[Book Spoilers] EP201 Discussion

[Arkash]

About the CGI, is it only me, or Grey Wind's legs are just too damn thin... I dont know but they do not seem any muscular or powerful, only thick and thin little things, that did disturb me a lot when we saw him !

[teemo]

About the CGI, is it only me, or Grey Wind's legs are just too damn thin... I dont know but they do not seem any muscular or powerful, only thick and thin little things, that did disturb me a lot when we saw him !

It's definitely not perfect. But I liked it well enough.

[Maginor]

About the CGI, is it only me, or Grey Wind's legs are just too damn thin... I dont know but they do not seem any muscular or powerful, only thick and thin little things, that did disturb me a lot when we saw him !

That's a real wolf though. It's only been enlarged.

[TheRiderThatMounts]

About the CGI, is it only me, or Grey Wind's legs are just too damn thin... I dont know but they do not seem any muscular or powerful, only thick and thin little things, that did disturb me a lot when we saw him !

To be quite honest, the wolves in the books are not dire wolves. Dire wolves were not as big and did not have long legs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf

And they weren't that smart either.

But I guess the wolves in ASoIaF are special and it's ok.

They are built to look more like wolf kings, different than common wolves, and also like war dogs, big and powerful, capable of killing men at arms.

[Auska]

I don't think it resonated emotionally cause that wasn't what the directors were going for. Rather than make us feel for a character that dies in the first scene, they use it to give us an idea of just how powerful and scary Melisandre is. I liked it better that way, myself

Yes, probably out of necessity. Cressen's character is pretty much completely built in the internal monologue; the only way to get that in would have been a (lengthy) discussion with a confidante, or maybe a letter to a pen pal. Perhaps they'll return it later in the season, with maybe the Onion Knight making references to Cressen's long service and replacement by Mel. Or not. Still, we see that he doesn't react to Cressen trying to poison her in the start, a hint too…

I have to say, Mel looked a bit underwhelming in the service on the beach. She had much more of that unrealistically-clean-for-middle-ages-must-be-magic look in the war council.

…

I liked Cersei being more animated. I think they're starting to foreshadow the descent into madness (which, again, relied heavily on exposition).

…

Also, the wolves! Awesome.

…

Will have to rewatch tomorrow or so.

[Eyehate]

I'm not one of those believers, but that doesn't necessarily prove anything. Whoever put that in there could be anyone. Just by the scene alone that's really what it looked like, so who can blame them?

Any theory about S=J is built upon inferences and reading into things. Those inferences have logic to them and they definitely build an exciting and convincing argument, but at the end of the day I don't see how inferences compete with explicit refutation. The "it probably isn't canon" reaction was my first reaction as well but then I quickly recognized the first stage of the Kübler-Ross model and opted to skip ahead a bit to acceptance.

I'm always open to a logical argument but I just don't see how I can hold a view that depends on inference and reading into things and with a straight face question the validity of a straight statement of fact...it just seems a bit too selective to me.

[seeyouintee]

To be quite honest, the wolves in the books are not dire wolves. Dire wolves were not as big and did not have long legs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf

And they weren't that smart either.

But I guess the wolves in ASoIaF are special and it's ok.

They are built to look more like wolf kings, different than common wolves, and also like war dogs, big and powerful, capable of killing men at arms.

You're fucking kidding! You mean dire wolves didn't display nearly human intelligence, weigh as much as a horse, and submit their corporeal control to the mental projection of humans? Next you'll tell me people never rode dragons.

[teemo]

Anyone else notice the absence of "my giant of Lannister?"

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

I am not really sure who ordered the bastards killed in the show, whether it was Joffrey or Cersei. In the books it was Cersei IIRC. Anyone has any views on that?

[teemo]

Pretty sure they wanted us to think it was Cersei, but they could have made it more clear, for sure.

[Arkash]

I also loved the opening sequence: the sigils with the names!

On season 1, some of the sigils were not that correct, but here, they're all well chosen !

[Ser Leo Targaryen]

Can I just say that even after reading DWD I hated Theon all over again on the scene he's swearing fealty to Robb?!

[Ran]

The little text bits on the web site for HBO, describing various characters, are not written by the production, I think. So that may well be some web person's assumption.

[Greywolf2375]

Melisandre's necklace glowed when Cressen tried to poison her. I enjoyed that touch.

Hopefully we can look back on this as the pleasant appetizer to a kick-ass season of TV.

That was the other thing - I thought part of the point of Strangler was that it killed without looking like Freddy Kreuger took it to them.

[salt]

Clearly that wasn't the Strangler.

As for the bastards- its never said that Joffrey killed them, yet EVERYONE who hasn't read the books seems to think it was him, based on the reactions I've seen around the net. If they leave it ambiguous thats fine with me, those who read the books will know it was Cersei, but I'll be disappointed if they ever come and and say that it was Joffrey's idea.

[JessStormborn]

Can I just say that even after reading DWD I hated Theon all over again on the scene he's swearing fealty to Robb?!

Yup, every time he talked about how loyal he was to Robb I wanted to throw something at the TV. Man this series really does something to me ;)

[Raksha the Demon]

About the CGI, is it only me, or Grey Wind's legs are just too damn thin... I dont know but they do not seem any muscular or powerful, only thick and thin little things, that did disturb me a lot when we saw him !

Real wolves have comparatively slender legs, compared to Malamutes and some other wolflike dog breeds, at least from what I've observed. CGI-Grey Wind's nose was a bit long compared to his skull, but that's a very small flaw and may not be justified, since I only just got a brief glimpse of his muzzle. I did love the real 'wolves' of last season, but they weren't big enough to be direwolves. I'll never forget my surprise when Bran's three or four-month old wolf cub turns into a snarling lupine killing machine of at least ten months - in the space of three weeks. Soap Opera aging! (both the young wolfish pup, seen whining while Bran plays Spiderman on the tower, and the pup's much older and bigger assassin who saves Catelyn and comatose Bran from the assassin, were lovely actors, though!)

[Lebronn Jaime]

I'm not understanding the criticisms of Craster. His keep was exactly as described in the books, and he himself was as ornery and hale. Would someone mind citing the passages that lead them to believe he should be more decrepit? The passages I recall allude to the fact that he's actually pretty formidable phisycally. I'll join the chorus in decrying the LF/Cersei scene as I did when Ran and Linda made their report, but I can see why they'd write that in for future plot development. There were a couple incongruences I couldn't stomach though. Dany's silver dying was one. Stannis receiving Ned's letter was another. A good episode overall though. I shot up when I saw the Dragonstone scene, and I wasn't as disappointed by Cressen's diminished role as I thought I'd be. I still hope we get someone musing about Stannis' upbringing later in the series so that he's as relatable to the tv-only audience as he can be to a reader.

[YoungGriff the Conqueror]

One small question,

How did Osha, a wildling, know that the comet signified the return of the dragons?

Was this mentioned in the books?

[Little Miss Sunshine]

Hi :)

Just finished watching the episode, and here's what I have to say:

Good points:

- Opening sequence - Dragonstone! Yay!

- Tyrion's look to Cersei when they haven't got Arya. Priceless xD

- CGI direwolves - Greywind scared the hell out of me. That part where he pretends to bit Jamie was probably used to "mimic" the book scene where Robb makes Greywind growl menaciously to Cleos Frey (?);

- The last sequence with the Golden Cloaks and the bastards. The coordination, the music, the final part with Gendry riding up North - simply perfect in my opinion! And the actor who plays Janos Slynt must be good because I'm already itching with hate for the show character, even if so far he's been portrayed as less pompous and full of himself than in the book.

Bad points:

- Cersei / Littlefinger scene - completely out-of-character for Littlefinger IMO, to defy someone so openly, specially someone from the Royal Family. He's supposed to be everyone's friend and no one's enemy, pulling the strings from the shadows.

- The way they rushed the Dragonstone storyarch. Although actors are good (Carice was stupendous for me!) and it was well-acted, I felt something was missing, which makes me sad, because it's one of the storyarchs I like the most in the books.

As for "who sent the order to kill the bastards?", from the book I always get the impression that the order came from Cersei, specially due to the conversation between Tyrion and Janos Slynt. If it came from Joffrey instead... well, it would give another feel to it. Cersei was the one trying to make sure her kid sat on the Iron Throne, Joffrey always thought he was Robert's son. I do, however, understand if in the tv show they make it the other way around to give more depth to Joff's cowardness.

A good, steady, but not-perfect episode. All in all a good start for the new season ;)