Robb's Last Document?

[Bolivar]

I can't see Jon taking the title King in the North, nor Protector of the Realm. It just goes against everything his character has been built up to be. We're also assuming that he will survive. We all need to prepare for the very real possibility that Jon is indeed dead. I think his death might be tied up in the sacrifice of King's blood that Melisandre wants and Dany used with Drogo, so maybe something crazy will happen on that.

I think the reason Robb's will was brought up in the same book that Bran explored The Gift may be that Robb planned to gift more of the North to the Night's Watch, because of the impending winter and the inability of the North to endure as a kingdom if something happend to Robb and his main host. I do think a larger Gift was in the will somewhere.

I also don't think he named Jon his heir. I don't think it would be brought up to Catelyn if that was what he was going to do. I feel he probably asked Catelyn because he knew it was risky, and Catelyn's approval, the character who hated Jon the most, would be the only indicator that such a risky move was really that good of a deal.

I wouldn't be surprised if Manderly's gotten the jist of the will and rescuing Rickon in exchange for pledging for Stannis is what Robb actually wanted.

We all need to realise that if this King in the North fiasco isn't over with, it's about to be shortly. No one is going to care about kings when the snow's piled up hundreds of feet, entire villages are buried, food supplies are completely exhausted, and the Others are riding through the land on giant spiders. They need food and it's simply not there. I think Stannis' or Jon's deal witht he Iron Bank will also take care of that, but it will only be Dany's dragons that take care of the Others.

[Lyanna Stark]

I can't see Jon taking the title King in the North, nor Protector of the Realm. It just goes against everything his character has been built up to be. We're also assuming that he will survive. We all need to prepare for the very real possibility that Jon is indeed dead. I think his death might be tied up in the sacrifice of King's blood that Melisandre wants and Dany used with Drogo, so maybe something crazy will happen on that.

A death will release him from his vows though, so technically, if the NW elects another Commander because Jon is dead, and Mel somehow breathes fire into him and he lives again, it would mean he is now free to go on his merry (or not so merry) way to be King in the North or whatever else he wants to do.

The vow says: Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

Since Mel keeps seeing him when she wants to see Azor Azhai, it seems likely that he is AA and Mel will somehow save him from Death's door. Which means he will be free of the NW.

[Arya Targaryen]

I can't see Jon taking the title King in the North, nor Protector of the Realm. It just goes against everything his character has been built up to be.

I'm not so sure. I think he will accept the title, if it comes from Robb, if it doesn't mean usurping his brothers' right, and especially it it is needed to be done in order to fight against the Others.

I also don't think he named Jon his heir. I don't think it would be brought up to Catelyn if that was what he was going to do. I feel he probably asked Catelyn because he knew it was risky, and Catelyn's approval, the character who hated Jon the most, would be the only indicator that such a risky move was really that good of a deal.

I wouldn't be surprised if Manderly's gotten the jist of the will and rescuing Rickon in exchange for pledging for Stannis is what Robb actually wanted.

I would be really surprised in that case. Robb seemed very determined, and Catelyn felt defeated when Robb passed on his wis will to his bannermen to be signed.

We all need to realise that if this King in the North fiasco isn't over with, it's about to be shortly. No one is going to care about kings when the snow's piled up hundreds of feet, entire villages are buried, food supplies are completely exhausted, and the Others are riding through the land on giant spiders. They need food and it's simply not there. I think Stannis' or Jon's deal witht he Iron Bank will also take care of that, but it will only be Dany's dragons that take care of the Others.

I think you miss one point. With winter and the Other coming the North desperately needs a leader who has all the strategic knowledge how to survive. Stannis may be a good soldier or military leader, but he has no idea about winter. And he worships the wrong god, and it may cause future problems. Not to mention his idiotic knights.

Jon, on the other hand, is a northener, probably got the appropriate education about how to survive winter (and has good ideas - glasshouse?) AND is a military leader. And a Stark. And probably Robb's heir if ever the will turns up.

I think when finally Jon decides to take a leadership position, he won't kneel to Stannis. The LC of the Watch is independent, so he had some room in refusing a few of Stannis' wishes etc. If he kneels as a Stark, he has to do whatever Stannis wants, and he most certainly will have different ideas. And it's not like Stannis has a lot of options: he is stuck in the North, his men are unable to deal with winter and they are outnumbered by northeners, who are Stark loyalists. Manderly offered his loyalty, but he offered HIS loyalty, not that of House Manderley, and we all know (at least it seems to be obvious) he is on a suicide mission in Winterfell. Should he die, his son is not bound to keep is word.

On a side note: I think Jon will soon learn about his parentage as well. So he can stand up to Stannis and say: Hey, it was your brother who killed my father! One more reason not to kneel.

[witless chum]

Is anyone else reading Jon's decision to take care of the Boltons as a sound strategic decision? He can't focus sufficiently on the fight against the Others if the Boltons can attack his rear. Ramsay is a loose cannon. I'm sure Jon initially got the idea to ride out because the letter pissed him off, but it is still a good idea. Although once again not sufficiently explained to his lieutenants to garner their full support. He's got to wise up on that part.

He also needs Mance, both his experience about conditions beyond the wall and Mance's ability to lead organize the new Wildling recruits.

Yeah. I think Jon has been consistent in behaving as if the Others are on his doorstep and has subordinated everything else to that. If he thinks the Boltons are going to attack the Night's Watch, then the best way for him to fufill his oath to defend the realm is to kill the Boltons. It's the only way to be sure that someone who understands the danger is in charge of the best defense, the Wall itself.

I think Jon can mix business with pleasure on this one and take off the heads of whatever Boltons he can get within Longclaw-range.

[Toddpch]

I was rereading adwd when I remembered about the will. So now I'm wondering if the letter Stannis received from the 10 year old Mormont girl was really talking about Robb.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I was rereading adwd when I remembered about the will. So now I'm wondering if the letter Stannis received from the 10 year old Mormont girl was really talking about Robb.

Well it wouldn't have been talking about Robb because Robb would have already been dead by the time it was sent. I do wonder to whom it referred — Jon, Bran, Rickon, some other heir, Robb's crackpot unborn child, etc. — but it's not Robb.

[the Scorpion Knight]

When did Asha obtain his will?

I said will cast. future tense (considering she might or will have a high position position in the north)

[Falrinn]

I can't see Jon taking the title King in the North, nor Protector of the Realm. It just goes against everything his character has been built up to be. We're also assuming that he will survive. We all need to prepare for the very real possibility that Jon is indeed dead. I think his death might be tied up in the sacrifice of King's blood that Melisandre wants and Dany used with Drogo, so maybe something crazy will happen on that.

I think the reason Robb's will was brought up in the same book that Bran explored The Gift may be that Robb planned to gift more of the North to the Night's Watch, because of the impending winter and the inability of the North to endure as a kingdom if something happend to Robb and his main host. I do think a larger Gift was in the will somewhere.

I also don't think he named Jon his heir. I don't think it would be brought up to Catelyn if that was what he was going to do. I feel he probably asked Catelyn because he knew it was risky, and Catelyn's approval, the character who hated Jon the most, would be the only indicator that such a risky move was really that good of a deal.

I wouldn't be surprised if Manderly's gotten the jist of the will and rescuing Rickon in exchange for pledging for Stannis is what Robb actually wanted.

We all need to realise that if this King in the North fiasco isn't over with, it's about to be shortly. No one is going to care about kings when the snow's piled up hundreds of feet, entire villages are buried, food supplies are completely exhausted, and the Others are riding through the land on giant spiders. They need food and it's simply not there. I think Stannis' or Jon's deal witht he Iron Bank will also take care of that, but it will only be Dany's dragons that take care of the Others.

At the time the will was written, Robb had every reason to think Bran and Rickon were dead, it was a complete fluke that Manderly found out they weren't. In fact the whole point of the will is to keep Sansa, and therefore Tyrion. from inheriting Winterfell because she was (apparently) next in line should something happen to Robb before he had a child. The result of this would technically make Tyrion Lannister King-in-the-North without a will explicitly stating otherwise, obviously not a tolerable situation.

The will probably names Jon given how adamant Robb was and the lack of any other viable candidates. While there is an outside possibility it names someone else (my money would be on Howland Reed if that was the case), I find it extremely unlikely. I also doubt he would of included anything about bending the knee to Stannis, since the whole point of the King-in-the-North deal was that the Northern lords didn't want to be ruled by the Iron Throne anymore.

Also I am not convinced the arrival of the Others will make the political instability of Westeros go away. I don't think it makes any sense for GRRM to spend 5 books setting up a massively complex political system for it all be be rendered moot once winter actually came.

[Jory]

I'm not so sure. I think he will accept the title, if it comes from Robb, if it doesn't mean usurping his brothers' right, and especially it it is needed to be done in order to fight against the Others.

Yes, because the title King in the North will somehow let him fight the Others better. Wait... what?

Also, that's exactly what it means. Rickon showing up with Davos, and then Jon saying "hey, no, the will says it's me that's King in the North" - that's usurping his brothers' right, especially considering R+L=J, which Howland Reed knows. Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover likewise know that the will was written when Robb thought that his brothers were both dead... if it turns out that one or both of them are alive, well.

[Old Man Aegon]

Yes, and not only that, he already refused the Lord of Winterfell tittle, why would he choose to become something even bigger, a king, now? No, my opinion is that this king of the north stuff is done for good.

He refused because it felt wrong when it came from Stannis. He would be made to look like a greedy jelouse bastard who took what he could after his brothers deaths. But if Robb wanted him to follow him it's a different thing. It will be like its Jons duty towards his brother to honor the trust Robb put in him. Oh and also people will follow him easier if Robb gave him the title and not some upjumped lordling from the south.

[LuisDantas]

Being King of the North or even just Lord Stark of Winterfell will indeed help Jon in fighting the Others, because it will motivate the Northmen better.

As for Jon usurping his brothers, I don't think it is fair to accuse him of being an usurper if he decides to follow the will of his late brother. It would technically be Robb usurping Bran in favor of Jon, I suppose.

That however is neither Jon's choice or fault, nor a bad idea given that even if the whereabouts of Bran, Rickon, Sansa and Arya were publicly known they would still be largely unsuited to rule for various reasons (mainly age).

[John Ball]

Yes, because the title King in the North will somehow let him fight the Others better. Wait... what?

Also, that's exactly what it means. Rickon showing up with Davos, and then Jon saying "hey, no, the will says it's me that's King in the North" - that's usurping his brothers' right, especially considering R+L=J, which Howland Reed knows. Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover likewise know that the will was written when Robb thought that his brothers were both dead... if it turns out that one or both of them are alive, well.

That depends on which surfaces first, the will or Rickon. Bringing the two into accidental conflict would seem like the kind of cruel drama that happens in this series.

But being King will well help Jon fight The Others. He's not going to fight them on his own, it's not just a word. If he were King In The North he could rally the north against the threat.

[Arya Targaryen]

Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover likewise know that the will was written when Robb thought that his brothers were both dead... if it turns out that one or both of them are alive, well.

In that case he can still accept regency. He will be de facto King. Rickon is like... 7-8? Bran is stuck in a tree, Sansa is disinherited, Arya... will anyone recognize her if she turns up? (Actually, I think Jon will...)

[jarl the climber]

I wonder what Jon does when he finds out Robb named him King but left the key to the wineseller to the Greatjon :bawl:

[Lord Damian]

Alys Karstark, however, I do not know if this would fly but it could, she is a Stark, the rightful ruler of Kharhold, therefore she is the next legitimate Stark. Also, her introduction into the series is not really necessary unless something like this comes into play.

[psychogobstopper]

Alys Karstark, however, I do not know if this would fly but it could, she is a Stark, the rightful ruler of Kharhold [...]

Alys Karstark is not the heir to Karhold; her brother Harrion is, though he is currently held captive by Lannister forces. Their uncle Arnolf hoped that his declaring for Stannis would result in the Lannisters executing Harrion, thus making Alys the heir, at which time he would marry his son Cregan to her in order to claim Karhold for himself.

[ElizaMartell]

What about if Robb made one of the Vale lords his heir? What then?

[kephv]

What about if Robb made one of the Vale lords his heir? What then?

Then they'd try to stake their claim to the north, probably. Though Robb made is pretty clear he didn't think so highly of that idea.

[David Selig]

Eh, vehemently disagree. I think that now that the North's tasted autonomy, they won't be so willing to go back. I hope they don't.

Yeah, because autonomy in the last few years worked out great for them. Oh, wait...

The "King in the North" idea was an epic failure. I hope the Northern lords have learned their lesson, but a lot of them seem too stupid for that.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Yeah, because autonomy in the last few years worked out great for them. Oh, wait...

The "King in the North" idea was an epic failure. I hope the Northern lords have learned their lesson, but a lot of them seem too stupid for that.

The King in the North 'idea' was the way it was for the North for thousands of years, as compared to the aberration of Westeros being united for the past 300 years. Without dragons there is no reason to believe the rest of Westeros can subdue a North that does not consent to being subdued. Their land is vast, wild, and has the natural defensive geographic feature of the neck. An invading army in winter will have a hell of a time against Northmen who know the land and the climate. They have a unique culture that separates them from the rest of Westeros and an independent spirit. There is a reason the North was a separate kingdom for almost all of its history.

You want them to learn the 'lesson' of the past few years, instead of the lesson of the rest of their thousands of years of existence.