ME3. Indoctrination Theory, Spoilers abound. You have been warned.

[Fez]

As good as an actual ending would be, that's still some bullshit. I shelled out 60 dollars for this game and those assholes are going to make me download the actual ending? I don't even have live so I would have to get a subscription just to get the real ending. It really does suck because up until the last 10 minutes this was one of the best games I've ever played. I think that shows just how bad the ending was if everyone was loving it and it only took 10 minutes to destroy everything we played for.

Yes, well its clear now that that isn't what Bioware intended. I'm not sure if all the hints about indoctrination were coincidence or (more likely) the player was supposed to easily come to the conclusion that Shepard was indoctrinated at the end if they wanted to, however the ending itself would be kept vague enough that players could imagine the ending to basically be whatever they want. Which, in my opinion, is a terrible idea; if you're gonna make people follow a story for 80 hours over 3 games and 5 years, give them a damn ending.

And it would appear we are eventually going to get one. EP/Lead Director Casey Hudson just posted a message over at the BSN, the money shot being:

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.

I am extremely proud of what this team has accomplished, from the first art concepts for the Mass Effect universe to the final moments of Mass Effect 3. But we didn't do it on our own. Over the course of the series, Mass Effect has been a shared experience between the development team and our fans—not just a shared experience in playing the games, but in designing and developing them. An outpouring of love for Garrus and Tali led to their inclusion as love interests in Mass Effect 2. A request for deeper RPG systems led to key design changes in Mass Effect 3. Your feedback has always mattered. Mass Effect is a collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen.

So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new content. And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.

They've also been asking fans, both on the official forums and through twitter, to give them feedback on exactly what they want; excel-spreadsheet ready suggestions whenever possible. So, assuming this isn't just a PR stunt to keep the masses at bay until things blow over (which would probably destroy any change of Dragon Age III selling well at all; not good to alienate your core fanbase like that), it would appear that there will be ending DLC at some point several months down the line. Or, if the EA suits decide its a better moneymaker, a full expansion a la DA: Awakenings.

[So1ar]

lol this didn't take long

also, I wish Mordin wrote the ending for Mass Effect...because you know...someone else might have gotten it wrong.

[Sivin]

lol this didn't take long

also, I wish Mordin wrote the ending for Mass Effect...because you know...someone else might have gotten it wrong.

Well, if we're doing ^this^, then I've got to share

[Jon AS]

Well, if we're doing ^this^, then I've got to share

:lmao:

"I saw... I'm not sure what I saw..."

[Scuba Steve]

Edit: And I was beaten to it. Writing posts at 3 AM is not good. :blushing:

Edit2: Also, we all know the real hero of Mass Effect 3:

[Merentha]

My favorite part of the endings was finding all those videos online as they came out.

And, now that I'm done being angry, I just feel kind of bad for Bioware. Like, they just announced a pretty cool multiplayer promotion, trying to get people to play some of the harder aspects of their game. And, if their ending hadn't been so bad, it'd be really well timed for the release for everyone, most people done with the singleplayer, and so on. And they seemed excited about it, which just makes me remember that, as bad as it was, maybe someone actually really did like that ending. Maybe. And then I feel bad for getting so angry at someone who actually tried to give it their best and just had something they were proud of get attacked by damn near everyone. So yeah. Thanks, Bioware, for giving me three excellent games that have entertained me for over seven years. They've got flaws, but everything (except Deus Ex :P) does.

Anyhow, that was a whole mess of words, but that's what I get for posting after my night shift.

[kungtotte]

Just to be clear: what are you people so mad about? The ending in and of itself or the fact that there is just the illusion of choice and no matter what you pick you're basically just picking the colour-scheme of the final cutscene. I don't have any real problems with the ending(s), I just wish they had the balls to either just make one ending or at least spice up the final cutscene based on your choice.

For example:

Red Ending/Destruction: The Reapers are destroyed along with the Mass Relays and the Citadel. The cycle is broken but everybody is stranded where they are, since slowboating it through the vasty nothingness of space would take generations even with these advanced ships. People have to make do with their current situation but there is no threat of the cycle repeating.

Blue Ending/Control: The Reapers are subjugated and the Mass Relays are destroyed, but the Citadel/Space-Angel-Ghost-Kid survives. This means the current iteration of the cycle is ended but the cycle itself is not broken, given enough time the SAGK might find a way to start the cycle again. Reapers are capable of much faster space travel than other species even without Mass Relays so people have some hope of getting back to their respective homeworlds.

Green Ending/Synthesis: Synthetics and organics merge beautifully, the Mass Relays are unharmed but the Citadel is destroyed. The cycle is broken and there is still unhindered space travel in the galaxy, but life as we know it effectively comes to an end seeing as how everyone becomes a space-cyborg with this fancy new DNA.

The EMS thing could stay pretty much unchanged. You need a certain EMS to unlock the Blue and Green options, and depending on how high it is there is a varying degree of collateral damage when the Red or Blue endings are chosen.

That would mean you had to actually choose at the end, since each option has pretty different outcomes while still resolving everything. Or like I said, they could just sack up and have one Grand Unified Ending.

[Noroldis]

Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.

So... angry... right now. :bang: There was nothing inspiring or uplifting about being force-fed three crappy endings that all result in the galaxy and its inhabitants getting thoroughly screwed given the loss of the mass relay network.

[Jon AS]

Just to be clear: what are you people so mad about? The ending in and of itself or the fact that there is just the illusion of choice and no matter what you pick you're basically just picking the colour-scheme of the final cutscene. I don't have any real problems with the ending(s), I just wish they had the balls to either just make one ending or at least spice up the final cutscene based on your choice.

Just about everything about the ending is bad:

-the last minute declaration that organics and synthetics must inevitably fight each other to extinction and despite you potentially just having spent a significant part of the game proving that wrong you can't argue the point at all

-the stupid choices that, as you say, are just a "pick your favourite colour" and which are not affected in any way by the choices you've made over the three games, only if you managed to get you EMS score up high enough in ME3

-the ending video that doesn't make any sense: why was the Normandy near the relay? Why are people aboard who should be on earth? Where the fuck does it crash?

-the complete lack of closure. And if you think about it, the direct consequences of the ending are so terribly destructive that, as Noroldis says, it's hard to argue that it's bittersweet, leave alone uplifting: without the relay network, all the Turians and Quarians in the Sol system are going to starve to death in short order (sorry Tali, you won't be seeing that house after all...), earth is devastated first by the reapers and then the Citadel crashing into it, presumably leading to further devastation of the planet's climate, so add all the people dying of cold and starvation to the already impressive death toll (oh and the ~13 million inhabitants of the Citadel itself as well...) etc.

-the fact that the intelligence controlling the reapers was in control of the Citadel all along. So why was any of this stuff even allowed to happen? Why couldn't it just, y'know, trigger the original plan back before ME1 even started? Why go through all the trouble with Saren and the Conduit and the Collectors and the drawn out war of attrition in ME3? And come to think about it, why was the relay network not shut off after the station was moved to earth? That was the first thing Saren did in ME1 when he got there...to prevent reinforcements being brought in to stop the reapers. Which weirdly is exactly what happens in ME3...

[Luzifer's right hand]

It took me an hour to find a way to install the game from the disks I bought.

Sometimes I think I'm pretty stupid for buying games when the game publishers try their utmost to punish me for not pirating them... :(

[kungtotte]

-the last minute declaration that organics and synthetics must inevitably fight each other to extinction and despite you potentially just having spent a significant part of the game proving that wrong you can't argue the point at all

"Last minute"? The Reapers have been saying from day 1 that they are going to wreck our shit and that it was inevitable, etc. The Ghost Kid's conviction that synthetics will end up destroying organics is just another one in a long line of stupid convictions that people have held in this series. Saren wanting to join the Reapers because he was convinced we couldn't win, the Illusive Man wanting to control them when we clearly have a chance to destroy them. I don't really understand this point at all :\

-the stupid choices that, as you say, are just a "pick your favourite colour" and which are not affected in any way by the choices you've made over the three games, only if you managed to get you EMS score up high enough in ME3

OK, two things. One, would this still be a problem if there was just one ending with no choices. Two, why should the choices you made throughout the game matter more than the final choice you make? Deus Ex ended like this too, you got to decide in the final moments what path you were going to take but nobody ever gives that game shit over it (though admittedly they do a much better job of showing you the difference between the choices in the end). Don't get me wrong I think it's lazy of them to just let you pick the colour-scheme and nothing else, but I don't mind the manner in which the ending is presented.

-the complete lack of closure.

The Reapers are dead, the cycle is broken and the galaxy is fucked. How is that not closure?

-the fact that the intelligence controlling the reapers was in control of the Citadel all along. So why was any of this stuff even allowed to happen? Why couldn't it just, y'know, trigger the original plan back before ME1 even started? Why go through all the trouble with Saren and the Conduit and the Collectors and the drawn out war of attrition in ME3? And come to think about it, why was the relay network not shut off after the station was moved to earth? That was the first thing Saren did in ME1 when he got there...to prevent reinforcements being brought in to stop the reapers. Which weirdly is exactly what happens in ME3...

Yeah the Space Angel Ghost Kid is my only real problem with the ending. Not that it exists, but that it just springs into existence right at the end. I always assumed there was something more to the Reapers than them just liking to murder the shit out of things, but just dropping that thing on the player in the last minute is pretty bad story-telling.

[Fez]

Just about everything about the ending is bad:

[stuff]

Yup, all that. Also,

-It's a complete betrayal of everything Shepard ever was that he/she doesn't even try to argue with the Star Child and just goes meekly along with it. This is a person who never backs down, who never accepts what they're told, and of all a sudden he/she does; and from the being responsible for the most death and destruction in the history of the galaxy.

-The massive logical failing that this meme shows.

-The fact that, as Arrival showed, there's a decent chance that with the relay's destruction basically every solar system in the galaxy was wiped out in an explosion stronger than a supernova. The only explanation why this wouldn't happen is a retcon explanation of 'Space Magic'.

-Never being able to properly confront Harbringer.

-The fact that by only having a very bitter ending there is much less incentive to replay the game, or indeed the entire series. There's needs to be at least one ending, no matter how hard it is to achieve, where things still basically work out. Shepard can still die in this if necessary, he/she is basically Jesus after all, but the rest of the galaxy needs to have a rebuilding/remembrance/happily ever after.

So yeah, with the endings as they are, its easy to see why many people, including myself, decided to follow the hints to explanation that it was all an indoctrination attempt and that the real end happened off-screen.

Assuming Bioware follows through on their current promises though, it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

ETA:

"Last minute"? The Reapers have been saying from day 1 that they are going to wreck our shit and that it was inevitable, etc. The Ghost Kid's conviction that synthetics will end up destroying organics is just another one in a long line of stupid convictions that people have held in this series. Saren wanting to join the Reapers because he was convinced we couldn't win, the Illusive Man wanting to control them when we clearly have a chance to destroy them. I don't really understand this point at all :\

The Reapers claim that they do as they do because otherwise there will be a technological singularity and other synethetics will completely wipe out all organic life. But we spent the game proving that Geth and Quarian can live in harmony and EDI proves over that all she wants is to be part of Shepard's crew and bone Joker.

The Reapers are dead, the cycle is broken and the galaxy is fucked. How is that not closure?

Well its not good to have the only ending be that the galaxy is fucked, it messes with replay value since nothing we really matters and it goes against the optimism that the series has always had. And regardless of the fuckedness level of the galaxy, its good to at least see it, even if its in slideshow form like the new Fallouts or DA:O. As is we have no idea what happened to anybody.

[kungtotte]

-The massive logical failing that this meme shows.

They harvest species to preserve them, they don't just wipe them out en masse. Every species that got hit by the Reapers in the past are preserved, synthetically, as part of the Reapers. The Space Angel Ghost Kid believes it is inevitable that synthetics will rise up and destroy organics and wishes to prevent the complete annihilation of these organics, so he sets up a zoo.

It's a pretty dumb plot but it's not a logical failing.

-The fact that, as Arrival showed, there's a decent chance that with the relay's destruction basically every solar system in the galaxy was wiped out in an explosion stronger than a supernova. The only explanation why this wouldn't happen is a retcon explanation of 'Space Magic'.

Yes because Mass Relays are founded on Space Science and not Space Magic. :rolleyes:

The Reapers claim that they do as they do because otherwise there will be a technological singularity and other synethetics will completely wipe out all organic life. But we spent the game proving that Geth and Quarian can live in harmony and EDI proves over that all she wants is to be part of Shepard's crew and bone Joker.

Yes, the antagonist is wrong, fancy that.

[Fez]

They harvest species to preserve them, they don't just wipe them out en masse. Every species that got hit by the Reapers in the past are preserved, synthetically, as part of the Reapers. The Space Angel Ghost Kid believes it is inevitable that synthetics will rise up and destroy organics and wishes to prevent the complete annihilation of these organics, so he sets up a zoo.

It's a pretty dumb plot but it's not a logical failing.

It is though. The Starchild had no evidence that this was true and plenty of evidence that it wasn't. And even if it was true, why doesn't he just send the Reapers to kill synethics instead? Or, considering the awesome power of the Reapers, have them show up ever couple hundred and go "hey guys, we sure hope you're not pursuing AI research because someone might get hurt. You know what I'm saying?"

Yes because Mass Relays are founded on Space Science and not Space Magic. :rolleyes:

Not our science no, but on their science yes. Within the rules of their universe the developers clearly stated that when a relay blows up, it blows up the solar system that its in. But than in the end, for no explanation whatsoever, they don't, or they do and the ending means that all life in the galaxy has been destroyed. It doesn't matter how farfetched a piece of fiction's laws/rules are, so long as they are consistent suspense of belief can be maintained; its not good to just throw them out the window for the ending. And if the didn't, then galactic holocaust. Not good either.

[kungtotte]

Not our science no, but on their science yes. Within the rules of their universe the developers clearly stated that when a relay blows up, it blows up the solar system that its in. But than in the end, for no explanation whatsoever, they don't, or they do and the ending means that all life in the galaxy has been destroyed. It doesn't matter how farfetched a piece of fiction's laws/rules are, so long as they are consistent suspense of belief can be maintained; its not good to just throw them out the window for the ending. And if the didn't, then galactic holocaust. Not good either.

In Arrival, they destroy the relay by smashing an asteroid into it, which is obviously not what happens in ME3. The relay in ME3 that we see being destroyed is first activated shooting the energy beam through it and then it sort of crumples in on itself. I don't see where the inconsistency lies and I think you are just looking for faults because you are disappointed with the game/ending in general.

[Fez]

Yes, the antagonist is wrong, fancy that.

Well that's fine. But don't you think it would be a good idea that you, the hero, would be able to argue with him instead of just going along with things? Why not have an option where Shepard goes "Hey Hackett, yeah this is a no go. We're gonna have to try to win this thing the old fashioned way." And, hell if necessary make it so that there's no EMS high enough for the fleet to win, and it ends with everyone who survives scattering to the winds. Like Liara says at one point (at least if she's a LI, dunno if she always does) the galaxy is a big place, it'd be easy for a ship to get lost in it. At least Shepard would still have free will at the end.

In Arrival, they destroy the relay by smashing an asteroid into it, which is obviously not what happens in ME3. The relay in ME3 that we see being destroyed is first activated shooting the energy beam through it and then it sort of crumples in on itself. I don't see where the inconsistency lies and I think you are just looking for faults because you are disappointed with the game/ending in general.

Its a small sample size sure, but we have exactly one example of a relay being destroyed, and it destroyed a solar system. And that doctor lady in Arrival said that her team's calculations were that when you destroy a relay all that energy is released in a supernova-like explosion, she didn't say that only when you destroy a relay with an asteroid that happens. Without any hard evidence being provided it seems incredibly optimistic to assume that things would be different this time just because.

[Noroldis]

I don't see where the inconsistency lies and I think you are just looking for faults because you are disappointed with the game/ending in general.

We've found plenty of other faults.

Yes, the antagonist is wrong, fancy that.

If the antagonist is wrong, then why the hell is Shepard forced to agree with the Starchild without the chance to argue back and point out the fallacies in its reasoning? That's a colossal fault right there.

[Humble Asskicker]

Wow, reading this thread has convinced me that not only will I love ME the series, I'll love the ending completely. The choices of "important" people often end up not ultimately mattering in real life, so why should they in a game?

I think Bioware is ballsy and awesome beyond words for, in the process of developing a conclusion, ignoring the potential complaints of some egotistical players who must feel super special and use games as an outlet of pretending they are something they aren't in reality: a badass superhero. The message up to this point may have been that your choices matter; now with the ending, the message of the ME series is that while it may seem like your choices matter and you can make a difference, you find rather abruptly that you were a fool to think that. This happens frequently in life.

I fucking hate when games have you face an overpowered force against whom humans are supposedly outclassed and have no chance, but of course the hero (ie you) will find a way, somehow, because you are just that amazing. It's incredibly refreshing and unexpected to find a more practical game that acknowledges that no, you and humans would and should be screwed - regardless of your previous "meaningful" self-serving choices.

Bravo, Bioware. You may not repeat this outcome again because it the downpour of outrage at some fans whose masturbatory fantasy was slapped down, but for now, bravo.

[kungtotte]

We've found plenty of other faults.

Yep, and I am categorically saying that none of those faults are actual faults. Or wait, I'm not doing that at all, I'm arguing very specific points.

[David Selig]

Wow, reading this thread has convinced me that not only will I love ME the series, I'll love the ending completely. The choices of "important" people often end up not ultimately mattering in real life, so why should they in a game?

I think Bioware is ballsy and awesome beyond words for, in the process of developing a conclusion, ignoring the potential complaints of some egotistical players who must feel super special and use games as an outlet of pretending they are something they aren't in reality: a badass superhero. The message up to this point may have been that your choices matter; now with the ending, the message of the ME series is that while it may seem like your choices matter and you can make a difference, you find rather abruptly that you were a fool to think that. This happens frequently in life.

I fucking hate when games have you face an overpowered force against whom humans are supposedly outclassed and have no chance, but of course the hero (ie you) will find a way, somehow, because you are just that amazing. It's incredibly refreshing and unexpected to find a more practical game that acknowledges that no, you and humans would and should be screwed - regardless of your previous "meaningful" self-serving choices.

You do realise that the humans actually win at the end because you, the hero, found a way to beat the Reapers, right? Sure, it's a very costly win, but still...

The message up to this point may have been that your choices matter; now with the ending, the message of the ME series is that while it may seem like your choices matter and you can make a difference, you find rather abruptly that you were a fool to think that. This happens frequently in life.

Just because something happens frequently in life doesn't mean it's good to include it in art. Besides, Ever since the first game in the series, one of Bioware's main selling points for it was "Your choices matter", so changing it in the last minutes feels like a giant middle finger to their customers.