together in some event, so maybe that's what you remember?

[somephoneme]

Jon was raised right alongside the trueborn Starks and was shown a huge amount of favor by Ned. Bastards don't usually get treated like "equal" members of the family, they're kept out of the family castle while trueborn heirs live (Ramsay Snow) or fostered out to bannermen (Laurence Snow). The only bastards I think we've been told were treated like trueborn children were the Great Bastards of Aegon the Unworthy, and Aegon got that nickname for a reason (and one (two, counting Bittersteel) of them did in fact end up posing a political risk to his trueborn brother). The Blackfish presumably knows the same history that Catelyn did (she expressly brought up the Blackfyre pretenders to Robb), so it wouldn't be at all odd for him to intuitively understand why Catelyn disliked Jon---paranoia, fear of what he could do, not what he necessarily would do.

Not only that, but Brynden was knighted and earned his earliest fame during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. He's had personal experience of the way that illegitimate lines can endanger succession.

[Dornish Hen]

I'm beginning to think that it might not be the question of why or why not the Blackfish mistrusts Jon, but that it's a vehicle to get Jaime the information of how much Cat mistrusted him. Presumably, Jaime is now with Cat and the BWB and the information that the Blackfish gave him might just help him out of a tight spot. I can't remember if Jaime knew the extent of Cat's hatred and mistrust for Jon.

[Dawn Age]

Where could The Blackfish be going? The Wall? I can't see him going to The Vale if he knows Littlefinger is the ruler. If he knows about The Will he will be looking for Lord Snow

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

But the NW can't release sworn brothers, ever, for any reason, no matter how much the Lord Commander may want to. It's just not done. This is one of its main principles, which allows criminals and nobles who have lost wars to be send there without fear they'll be back causing trouble one day,

He wasn't LC yet to the best of Robb's knowlage. And there must be a back door for alowing it, just one we haven't heard of yet.

[Ser Lepus]

Where could The Blackfish be going? The Wall? I can't see him going to The Vale if he knows Littlefinger is the ruler. If he knows about The Will he will be looking for Lord Snow

He could miscalculate his influence: He was Lysa's uncle, right hand man, trusted guardian and Knight of the Bloody Gate, and he remembers Littlefinger as a kid who looked up to him; maybe he thinks he can convince the Vale lords and Petyr to take Edmure's side.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

There's clearly people willing to go to war in the Vale. And the Blackfish definitely has credence there. I won't discard the Vale army card too quickly.

[Ice Turtle]

There's clearly people willing to go to war in the Vale. And the Blackfish definitely has credence there. I won't discard the Vale army card too quickly.

:agree: If he gains regency of Sweetrobin he will gain the Vale army.

[Sneak]

He could miscalculate his influence: He was Lysa's uncle, right hand man, trusted guardian and Knight of the Bloody Gate, and he remembers Littlefinger as a kid who looked up to him; maybe he thinks he can convince the Vale lords and Petyr to take Edmure's side.

:agree: I think he may be heading to the Vale. He has no reason to distrust Littlefinger; as said in the quote above, LF looked up to him and confided in him when he was young. AFAIK he has had no interaction with Littlefinger since he was sent back to the Fingers.

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

As for Robb's will, Robb didn't reveal it until just before his forces reached the Twins, and the Blackfish wasn't there, he was holding Riverrun. I don't think the Blackfish knew.

exacly

i remeber that part rly well , it was incase something was gonna happen to him at the twins Blackfish most likly had no clue about "the will"

He probably learned it after Edmure told him - if he told him, though I don't see why he wouldn't have. I don't think he could've known before, considering they signed it not too long before the wedding.

i don't think Edmure had nuff time to talk about such things like Robbs will ....

I think Blackfish is gonna meet un-Cat

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

The Blackfish was just bullshitting Jaime. The whole time he was planning his escape. If he recieved Jon's letter then he would know that Jon was not in league with the Lannisters by accepting Stannis at the Wall.

This is a good point ... there was no need to shoot down ravens in sige of riverrun (who will they send them too ? )

So most likly the Blackfish got the ravens from Snow (998th Commander of the NW)

[Batman]

Prejudice

[Volantis]

"I will permit you to take the black. Ned Stark's bastard is the Lord Commander on the Wall."

The Blackfish narrowed his eyes. "Did your father arrange for that as well? Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both..."

There you answered your own question.

Blackfish has never met Jon. He only knows about Jon from Catelyn who hated the boy.

[Lord BitterRaven]

"I will permit you to take the black. Ned Stark's bastard is the Lord Commander on the Wall."

The Blackfish narrowed his eyes. "Did your father arrange for that as well? Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both..."

There you answered your own question.

Blackfish has never met Jon. He only knows about Jon from Catelyn who hated the boy.

This is what I don't get. Robb legitimizes Jon and demands his lords to put their seal to it, which means that the Blackfish knew Robb's intentions. So why the hatred toward Jon? Even if the Blackfish disagreed with Robb's choice, he doesn't strike me as the type to stand idle and do nothing while his King's last decree goes unfulfilled or am I wrong?

My guess is that Martin made an attention to detail mistake and needed a reason for the Blackfish to spurn jaime to hide an ulterior motive. Which I think means he's either heading north where all the other betrayers were going or he's gonna meet up with the BWB.

Why couldn't he be the hooded man in Winterfell? He's a sneaky little bastard afterall

[DJE]

I think he just dislikes him because of Catelyn, as far as I know they have never met

[Poorboy78]

Think of it like this, your niece married a husband but he brought a child he got after he was wed to her home. Would you be okay with that?

[The Wolves]

Think of it like this, your niece married a husband but he brought a child he got after he was wed to her home. Would you be okay with that?

Is it any of his business?

Yeah it sucks for Cat but who is the Blackfish to comment on Ned Stark's bastard?

[Lady Winter Rose]

This is what I don't get. Robb legitimizes Jon and demands his lords to put their seal to it, which means that the Blackfish knew Robb's intentions. So why the hatred toward Jon?

That's the thing - he didn't. Case closed.