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Lucreel

So, how do you think Jamie will kill Cersei?

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So, we know that Jamie is (very probably) going to kill Cersei. Any thoughts on how/why?

You might wonder why I have such assurance that Jamie's going to kill her - well, it's the prophecy that Cersei has been obsessing over. The reason she hates and distrusts Tyrion, of course - the prophecy that she would be killed by her little brother. Since, in literature, it's a cliche that the characters ALWAYS misinterpret the prophecy, we can safely assume that Tyrion is NOT the little brother, but in fact Jamie is (it has been stated on several occasions in the books that Cersei was born a few minutes before Jamie; it even plays a role in her view that she should be the rightful heir to Casterly Rock).

As soon as we learned the meaning of the word in the prophecy (I don't remember if it was in Feast for Crows or Dance With Dragons where GRRM finally revealed the meaning of the word, was it, Dondarrion, or something like that, and meant little brother), it became clear that the prophecy was most likely about Jamie (at least, to me).

I can definitely see that a rift is growing between Jamie and Cersei, but it'll be interesting to see under what circumstances he actually kills her.

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My guess is that, unless Lady Stoneheart kills him, he's going back to King's Landing and tell the truth about the incest and that he is the kid's real father. That would seal both her fate and his, since that's high treason they would both be beheaded most likely.

I just hope that Tommen and Myrcella don't die because of it, the poor kids didn't ask for it.

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Strangling her (he's the valonqar), as she's about to burn King's Landing, thus ironically mirroring Jaime's most famous (and, arguably, his most virtuous) act of killing Aerys. Of course, Cersei will somehow kill Jaime at the same time, perhaps via hidden dagger? Poisoned wine? Who knows?

Either way they're destined to die together.

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Strangling her (he's the valonqar), . . .

You're right, the word I was trying to think of from the prophecy was valonqar, or something like that. Dondarrion is the name of one of the knights. Beric Dondarrion. So many 'new words' in the books, sometimes I get a bit of word-soup in my brain.

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Strangling her (he's the valonqar), as she's about to burn King's Landing, thus ironically mirroring Jaime's most famous (and, arguably, his most virtuous) act of killing Aerys. Of course, Cersei will somehow kill Jaime at the same time, perhaps via hidden dagger? Poisoned wine? Who knows?

Either way they're destined to die together.

I agree the cause of death will be strangulation when Cersei is about to burn KL. Jaime will strangle her using the Hand's chain ("wrap his hands around your pale white throat"), sometime after he has finally accepted the position of Hand like Cersei wanted. After Cersei loses Tommen and Myrcella, and KL is under attack, she knows the war is lost, and will want go out in style taking out KL with her. After Jaime kills her, he'll probably kill himself. ("We came into this world together, we'll leave it together.")

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I agree the cause of death will be strangulation when Cersei is about to burn KL. Jaime will strangle her using the Hand's chain ("wrap his hands around your pale white throat"), sometime after he has finally accepted the position of Hand like Cersei wanted. After Cersei loses Tommen and Myrcella, and KL is under attack, she knows the war is lost, and will want go out in style taking out KL with her. After Jaime kills her, he'll probably kill himself. ("We came into this world together, we'll leave it together.")

This is pretty much how I see it happened, although I think his motives might differ somewhat. I also think he could use his golden hand and his good hand to strangle her.

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I agree the cause of death will be strangulation when Cersei is about to burn KL. Jaime will strangle her using the Hand's chain ("wrap his hands around your pale white throat"), sometime after he has finally accepted the position of Hand like Cersei wanted. After Cersei loses Tommen and Myrcella, and KL is under attack, she knows the war is lost, and will want go out in style taking out KL with her. After Jaime kills her, he'll probably kill himself. ("We came into this world together, we'll leave it together.")

I don't think, that there will be another strangulation by a Hand's Chain in the series. GRRM has shown us allready, that he deslikes copy/paste in his books (and exactly the same happened once between Tyrion and Shae). You can see an example of this pattern in a trial by combat for Tyrion - in the GOT his champion (Bronn) killed his opponent (Ser Vardys Eggen) but in AFFC his champion (Oberin Martel) was killed by Ser Gregor. So even if Jaimie will try to srangle her with a Chain - he will fail, most likely

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You might wonder why I have such assurance that Jamie's going to kill her - well, it's the prophecy that Cersei has been obsessing over. The reason she hates and distrusts Tyrion, of course - the prophecy that she would be killed by her little brother. Since, in literature, it's a cliche that the characters ALWAYS misinterpret the prophecy, we can safely assume that Tyrion is NOT the little brother, but in fact Jamie is (it has been stated on several occasions in the books that Cersei was born a few minutes before Jamie; it even plays a role in her view that she should be the rightful heir to Casterly Rock).

You know GRRM could always subvert the trope and have Tyrion as the killer. Or it could be to show us, as the reader that Cersei bought her demise on herself by mistreating Tyrion to cause him to hate her. Self-fulfilling the prophecy.

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So, we know that Jamie is (very probably) going to kill Cersei. Any thoughts on how/why?

You might wonder why I have such assurance that Jamie's going to kill her - well, it's the prophecy that Cersei has been obsessing over. The reason she hates and distrusts Tyrion, of course - the prophecy that she would be killed by her little brother.

I think you are wrong here. The prophecy says, in exact words -

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

- that valonqar (little brother) will kill her, but it does not specify her little brother will be the one. That's the reason people suspect variety of valonqars for being responsible for Cersei's death: Tyrion, Jaime (the obvious ones), Stannis, Kevan and Daenerys, among others.

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I think you are wrong here. The prophecy says, in exact words -

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

- that valonqar (little brother) will kill her, but it does not specify her little brother will be the one. That's the reason people suspect variety of valonqars for being responsible for Cersei's death: Tyrion, Jaime (the obvious ones), Stannis, Kevan and Daenerys, among others.

Some people say that valonqar is a gender nuetral term, it could be a female. Joy Hill is reputedly Uncle Gerions, perhaps she was truly Tywins and it is Joy who kills her lol.

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The most likely valonqar from the wording of the prophecy is actually Tommen. Maggy is still speaking about Cersei children and their fates at this point, implying that it's not herbrother, but rather her younger son - the valonqar among her children.

The problem with this is that it's pretty far out of character for Tommen to commit murder kinslaying, and that the prophecy implies that Cersei will outlive her children. A wighted Tommen could work, but I think he's far too much south of the Wall for that to happen anytime soon.

The "valonqar is gender neutral"-theory is likely nonsense. It seemingly stems entirely from Maester Aemons musings that the Valyrian word for dragon is gender neutral - something that certainly don't imply that all words in that language are likewise!

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My personal favorite is that we find out the Faceless Men call the junior acolytes valonqars. As in Arya is now a valonqar.

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I always imagined the scene would happen in a mutual jail cell. I think it important that Cersei actually see Daenerys with her own eyes before the end comes. That's why I'm not in favor of a scenario wherein Cersei is killed before Daenerys ever gets a look at her.

Also, I'm starting to think Casterly Rock is as likely as King's Landing as the scene of the crime.

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Well, if we're expanding beyond her own brothers, that makes the list pretty long of potential candidates. Could be Brandon. . . he's also a little brother. Sure, he's crippled, but him reaching out his hands could be figurative. . . using animal familiars to reach out to strangle her, or something. He's obviously being setup for some role, though it's not entirely clear what. I have a theory that Bran is going to be one of Dany's dragon riders - only he won't literally ride the dragon, but instead, possess it. That's a bit off in the weeds for this discussion, though

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Here are a few of my thoughts on Jamie and Cersei.

Multiple times in the book Jamie and Cersei both have stated, as they looked at their twin or thought about their twin, that they are mirror images of one another. When they look at each other they have the narcissistic view of superiority about themselves. Each draw strength and their perception of self from one another because of this. Throughout their lives they have done everything they can to stay near each other because both draw their identity of self from the other.

Cersei looks at Jamie and sees the power and the masculinity that is Jamie. Cersei's actions and inner dialogue have all been about the disdain she has for her gender and the lack of power that she is able to attain. With Jamie being gone so long, her source of strength and perception of strength, she has lost sight and have grown to be insecure in herself. When she is reunited with her twin shes is even further shocked because Jamie is now maimed and has no hand. Now that her "mirror" image that she has drawn strength from has an obvious weakness which turns to resentment towards him. She is left alone when the father, whom she sees as the embodiment of strength after Jamie, dies. She has turned into a fearful and paranoid person who lashes out at everyone near her. Her situation reminds me of an animal in a trap. They will lash out viciously in an attempt to be free, but in the end further ensnare themselves. Cersei is in a sense strangling herself.

Jamie like Cersei drew his perception of himself from Cersei. His arrogant nature, as he always states he isnt like other men and no other man is like him, and the haughty nature that is Cersei. He has this constant belief of himself as exactly this and there is no other way to be. In walks Brienne. Whose outer appearances are nothing like his sisters, but has the exact type of character, strengths, and sense of honor that Jamie has always wanted to have and "mirror", but thought it to be out of his reach. Jamie begins to become attracted to Brienne, even though he cant understand why, because he is truly attracted to the qualities Brienne contains in herself. When he returns to see Cersei it is apparent to him that the feelings and perception of himself that he had through Cersei are no longer what he really desires. He begins a path to try and be an honorable man.

Both Jamie and Cersei are beginning to pull away from one another, albeit for different reasons. Jamie a shift in ideology and Cersei because of the resentment and her constant thirst to find power that she thinks she cant obtain because of her gender. Cersei is looking for a source of strength to draw from, but isnt finding one.

At first I didnt believe that Jamie wouldn't kill Cersei, but after some thought I believe it will happen. Something extreme enough hasnt happened for Jamie to shed his old perception of himself, but he is on the path to be an honorable man. In order for that to happen Cersei can no longer be apart of his life.

I believe because of the downward spiraling of Cersei's sanity, she will lash out to try and bring back the source of strength and security that she had all of her life in Jamie. The thing that will be standing in between them keeping that from happening is Brienne. As much as I dont like to think about it, I think Cersei will kill Brienne, not necessarily her doing the killing herself but through someone else, in an attempt to get Jamie back. I think that this will have the opposite reaction and Jamie will kill Cersei, and fulfill the valonquar prophecy, as justice/vengeance for Brienne. Whether Jamie actually kills Cersei with his own hands or through a complete rejection of Cersei that would cause her to "strangle" herself through self destructive behavior is something that I am unsure of.

Just my thoughts on this and hopefully I am not reaching too much into things!

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