The Winds of Winter: Victarion I ?

[CrypticWeirwood]

If we hadn't seen Moqorro travel from Volantis with Tryion and Jorah, I'd say there is a chance it was somehow Euron; however since did leave from Volantis with guards from Red Rahloo and give nighty services yadda yadda, there is no way that's Euron.

You give good reasons for him not to be Marvin, either. Er, I mean Marwyn.

I always call them Marvin and Maguro, myself. Given the part about getting fished out of the sea, I like Maguro.

[protar]

If we hadn't seen Moqorro travel from Volantis with Tryion and Jorah, I'd say there is a chance it was somehow Euron; however since did leave from Volantis with guards from Red Rahloo and give nighty services yadda yadda, there is no way that's Euron.

I don't think that disproves anything. He has a part to play so giving nigtly services isn't out of the question, he could have somehow obtained his guards through other means. All we know about Moqqoro we hear from his POV. And I think the timelines roughly match up, which they don't with Marwyn I don't think.

[the trees have eyes]

In AFFC we learn that Euron captures a ship from Qarth with 3/4 (?) warlocks on it and that he killed one and fed him to the others.

In ADWD Xharo tells Dany that Pyat Pree sailed with 2/3 (?) other warlocks seeking her in Pentos and that he still intends to kill her to avenge the burning of the House of the Undying.

I think these warlocks are one and the same and that Euron does indeed have tools at his disposal but Moqorro seems a genuine red priest, "the right hand of Benerro", i.e. a very influential priest and I think he is who he seems to be not a plant. We don't have any reason to link Euron and Moqorro and as king I assume Euron needs to be highly visible rather than masquerading as a red priest half a world away.

I have a problem with Victarion gaining any dragons - namely he wants to conquer and plunder Westeros and make thralls of everyone there. I don't think the ironborn are meant to have dragons and it will be a dark day that they gain any.

Personally, I like the idea that Jorah will sound the horn and bind the dragons to Dany. In so doing he will die, his sacrifice the ultimate act of restitution for his earlier betrayal, and again playing on one of the major themes of the story - redemption.

[protar]

In AFFC we learn that Euron captures a ship from Qarth with 3/4 (?) warlocks on it and that he killed one and fed him to the others.

In ADWD Xharo tells Dany that Pyat Pree sailed with 2/3 (?) other warlocks seeking her in Pentos and that he still intends to kill her to avenge the burning of the House of the Undying.

I think these warlocks are one and the same and that Euron does indeed have tools at his disposal but Moqorro seems a genuine red priest, "the right hand of Benerro", i.e. a very influential priest and I think he is who he seems to be not a plant. We don't have any reason to link Euron and Moqorro and as king I assume Euron needs to be highly visible rather than masquerading as a red priest half a world away.

I have a problem with Victarion gaining any dragons - namely he wants to conquer and plunder Westeros and make thralls of everyone there. I don't think the ironborn are meant to have dragons and it will be a dark day that they gain any.

Personally, I like the idea that Jorah will sound the horn and bind the dragons to Dany. In so doing he will die, his sacrifice the ultimate act of restitution for his earlier betrayal, and again playing on one of the major themes of the story - redemption.

We don't have any reason specifically to link Euron and Moqorro, but we do have reason to suspect that Euron might be hiding out in Vic's fleet somewhere or otherwise keeping an eye on him, because when we look closely it's actually incredibly stupid of Euron to entrust Victarion with bringing him Dany and the dragons and Euron doesn't strike me as stupid. Moqorro simply seems the most likely option to me if that is the case. For all we know Moqorro is a real red priest that was going to find Dany but Euron kiled him and glamoured him. Other people have considered that Euron might be the dusky woman but someone I don't see Euron enjoying that. Or hey maybe he would?

[Dornish Bannerman]

I think Victarion will sack Meereen, kill Hizdahr and wait for Daenerys. Then Dany will arrive with a khalasar under Khal Jhaqo, and she marries them both, being Aegon with two husbands. Then ships the dragons and Dothraki to westeros. :D

[facelessPAman]

I doubt the Moqorro is who he says he is. Will someone else in the fleet betray Victarion? Probably. But Moqorro is using the Iron Fleet to get to Meereen, not to be Euron's cats paw.

[Arthanis]

Euron is definitely far more smart and dangerous then Victarion - and he is going to play much greater role. Moquorro probably see much more then he tell to Victarion.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Dind’t Asha say that both Euron and Victarion went off with the Iron Fleet?

[Stargareyen]

What if Euron is actually in disguise in Victarion's crew?

What is more important to the Crow's Eye than wooing Dany and her dragons?

Can he really enjoy just being a raider of the Reach? Even his men are reluctant to carry on more raids.

Why would he give the precious dragon horn and the task of getting Dany to his brother, whose wife he raped earning Victarion's spite in return?

Is it just his duty as a king of the Iron islands that has made him stay behind?

[theemir87]

If Euron wanted to wed Dany why travel to the Iron island when he could have went to slaver bay in the first place i don't think Euron want Dany but the Dragon and meet Victorian for something he as planned in order to bind the dragons to him

the question is where is he hiding in the fleet?

[Sansouci]

He's bland and boring to me, actually. Khal Drogo preceded him to take the spot of Obligatory Skull-Smashing Barbarian Character and despite having hardly any lines and no POV chapters of his own, Khal Drogo comes off as more complex than Victarion. That's how flat Victarion is. We've got too many Greyjoys considering they aren't actually running shit, they're all over the top and one-dimensional except for Asha and Theon, who are the only Greyjoys who should matter.

I really don't know why there are so many Greyjoy POVs, but I suspect that since AFFC, GRRM has begun to lose the plot a bit.

I wished The Reader had been given a POV. I would to hear his thoughts on the Greyjoys.

[drigoly]

I think Victarion will sack Meereen, kill Hizdahr and wait for Daenerys. Then Dany will arrive with a khalasar under Khal Jhaqo, and she marries them both, being Aegon with two husbands. Then ships the dragons and Dothraki to westeros. :D

I think the iron fleet will arive at the same time as dany and her new khalasar, destroying the slaver armies from two sides, without a way for them to escape and after that she will have the ships to sail her to westeros, the only question is how she will react to victarion :)

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Victorion is dangerous and he wouldn't treat Dany with any respect IMO. I don't see anything good coming of that meeting.

As for Moqorro I have no idea what his agenda is but I'm inclined to believe that he is either using the Iron Suitor to reach Daenerys or he truly thinks that Victarion is that savior that Melisandre keeps going on and on about....

But I think its a given at this point that someone will clash at this meeting and I fully expect someone to die. Probably Jorah Mormont....hes annoying to me. I liked him A Game of Thrones but a 40+ year old guy salivating and making out over his Queen is very sketch to me.

Barristan Selmy is by far the better knight and exemplifies all the qualities of the ideal knight.

[Casso King of Seals]

I just want all of Mereen to die in dragon fire. All of it, all the sellswords, all the stupid harpies, Daario, Hizdahr, the Green Grace, everyone and take all their overwhelming plot threads with them!

[Drogon's Personal Trainer]

I'm still of the opinion that Victarion is dead already. He died in his cabin! It's the only POV that leaves the perspective of a the person whose POV it is. While Moqorro is "fixing" him, the narrative goes outside his cabin and identifies people in the hallway.

GRRM never, ever wrote something like that.

I think he might be revealed to be dead at some point, and will blow the horn himself, and it won't kill him.

Have we had the 'dead man in the prow of the ship' yet? Wasn't that part of the HOTU prophecies?

[Drogon's Personal Trainer]

I have a feeling that Euron is not in Westeros but near Victorian, waiting to claim the dragons. I am hopeful that the horn will only bind one dragon, but it is possible both Viserion and Rhaegal are bound by the horn. That would make sense as to why it's so important that Dany is away with Drogon so she will still be in control of him.

Moqorro says, "Your brother did not sound the horn himself. Nor must you. Here. 'Blood for fire, fire for blood.' Who blows the hellhorn matters not. The dragons will come to the horn's master. You must claim the horn. With blood."

I want to know how he claims it with blood. By killing Euron, presumably the horn's master? I just don't see one dragon binding horn being able to control multiple dragons just by blowing it. There has to be more to it or any Valyrian who had a horn could have blown it and claimed another person's dragons. I lean toward it being able to control one dragon, but you need the dragon's blood or something else to be able to control it.

You must claim the horn with blood? See - I read this as an instruction for Vic to claim Dany as his wife (please, gods, don't let that happen!) so that SHE blows the damned horn.

[MtnLion]

I think that when the horn is sounded, and the dragons respond Euron will appear from whatever glamor he is currently under and cut Victarion's throat, to claim the horn (by blood).

[Onion Ring Knight]

See, I don't think that's quite accurate on Moqorro's part. I think a dragon itself is claimed by blood, and Moqorro's belief of how the hellhorn plays into things isn't correct. Here's part of Dany's dream shortly after marrying Khal Drogo:

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed.

And recall, Drogon is basically "menstruated upon" by Dany at the end of ADWD and that seemingly binds him to her. No horn required.

I think perhaps the horn can be used to call the dragon after it's been claimed or something, but I'm not buying that the horn is necessary for Dany to bind her dragon (or dragons) to her like that.

[NotSoSilentSister]

It’s highly unlikely that Euron gambled all he had on Victarion not finding out in time about that “blowing the horn will kill you”-bug….(Wasn't that already revealed anyway, when the guy who blew the horn at the summit kicked the bucket? ). Would be pretty out of character for Euron to give that horn away if there’s a snowball’s chance in hell that Victarion might figure out a way to successfully use it. Most probably, it’s fake.

But even if not, Euron would surely have someone loyal to him in place, should Victarion be too successful. So a hidden Euron-loyalist, or maybe Euron himself suddenly revealing himself is definitely a possiblity.

Then again, I suspect that Euron doesn’t give sh*t about Dany and her dragons anyway. Do you remember that story about that dragon egg he chucked over board in one of his moods? Yeah, sure. What if he actually had that egg? What if he still has it? What if he’s found a way to hatch it? Euron’s dragon might still be too small to do much damage, which would be a good reason to keep things under wrap for now. And sending Victarion on a wild geese hunt for Dany is just a way to get rid of him, at least for a while. Would be kind of waste to give him the actual horn….

As to Morroquo's agenda:The High Priest sent him to support Dany with her anti-slavery agenda. Now, a more pragmatic person might see capture by fantasy-vikings as a sufficient incentive to shift allegiances, but those religious types tend to be idealistic about those things….Assuming that Morroquo is a true believer, why on earth would he help Victarion to rob Savior-Dany of her dragons and best chance at success? It’s way more likely that he finds a way to make Victarion his puppet and has him hand his fleet over to Dany on a platter….

(That said, not even accounting for religious fanatism and belief in prophecies - even from a pragmatic view Dany is the better horse to back if your goal is to end slavery. Morroquo has had ample opportunity to witness how Victarion goes about these things....his treatment of the thralls in this chapter does not really make him look like savior of the slaves material. Maybe that was a test of worthiness by Morroquo and Vicki has just failed it.....)

[aryagonnakill]

just to clear up a few points ive seen in this thread, euron directly told victarion that his horn blower died, he even told him about the lungs so he never intended victarion himself to blow the horn. Secondly as to the size of Eurons total force. There are two places in affc where the total number of iron island ships is set at 1,000. In the victarion chapter when they take the shield islands a random captain says if 1,000 ships set sail to slavers bay we'll arrive with 300. Then in a cersei chapter loras and margeary are telling cersei about the ironmen attacking and they say the letter says there was 1,000 ships. Aurane waters said they double counted and 500 is more likely. 500 is also the number of ships in the redwyne fleet, but only 200 of those are war galleys. The iron fleet which was/is 100 strong was made up of the largest of the ironborns ships, however there could still easily be 900 ships somewhere around the mander/arbor.