A Thread for Small Questions XVI

[rmholt]

On the topic of shades i did find a passage in AFFC that suggested "shade" is more general and includes wights, revenants, and some other thing I cant recall.

[rmholt]

I don't think so, with the quote that @Northern found it shows that if die north of the wall, and your body is not burned then after some time, not much time, you will rise again as a wight.

And this is a recent "condition", caused by the return of the Others.

The confusing part to me was all the unburnt bodies after the first Wall battle. It was just the day after tho.

[corbon]

On the topic of shades i did find a passage in AFFC that suggested "shade" is more general and includes wights, revenants, and some other thing I cant recall.

Not to doubt your word or anything, but I'll believe that only when I see the quote. Every passage I know of that includes the word shade clearly references ghosts/spirits.

[ghost the direwolf]

Did Jorah knew about Mirri Marz Durr warning "not to enter into the tent once she start the blood sacrifice" when he took Dany in?

[Lebronn Jaime]

Did Jorah knew about Mirri Marz Durr warning "not to enter into the tent once she start the blood sacrifice" when he took Dany in?

No, he had gone to armor himself due to the threat from Drogo's bloodriders and returned after the ritual had started.

[Faceless Frog Eater]

If Jaqen H'ghar is a FM how is it that he follows the Red God (The Red God must have his due - death pays for life and so forth) Is it that the God of Many Faces incorporates all gods? He is clearly a follower of the Lord of Light at some level.

Not sure but I think he's following his own agenda maybe he went over to the red god

[ClashOfTheAsh]

Not sure but I think he's following his own agenda maybe he went over to the red god

i think it was due to 3 lives being saved from fire and so 3 must be returned to fire (red god).

the house of black and white has statues of many god and i think that all gods are part of the many faced god.

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

i think it was due to 3 lives being saved from fire and so 3 must be returned to fire (red god).

the house of black and white has statues of many god and i think that all gods are part of the many faced god.

Yes.

And I'd also add that it's possibly not even the entire "godhood" of the gods, but rather the aspect of death for each god/religion. For some religions, this could be something very specific --- think the Stranger in the the religion of the Seven. For others, there may not be such a clearly defined aspect of death. (Note that the Great Other is most likely not an "aspect of death" for followers of R'hllor, just as Satan is not an "aspect of death" in Christianity --- therefore the part of the Many-Faced God representing R'hllorism would just be R'hllor itself.)

[Rune Targaryen]

OK here is one of my questions - where was Renly when Stannis was holding out under siege during Robert's Rebellion?

Yes, he tells Cat and some others of how they almost had to eat human flesh on the siege.

Yes.

And I'd also add that it's possibly not even the entire "godhood" of the gods, but rather the aspect of death for each god/religion. For some religions, this could be something very specific --- think the Stranger in the the religion of the Seven. For others, there may not be such a clearly defined aspect of death. (Note that the Great Other is most likely not an "aspect of death" for followers of R'hllor, just as Satan is not an "aspect of death" in Christianity --- therefore the part of the Many-Faced God representing R'hllorism would just be R'hllor itself.)

I always thought like this, I don't think that he is a follower of Rholor, just a follower of Death, in every religion.

[eivers]

How old was Robert when he was fostered out, and was their any reason given about why the Robert the firstborn was fostered out and not a younger son. It seems weird that when the heir should be learning about his lands and those sworn to the house that he is being raised in the Eyrie.

[Lady Octarina]

How old was Robert when he was fostered out, and was their any reason given about why the Robert the firstborn was fostered out and not a younger son. It seems weird that when the heir should be learning about his lands and those sworn to the house that he is being raised in the Eyrie.

I think he was sent to the Vale right after his parents' death (when he was, what? 12?), on someone's suggestion that it would be good for him to be away from Storm's End during those days (was it Cressen?). But you're right, it's strange that they sent Robert, not Stannis. So maybe that old theory about the maesters' master plan is correct and they only sent Robert because they realized he would be easier to influence than Stannis? Because all things about being a lord he could have learned just as easily with the maester in Storm's End, it doesn't make sense to leave those responsibilities to his younger brother.

[Rune Targaryen]

I think he was sent to the Vale right after his parents' death (when he was, what? 12?), on someone's suggestion that it would be good for him to be away from Storm's End during those days (was it Cressen?). But you're right, it's strange that they sent Robert, not Stannis. So maybe that old theory about the maesters' master plan is correct and they only sent Robert because they realized he would be easier to influence than Stannis? Because all things about being a lord he could have learned just as easily with the maester in Storm's End, it doesn't make sense to leave those responsibilities to his younger brother.

He could have learned with the maester, but I don't think that other lords would agree with you, they probably thought that he should learn with another Lord, but to avoid one of his Lords to influence him to much they send him to another great lord far away from his home.

[Dragonfish]

On the topic of shades i did find a passage in AFFC that suggested "shade" is more general and includes wights, revenants, and some other thing I cant recall.

You meant this one?

"I fear no shade, ser. It is written in The Seven-Pointed Star that spirits, wights, and revenants cannot harm a pious man, so long as he is armoured in his faith."

I could see why you might think this quote suggests that "shade" can refer to wights as well. However, that is not the only reading. It is also possible the only item that "shade" is synonymous with in this quote is "spirit", and that the speaker simply adds "wights" and "revenants" to the list because those are other forms of undead that the pious man need not fear. Given that the word "shade" refers to ghosts or spirits in every other instance it is used, I find the latter interpretation to be more likely.

[rmholt]

You meant this one?

"I fear no shade, ser. It is written in The Seven-Pointed Star that spirits, wights, and revenants cannot harm a pious man, so long as he is armoured in his faith."

I could see why you might think this quote suggests that "shade" can refer to wights as well. However, that is not the only reading. It is also possible the only item that "shade" is synonymous with in this quote is "spirit", and that the speaker simply adds "wights" and "revenants" to the list because those are other forms of undead that the pious man need not fear. Given that the word "shade" refers to ghosts or spirits in every other instance it is used, I find the latter interpretation to be more likely.

I appreciate your finding this for me - I was not looking forward to looking for it!! So much underlined and noted in my books it has almost become less useful.

Marie

[rmholt]

Ok on shades, etc.

Since GRRM appears to be drawing from medieval England:

A shade is a pretty general term and originates from the words for "darkness" So in Mel's world, for instance, and apparently GRRMs world, a shade is a manifestation from the dark or evil or death side of things.

A wight originally is a living sentient thing. Fantasy lit has used the word for dead creatures with still some of their soul left.

A spirit seems to be a soul separate from the body.

A revenant is something that has come back from the dead after a long time.

GRRM has apparently diverged from fantasy usage with "lich" which apparently in westeros stay dead as in the original meaning.

[DirePenguin]

Still reading AGOT but really curious why Yohn Royce was called "Bronze" Yohn Royce? Does the word Bronze refer to certain events?

[James Arryn]

Still reading AGOT but really curious why Yohn Royce was called "Bronze" Yohn Royce? Does the word Bronze refer to certain events?

His armor.

[Fire Eater]

What James Arryn said. the Royces keep an ancestral set of bronze armor that dates back to the First Men before the Andal invasion inscribed with runes that are said to ward the wearer from harm.

[Sera dy Relandrant]

Why didn't Cersei have any children after Tommem, for like seven years?

[Serie]

Why didn't Cersei have any children after Tommem, for like seven years?

a quick guess: she would only have children with Jaime, that's pretty clear I believe. So, having all her kids being Lannister-blonde would draw some more attention and suspicion. Three kids were enough to make certain people aware that something fishy was going on. Besides, why having more?