Daenerys the Cheater

[Lady of Long Lake]

I wouldn't say that I was convinced by the original post, but to say that it had no real explanation isn't accurate at all. It most certainly did. And that's a pretty insulting way that you characterized the person writing the post as well. I'm not sure where that came from or why it was necesary.

That's always how his posts go LOL!

I've noticed this strange reoccuring theme in them ," Blah, blah, blah ,Jon is yucky, blah ,blah, blah, Insult the poster's intelligence, blah, blah, blah, Jon should die, blah, blah, blah, Insult the poster's ability to read, blah, blah, blah, Jon is the devil, blah, blah, blah........

[Carey Snow]

You can't honestly think this is a convincing line of argument.

Dany never claimed to be an honest merchant, she claims to be the next Targ conqueror who will burn cities to the ground with fire and blood and retake her homeland. The slavers had the gull to ask for one of her dragons as payment so she gave them one of her dragons as payment, then she burned their city to the ground and reclaimed her dragon. Serves them right!

Burn them all Dany, burn them all! :bowdown:

[The King in the South]

I wouldn't say that I was convinced by the original post, but to say that it had no real explanation isn't accurate at all. It most certainly did. And that's a pretty insulting way that you characterized the person writing the post as well. I'm not sure where that came from or why it was necesary.

He lists a line and finishes it with "ok." Doesn't bother to rationalize why this might have happened, or what it's relationship with the story is, or anything like that. It's basically just cherry picking to make Dany look bad. I think it's a pretty weak post, and deserves to be considered as such.

That's always how his posts go LOL!

I've noticed this strange reoccuring theme in them ," Blah, blah, blah ,Jon is yucky, blah ,blah, blah, Insult the poster's intelligence, blah, blah, blah, Jon should die, blah, blah, blah, Insult the poster's ability to read, blah, blah, blah, Jon is the devil, blah, blah, blah........

Are you referring to me? If so, I'll certainly admit that I find Jon's story a bit contrived, but I don't insult his character anywhere near the extent that you seem to think. Jon's not my favorite character, but I don't think "he's the devil" or anything like that, and I've never posted a statement that is comparable to that. At worst, I've said he's a pretty big cliche.

And yes, if the poster makes a stupid post, I'm going to say it's a stupid post. If I make a stupid post, your free to call it stupid too. (assuming you explain why) These books aren't mean for 12 year olds, and I would think anybody that has read them and likes them well enough to explore them would have a decent level of thick skin (given the content) and a moderate level of intelligence. At least to the point that if they make a dumb post they can deal with some criticism.

[Lizaveta Martell]

Is there really a line of debate as to whether or not it was a moral decision to double cross slaver traders? They take young boys, castrate them, force them to kill puppies and babies and we care whether or not they got paid properly? If Dany killed everyone who ever owned a slave, I can't say I'd have a huge moral problem with it. It would be a terrible strategic problem and it would complicate everything politically forever and ever, but yeah, slavery is like a top 5 human rights abuse thing. Like I don't care that we rejected the Nuremberg defense to mass genocide, I don't care that she declared war on slavery and had some truly terrible people die. Maybe there are more terrible people, maybe guilt wasn't equal, but in a world where men force 11 year old boys to kill babies in the street for money, not upset.

I think the larger question of whether Dany's later action in ruling Meereen are hypocritical or point toward a tendency for despotism, insanity, etc, is precisely whether or not to make the moral, rigid, retributivist decision or to make the unpleasant political compromise. It's the difference between "I've just conquered your city, kill your slave masters" and "I live here now and I'd like some factions to like me and cooperate". Maybe I wouldn't have made the decision to reopen the fighting pits or make peace with the Yunkai or allow people to sell themselves or leave Astapor to solve its own problems, but maybe that just means I'd be a better conquerer than ruler. I'm not saying Dany hasn't screwed up, just maybe that GRRM is not trying to make her a villain so much as say something about the issues of establishing a new ruler in a foreign place (ie exactly what Dany would be doing if she went to Westeros because she is a foreigner and has no reason to be loved by the people there) and learning about something for which there isn't a lot of help or instruction.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Dany never claimed to be an honest merchant, she claims to be the next Targ conqueror who will burn cities to the ground with fire and blood and retake her homeland. The slavers had the gull to ask for one of her dragons as payment so she gave them one of her dragons as payment, then she burned their city to the ground and reclaimed her dragon. Serves them right!

Burn them all Dany, burn them all! :bowdown:

The Mad King approves! This is definitely where I see Dany's story going, steadily further down the path of the 'burn them all' conqueror. I think she'll make a great and really well built-up villain.

[eyeheartsansa]

I'm not saying Dany hasn't screwed up, just maybe that GRRM is not trying to make her a villain so much as say something about the issues of establishing a new ruler in a foreign place (ie exactly what Dany would be doing if she went to Westeros because she is a foreigner and has no reason to be loved by the people there) and learning about something for which there isn't a lot of help or instruction.

this may be the wrong thread to make this point, but it seems pretty clear to me that GRRM was paying alot of attention to the Iraq situation when he wrote the Mereen stuff. America is not exactly a villain to be despised.. we mean well but goshdarnit if we don't get ourselves into a right pickle with our foreign policy sometimes.

[Jon Flowers]

He lists a line and finishes it with "ok." Doesn't bother to rationalize why this might have happened, or what it's relationship with the story is, or anything like that. It's basically just cherry picking to make Dany look bad. I think it's a pretty weak post, and deserves to be considered as such.

That's a little bit closer to a rebuttal of the post, but insinuating that people you disagree with are twelve year olds and or of questionable intellect really doesn't further the debate in any constructive way. Again, I get that you disagree, as do I to an extent, but you aren't doing anything your viewpoint any favors by insulting people with whom you disagree rather than attempting to refute their arguments.

[teemo]

I do think Dany gets way too lucky all of time. I also don't think she's going to live, however, so I think it'll even out.

[The King in the South]

That's a little bit closer to a rebuttal of the post, but insinuating that people you disagree with are twelve year olds and or of questionable intellect really doesn't further the debate in any constructive way. Again, I get that you disagree, as do I to an extent, but you aren't doing anything your viewpoint any favors by insulting people with whom you disagree rather than attempting to refute their arguments.

Err, you misunderstood my statement. When I said twelve year olds I was referencing that people who read these books probably aren't twelve years of age, and thus can take a little critiscim. I didn't imply that the OP was a twelve year old.

And I'm not trying to refute any arguement; my original post was in response to someone who had skipped through eleven pages of this thread and simply said "the OP isn't saying that, he's saying this", to which I responded that was incorrect. (Because you know, those eleven pages that he skipped over were full of refutes and counter-refutes) I'm not dismissing any of the discussion throughout this thread; in fact I'm doing the opposite.

[eyeheartsansa]

Err, you misunderstood my statement. When I said twelve year olds I was referencing that people who read these books probably aren't twelve years of age, and thus can take a little critiscim. I didn't imply that the OP was a twelve year old.

And I'm not trying to refute any arguement; my original post was in response to someone who had skipped through eleven pages of this thread and simply said "the OP isn't saying that, he's saying this", to which I responded that was incorrect. (Because you know, those eleven pages that he skipped over were full of refutes and counter-refutes) I'm not dismissing any of the discussion throughout this thread; in fact I'm doing the opposite.

If you're talking about me... I've been following this thread all along. I don't remember who I was responding to when I made my point about 'danny the cheater' but we do seem to agree that the OP has not made a very convincing case; other posters have made more interesting and informed points since then..

weird oncoming rant/tangent...read at your own risk...

I can't pretend to understand ASOIAF fandom.. some readers seem to get fixated on really odd things. Like this one poster I read who just HATES Ygrette, with a passion! Why???? Not that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but she's a minor character whose story arc has come and gone.. she says 'you know nothing, Jon Snow' alot, screws Jon, turns him on to wildling culture and then dies. She may not be your favorite, but why would you hate her? She's kind of one dimensional and she has a catch phrase; but why go on and on about it? Things like this really baffle me. Maybe I am showing my age.. maybe some of these fans are younger, female, into fan fiction and shipping.. an aspect of fandom that has no appeal to me. Like once there was a whose Jon/Arya thread.. worst 'ship' EVER. gross. or a John/Robb or Robb/Theon thread. even better.. bleh.. so what am I trying to say here? I guess there's just alot of people who get something different out of these stories.. for me the most interesting thing is the ethical dilemmas the major characters are faced with.. what is right and wrong.. as well as the overall craft of the writing and storytelling, how various threads are interconnected, literary devices, foreshadowing, etc.

... end rant.

[Sun]

The Mad King approves! This is definitely where I see Dany's story going, steadily further down the path of the 'burn them all' conqueror. I think she'll make a great and really well built-up villain.

I really hope so. This is the only direction her arc could take that I would find intriguing.

[Hail_Stannis!]

Wait, i'm new here, and this isn't exactly on topic, but...people hate Catelyn Stark?!

Jon Snow is my boy and all, but she was one of the most realistic and well written characters so far, in my opinion.

...before she went all Stoneheart, that is.

As for Daenerys, as long as she stays away from Stannis, we`re cool.

[teemo]

Wait, i'm new here, and this isn't exactly on topic, but...people hate Catelyn Stark?!

OMG! YES! Probably most hated character on the forums...Sansa and Dany have a lot of hate too.

[FuzzyJAM]

Wait, i'm new here, and this isn't exactly on topic, but...people hate Catelyn Stark?!

Haha, yeah, I was really thrown off by the way people seem to have reacted to a lot of characters. Catelyn makes some bad moves and hatred for your stepchild (or someone approaching a stepchild) is pretty bad, but she's one of the characters who does the least questionable acts, I'd say. I don't know, some characters in the books get a lot more respect than I think they deserve and some get considerably less.

I suppose it is to be expected. . .people have different world views, and naturally judge people differently.

[Hail_Stannis!]

She (Catelyn) definitely makes some bad moves, but I think they are always a very good reflection of her character from what we know of her. That`s a good thing for a character, even if it is something like hating your husband`s bastard (who happens to be awesome).

As a zombie, well, we know she likes to hang Freys and the like.

That`s not a bad thing.

Dany...she`s ok. She`s like, fifteen and has dragons and a shitload of people telling her she`s awesome and cool, so it`s REALLY hard to get behind her. She`s not in the fire (pun totally intended) in Westeros, so I don`t think she deserves anything over there. Can`t say I dislike her or her POV`s though.

[Howling Mad]

I have no problem with Dany, I have a problem with her story arc taking so long to come to fruition.

[Silmarien]

At this point i've come to seriously hate this character and can't wait to see her fail massively and die (which, in all probability is never gonna happen). It's not 'good' hate either like the one you feel for a character that just did something really upsetting, like Theon betraying and taking winterfell for instance, no, it's just plain old full-on annoyance and irritation.

It's not just the one-dimensional cartoony villans she gets to fight, unlike the complex situations and opposing POVs we get to see in westeros, it's not the increasingly arrogant and entitled attitude, the ten thousand tittles she's so fond of, it's not the dumb "decisions" she makes on ADWD, the mocking of Quentyn for one, the inability to hear anything positive about someone in westeros that's not a Targaryen and the same for anything negative about those, and well, oh so many little things and details... But no, those are not the main reasons why i find the character so irritating and almost 'insulting' by now,

it's because she's too alien, too magically contrasting, it's because she "Cheats".

Here's a list:

1) So she gets 'sold' to a barbaric monster of a man (who happens to be a handsome one in his own way of course), ok, and turns out the guy (who isn't used to anything of the sort, and it just isn't part of his culture as we get to find out later on) just makes sweet, sweet love to her, asking for permission and everything so her first time is magically non-rape like as it should've been (given what we know of dothraki), ok.

2) She actually manages to get the brutal barbarian to actually fall in love with her in just a few months which allows her some leaway between the dothraki (contrary to their ways and traditions), ok.

3) She was raised as a westerosi princess with westerosi values, but her adaptability knows no limits and she quickly and easily (none of those long emotional and psychological conflicts that span for many, many chapters we see some other characters go through in order to adapt to different circumstances, not to mention radically different ones such as Daenerys's) embraces dothraki culture even in some of it's basest ways. ok.

4) She gets pregnant and, of course, not only is he a boy of gender to properly please her manly man husband, also, her unborn son is declared to be some long awaited uber-dothraki of prophecy by the dothraki 'witches'. ok.

5) Her dangerous, moronic, abusive, mad brother had to go, so he commits some mayor stupidity and gets himself killed with a neat trick. ok.

6) We're told that she's lived her life running from the knives of the usurper and all that, which we know it's not true and that only once did Robert aproved of having her killed which he shortly thereafter changed his mind, but not before one assasin tried to poison her, conviniently giving her the 'edge' she needed to finally convice khal drogo to get his ass moving to westeros (which he obviously never intended to do, making Viserys even more of a pathetic figure, for which she doesn't even share a tear, btw). ok.

7) She's saved of being poisoned at the last moment by Jorah Mormont, who was a spy but gets a change of heart out of falling in love with her just at the right moment, of course. Also, no more assasins from westeros ever show up (even though the poisoner almost got her in Vaes Dothrak itself). ok.

8) So she get's thrown the only curve ball ever for her, and the maegi seemingly poison drogo and her unborn child... but of course, in doing so, she reveals the super secret maegi trick that only life can pay for life. ok.

9) And of course, out of that one curve ball, she gets to hatch freaking dragons, she did this not knowing anything about magic (despite the maegi saying that it took her years to learn the most basic things), except that one trick the maegi said. And most important of all she's magically and completely inmune to fire, unlike many Targaryens we've seen and known about. ok.

10) She crosses the desert with her rag-tag band of women, abandoned slaves and old people, without ever knowing where they were or where they were going, but lo and behold after some difficulties (not that much really, if it were any other character doing that travesy they would've lost 3/4 of their people), she comes into an abandoned city of old with a little bit of resources to sustain them for the moment. How lucky!. ok.

11) Out of nowhere come this 3 characters that seemingly cast 'detect dragon' or somesuch and magically found her, bringing all kinds of gifts and resources. ok.

12) So she gets to Qarth, this wonderful oasis, and thanks to her dragon show she gets a huge respite, plenty of resources and riches, etc, etc. ok.

13) So the wizard guy leads her to a trap (but only after showering her with useful resources, of course), and she gets to see all kinds of visions past, present and future, and she even learns that she'll be betrayed 3 times and for what reasons too!. ok.

14) The 'undead' or something wizards try to zap her soul out or somesuch, she falls for it, and it is her black dragon that saves her ass this time (lucky those wizards had such an obvious and easy weakness too!). ok.

15) Upon leaving the building the wizard outside tries to stab her and she gets saved, yet again, by someone else. ok.

16) She pisses some guys off and gets sent a special assasin with a manticore and voila! just in time ser Barristan Selmy arrive to save her. ok.

17) She needed some ships desperately and that's exactly what Illyrio sends her (with an obedient captain and full of valuable merchandise too, of course). ok.

18) Don't quite remember how she ends up arriving at slaver's bay, but none of her ships sink (depite it being a common ocurrence in the books that fleets always loose at least one ship). ok.

19) So she desperately needs soldiers and super duper conveniently the first slaver's bay city she comes upon it's the one that sells the invincible spartan guys (it couldn't have been the one that sells pleasure slaves, no, that would've been too 'inconvenient'). ok.

20) Obviously the city is ruled by absolute morons (despite being guys who should be pretty used to dealing with basically the scum of the earth: slavers, dothraki, slave-merchants for the big cities, etc) who get cheated out of their invincible slave army incredibly easy and with minimum discomfort to Daenerys. ok.

21) Depite being raised as a princess, and never to lead armies or anything of the sort, she even magically manages to posses some strategic and tactical knowledge of warfare... ok.

22) Not quite clear yet, but if Jorah Mormont's "betrayal" is supposed to truly be one of the 3 betrayals she's supposed to face then she got off quite easily, isn't it! (same goes for that merc she liked to sleep with, the one who changed sides). ok.

23) Conveniently, yet again, the taking of that other slaver city goes quite smootly thanks to some trick (instead of bloody, costly and hard for a change - can't have Dany wasting her army can we?). ok.

24) That bravosi mercenary finds her vulnerable and attemps to kill her and yet again she gets saved by someone else without so much as a scratch (be nice if she got a hand chopped off, her legs crippled, half her face cut off, lost an ear, half her face bitten off, or at least a broken fingernail, but no, that's for the non-cheating characters). ok.

25) Of course, she has a super magical friend who pops up to give her advice about the upcomming future perils and situations with perfect accuracy record (unlike some other future seeing character... of course how could she?, she doesn't serve Dany!). ok.

26) ::sighs:: we also learn that her super awesome targaryen blood makes her inmune to all diseases that affect common men (i have to admit, i almost threw the book out the window at this point). ok.

27) As if the above wasn't enough, her elite unsoiled captains that she sent to help the plague camp conveniently didn't catch the disease either (as they should have, dammit!). ok.

28) She takes moronic decisions, entrust the obviously wrong people, and it never comes back to bite her in the ass. ok.

29) We learn that there's a bunch of westerosi going her way, and all of them intent on kissing her ass of course, none of her possible westerosi enemies so much as cares to make any move. ok.

30) If she finally decides to go to westeros she already has Aegon there establishing a beach head on the Stormlands for her (and it's made quite clear that he needs her). ok.

31) So her black dragon returns and start wreacking havoc (just when she was most disgusted and stressed and needed to escape her resposibilities and burdens - how conv..., oh enough of that word!). ok.

32) So she dominates the rebelious dragon with a whip and 'a smile' (dragon that conveniently spits fire at her, to which she's inmune, instead of clawing or bitting her head off), and she actually gloats later on that while the ancient valyrian lords used magical commands or magical horns to dominate their dragons she did it with just her whip and her voice... of course. ok.

33) I forgot, all things indicate that she's some prophesized specialty; the promised prince(ss) as Aemon says, and (if they're the same thing, perhaps not and she's not only one specially prophezised being but a twofer how a bout that!) the azor ahai one which the fire priests in that boring ass continent (except Bravos, Bravos is awesome) obviously believe her to be. Which serves to give her yet another super powerful ally in the red priests, how nice. ok.

34) So while she's away meditating on her life, having a respite from her stress (and diarreha) all her problems in the city are being solved (yet freaking again) by her loyals and wannabe loyals (such as Tyrion). ok.

35) At the end of ADWD, she's in need of a couple of very important things, which by the looks of it, she's about to get, yet incredibly again, served to her in a silver platter:

- she needs to break the sea blockade and be able to defend the city's coast: there conveniently comes Victarion with the Iron Fleet to do it for her.

- she needs a way to control her dragons: there comes the magical horn that Victarion is bringing. Moqorro the gigantic fire priest is there too, probably to kill Victarion after he's no longer useful to Daenerys.

- she needs to break the siege of the city: the plague, Barristan and Tyrion are about to do it for her.

- she lacks and therefore needs a powerful cavalry: she conveniently encounters the khal 'something' the former bloodrider of Drogo while riding on her dragon and they will bend the knee and provide it to her (we even got a hint of that from one of them Quaithe prophetic advices), just wait and see...

I only recently read the books, and i read them all one after the other, so this 'pattern' was pretty obvious to me; one or two, maybe three of those 'lucky shots' i have no problem with but when you put them all together you just... wow, what is this? It is such a profound and strong contrast to the rest of the characters and the problems and situations they go through that we're reading about in these novels, such a blatant favoritism, such irritating contrast, such "cheating".

It makes me wonder whether the author is doing this on purpose, or not... not a good sign if he's not, and if he is, well, why, for what?

Maybe this has been discussed to death around here, apologies if it has, but, what are your thoughts on this, anyone feel the same way about this?

Sounds like you hate her mainly because things have gone too well for her. That seems a silly reason to hate a character, no?

And she isn't immune to fire.

:bang:

[Silmarien]

Wait, i'm new here, and this isn't exactly on topic, but...people hate Catelyn Stark?!

Jon Snow is my boy and all, but she was one of the most realistic and well written characters so far, in my opinion.

...before she went all Stoneheart, that is.

As for Daenerys, as long as she stays away from Stannis, we`re cool.

Gah, yes. I don't understand why people hate Catelyn, I think it's because she's "mean" to Jon mostly. She's one of the most benign characters otherwise....unless you count Lady Stoneheart, which I do not. Cat had been dead 3 days when she was revived - she isn't the same person anymore.

[Errant Bard]

she isn't the same person anymore.

Just like Arya isn't the same person anymore after Ned's death.

[Blue-eyed Onion]

Whoa! thread got bigger (and derailed a lot with that sexism or whatever discussion thing).

Didn't expect this to get so large so i won't be responding to some people specifically that i would like to respond to, of course i ignore all those who posted such things as 'i didn't read your post/whole post but you're wrong because...' or 'yuor ae dumb' and the like.

To the poster who responded to each of my laundry list points; cool, and yes, i concede that some of the points i listed may be open to different interpretations and i actually found some reasonable and acceptable arguments made both by you and some other people throughout the thread regarding those. I also concede that the arrival at the slave-soldier city was not 'lucky' but purposeful as i didn't recall those moments well. That said, i would say that while some of the discussion in this thread is quite interesting i'm still not convinced that she's not super duper humanly gifted lucky to the point that it contrasts very hard with the rest of the mayor characters...

Wasn't there a character that said (or maybe it was in the tv show, hopefully i'm not confusing them here); 'when you play the game of thrones you either win or you die'? or something along those lines? and it is quite a mayor point throughout the books that no one is really safe and that all those who 'play' at warfare and/or politics are always in danger of dying, suffering, or paying dearly and costly for any mistake they make. Not so Daenerys, she always 'lands on two feet' and escapes unscathed, despite having been placed in so much more generally dangerous situations than a lot of other characters. Like i said, a single point itself in my list i have no problem with, 2, 3, whatever, no problem, but when you add them all up (even substracting those that may be open to interpretation or those i erred with) and compare them to the situations and realities of all other mayor characters, well:

- she's had her life saved by other characters how many times now (without any intervention whatsoever from her either physically or mentally i may add)?; five times, and not a broken fingernail in her and (so far) no further consequences. Compare to other major characters when they have been in physical danger, even when they survive they do not do so unscathed and sometimes there are further consequences down the road: let's say Robb, in battle with Jaime his loyal bodyguards get killed until Jaime is finally subdued, ok, but ultimately it became a huge problem for him because of Lord Karstark's want for vengeance, he gets injured in battle in the westerland and that westerling girl help heal him, we know where that got him, and finally massacred at the red wedding. Who else? Jon Snow, in danger when fighting the wight on Lord Mormont's chamber, survived, but not without scorching his hand to a crisp, in danger when he refused to kill the old man for the thenn's, escaped yes, thanks to the help of Bran but not without taking an arrow to his leg, and now well stabbed several times and maybe dead. Tyrion, survived the kingsguard betrayal but not without losing half his freaking face, survives drowning but Jon Connington pays the price in grayscale. Catelyn (which i never found dislikable btw, i found it quite shocking and sad when she died), got her hands scarred and lost use of some of her fingers when defending coma Bran, got saved once by Tyrion, but later got killed at the red wedding. Brienne, got saved once from certain death by Jaime, and avoided death later on as well but paid for it by having her face all chewed up. Bran, didn't die from the fall but got crippled and invalid for the rest of his life. Joffrey, only once did people tried to kill him and they succeded. Same for Tywin. Theon => Reek (need i say more?). Asha, didn't die in combat but got injured. Davos, survived the fire and water out of pure toughness. Renly, only once 'someone' tried to kill him and succeded. Same for Ned and Robert. Jaime, survived a battle out of skill yes, but later got his hand cut off when captured. And so on and so on. People don't get that many 'lucky saves' in this universe and much less 'freebies' (without any intervention from them whatsoever) but Daenerys...

- about having been raised as a westerosi 'princess', ok, perhaps not the right word as she was not raised in great luxury or somesuch, but she was raised knowing she was a westerosi princess, by her westerosi brother (who was raised as a westerosi prince himself), and therefore with obligatory westerosi values (can't teach/learn what you don't know). You may say she's 'brilliantly adaptable' in order to do so with such relative ease (as opposed to characters who have struggled for quite a while with their difficult change of circumstances, such as Bran, Catelyn, Sansa and Tyrion), but i don't think those 'westerosi princess' values nor her time of adaptation among the dothraki included the knowledge of how to properly deal with sellsword companies or plan strategies.

- about the fire, when she hatched the eggs by entering into a funeral pyre she is immune to fire, later on, when she whips the black dragon into submission, the dragon spits fire at her, she goes through it, Barristan says that she saw her hair and clothing on fire (which happened also on the funeral pyre), and we see her later on unburnt, with the exception of her complaint about her hands (which i'm not sure about if those were not about the dragon's back scales being very rough to hold on to or something), but in any case, looks pretty immune (or now 90% resistance, heh).

- the fact that she managed to hatch the dragons (those marvelous f-16's of awe, death and destruction), was just a miracle falling into her lap just because she's super gifted blood or coincidentally a prophesized messiah or whatever. Fine, i can accept that, no real problem, but, it adds up.

- the first time she has sex with Drogo is out-of-character (for a Dothraki) no one will convince me otherwise, even the tv show changed that scene (one of 2 things they changed that was actually good, the rest was nonsense).

- every fleet of ships we get to see or read mention of, loses ships; Stannis's, Victarion's, Saan's, Night Watch's, Aegon's, not Daenerys's.

- about the plague, i don't buy that 'beach bathing beats deadly plague' argument.

- Quaithe (giving her advice) is aparently never wrong in her predictions, while, for instance, Melissandre is.

- and yes, her enemies are cardboard 2 dimensional evil guys so moronic that for all her poor decisions she keeps beating them and (taking Tyrion at his word, whom we know is actually good and experienced with strategy) the yunkai siege is pretty much doomed already. Aparently there's nowhere to be found in that continent some smart comanders such as Tywin, Bolton, Tarly, etc. How 'lucky' for her.

- the ones who are comming (or came in the case of Quentyn) do so to offer alliances and/or advice, with the possible exception of Victarion who will at some point try to make a move (if he lives long enough), but he'll probably be just used by someone else and probably fail (we've seen already that he's not very bright and easily manipulated).

Anyway, compare, no other character in this universe is that ridiculously super human lucky, making her stick out like a sore thumb.

All that's not taking into account her own decisions, personality, etc, that got some interesting discussion in this here thread too, for that, i have to agree with a few posters here on the 'perhaps good intentions, poor execution'. How's that saying goes 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'? let's hope it comes to that with her character.