Chances Ramsay dies a slow agonizing painful epic death!?@#!

[1234567]

I can't substantiate this, but a few months ago on the ADWD forum, one poster highlighted that Theon still ha the necessary fingers left for Archery. I don't know about the sport, but of it is correct, we do know from AGOT that Theon is a crack shot, due to the Wildlings who held Bran hostage. Maybe Theon will get one last shot at honour.

:) Yes that was a cheesy pun!

[Zeromus]

GRRM does seem to give the mad-dog characters memorable deaths. It's usually the subtle-evil characters that thrive in ASoIaF world. George also deals in emotional pay-offs, and giving the Bastard a spectacular death would be a huge emotional pay-off.

[mor2]

I would love to see Ramsay become someone bitch, however unless GRRM is brining the wall down or has some other trick in his sleeve, I dont want him to die too soon, otherwise it would be boring and almost no chapter in the North... (I excpect there will be a lot of focus on oldtown, dorne and "griffin" in the next book )

[Lord Damian]

I hope, Davos, Glover along with Rickon and Shaggy are sneaking up the white knife river with a host. I would love to have Rickon give Shaggy Dog the command to "EAT" Ramsay in front of all of the remaining Northmen, Freys and yes, Stannis. (this would perhaps educate him a little bit)

[Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!]

GRRM does seem to give the mad-dog characters memorable deaths. It's usually the subtle-evil characters that thrive in ASoIaF world. George also deals in emotional pay-offs, and giving the Bastard a spectacular death would be a huge emotional pay-off.

:agree:

I love the deaths of the mountain and the tickler, I think your right!

[Three-finger Hobb]

Yeah, GRRM isn't against poetic deaths (see: Tywin, Janos Slynt, a long list of others, really). He just knows that all deaths certainly aren't poetic.

I could see Ramsay being taken out by Theon, or in any number of more dramatic ways.

For myself, just knowing he's dead will be enough.

[SeanF]

I'm not in favour of torturing even evil people, but I'll make an exception for Ramsay.

[BlueHighwind]

Either Ramsay is going to flay Roose or Roose is going to flay Ramsay. I really don't see those two living together peacefully. Ramsay does need a new Reek now that Theon has run away, maybe Roose is the man for the job.

If Ramsay kills Roose, its really the best thing for the Stannis cause. The North and the Freys really don't want anything to do with this lunatic, and they are looking for a way out of their alliance with him. Stannis would crush Ramsay.

If Roose kills Ramsay, that's the end of his Arya claim to power. Jeyne Poole/Arya is the symbol they need to have a legitimate claim. And they just lost it. Either way, Roose knows Ramsay is his only possible heir, even if he's already accepted that his bastard is out of his mind and destroying their power base. Roose might just be trapped at Winterfell with no more moves, stuck with a madman as a partner. Or maybe he's cunning enough to escape.

Either way, Ramsay is simply too crazy to live. If he was just a soldier under Gregor he might have a niche in the world, but as a wanna-be Greatlord? No way.

[JayDubya]

Crackpot theory: Ramsay Bolton is Azor Ahai.

1) If Bran was "born out of salt and smoke" because of the sack of Winterfell, that would apply to Ramsay Bolton as well.

2) Ramsay Bolton was also "reborn" (from Ramsay Snow) under the bleeding comet

3) Melisandre says she prays for visions of Azor Ahai, and all she sees is snow. We assume Jon Snow, but Ramsay was a Snow as well.

4) If there's a dragon under Winterfell, Ramsay awoke it when he sacked it.

5) Wouldn't it be an amazing trick if the most hated, insane and despicable person in the entire series was the "hero"?

[Budj]

Jay I like that except instead of hero, AA is actually R'hllor's champion of destruction and the Others are actually the good guys...haha.

[Silver Spearwife]

I'd like to back up to someone's mention of Vargo Hoat.

Gregor, Joffrey, Tywin, Janos, etc. have pretty poetic deaths and, for the most part, fans cheer the scenes the whole way. I don't know about you guys, but I was just nauseated when the Goat was killed. Hell, even Jaime couldn't take any pleasure in it. The situations are sort of parallel. Jaime had hoped to personally take out the Bloody Mummers for some sweet revenge, and gets pretty disappointed when it turns out they're mostly either dead or missing (funnily enough, Brienne ends up taking out most of the missing ones). But it didn't work out that way for him. Someone else got to the Goat first, and gave him a perfectly poetic and grotesque death. It's exactly what fans and Jaime hoped for. But it's too much - the poetry is lost to the horror.

Okay, back to Ramsay and Theon, the situation is kind of similar. Many of us would like to see Ramsay die a horrible painful death, preferably at Theon's hands (what's left of them), but we've already seen a situation where that goes overboard.

Not that I'd mind that, if Theon's the one behind it. Theon's so broken anyway, I don't think a little indulgence in revenge and sadism could make him any more pathetic. In other words, Ramsay, even in his dying moments, might end up taking away what little humanity Theon has left. Basically, it becomes about Theon, not Ramsay.

That's just one of many options. While I freely admit that I would absolutely love to see Theon lock Ramsay up in a dungeon and put him through some extensive torture fun time, and that I've even developed some nicely poetic torture that I think would be appropriate, reading this thread has made me think that the most merciful option is Theon figuring out how to pick up a bow again and taking Ramsay out that way. Or somehow leading to his death without personally committing the act. Or, well, basically without going all Arya-Tickler on his ass.

[Jamie Lannister]

Crackpot theory: Ramsay Bolton is Azor Ahai.

1) If Bran was "born out of salt and smoke" because of the sack of Winterfell, that would apply to Ramsay Bolton as well.

2) Ramsay Bolton was also "reborn" (from Ramsay Snow) under the bleeding comet

3) Melisandre says she prays for visions of Azor Ahai, and all she sees is snow. We assume Jon Snow, but Ramsay was a Snow as well.

4) If there's a dragon under Winterfell, Ramsay awoke it when he sacked it.

5) Wouldn't it be an amazing trick if the most hated, insane and despicable person in the entire series was the "hero"?

This would be the ultimate troll. The curveball of curveballs. The "you did not just do that" of... yeah.

He has "Lightbringer" now, too... Oh, I can taste the rage. :devil:

[JayDubya]

He has "Lightbringer" now, too... Oh, I can taste the rage. :devil:

I didn't even think about that! Delicious.

[King Doug]

Ironically it was the manipulations of her and her father that started the chain of events that led Theon to his fate thus far. Wonder if she realizes that.

Good question, I think that would be quite a psychological chapter should Martin decide to include it. With it ending with her vowing to get payback because it was her fault. All just speculation and hoping though...

[King Doug]

If you really want Ramsay to suffer, I'd say that fear is much more effective than pain. What that crazy fucker really fears, though, it's hard to say.

Anyways, I agree with AvengerofWinterfell above: ehead him and be done with it. Not as a punishment, per se, but the man is dangerous (to everybody, even himself) and ought to be removed.

ETA: Not a solution I would condone in real life, but in these novels it would make a grim sense --- you forcibly remove someone who is a threat to everybody's well-being.

Quite a slippery slope you are on there. I'm sure that was the same rationale to kill Elia and her children.

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

Quite a slippery slope you are on there. I'm sure that was the same rationale to kill Elia and her children.

You have a point, of course. However, the reasoning that would lead to the conclusion that they're a threat to everybody's well-being (including the definition of what kind of threat that would be, and what group of people "everybody" represents) would likely highlight a number of very important differences between the two cases.

In any case, I have neither a particular desire to see Ramsay fairly tried (I, as well as many characters in the books, already know he's committed enough crimes), nor one to see him die an agonizing death. Sooner or later, someone (e.g., Manderly, Roose, Stannis) will decide that enough is enough --- it may result in a trial (Stannis), but it's more likely that that someone will just make an end of it (Manderly, Roose).

[James Arryn]

Sorry but not everyone feels like you. I love Theon...

Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that everyone feels as I do, especially given that I don't hate Theon. I meant more 'popularly hated' rather than personally hated.

For me his arc has gone:

Before sack of Winterfell: Kinda liked, thought interesting, saw as potential anti-hero type.

During rule of Winterfell: Kinda meh. Mostly wondered why he had settled into state of paralysis. Found sympathy somewhat wandering. After he lost and was only referred to in passing, I was kinda disappointed I wouldn't know more, but not as much as I'd have been before he decided to out-wait time.

Reek period: Mostly ick. If I've wanted him to die since, its had nothing to do with justice or whatever, but more because reading about him just makes me feel gross, and partly to put him out of his pretty constant misery. Flayed and rotted fingers, eating rats with broken teeth, allusions to worse mutilations, etc. Just kinda how I feel when I read about serial killers or w/e. Gross, skip through quickly if possible.

Preview of WOW: Kinda more interested, maybe because of combination of less concentration on graphic grossness and more because its the first morsel to feed a starving appetite.

At no point did I hate him.

Edit: I should add that I somehow knew the kids he killed weren't Bran and Rickon. Can't remember how. And while I philosophically don't think him less to blame for killing children I don't care about, I'd have to admit that if I had thought he'd kllled the Stark boys it probably would have affected my opinion of him overall.

[Mark Sawyer]

Ramsay's a mad dog, you don't torture him, you put him down.

love that...rite on! classic quote

[Sasha Steelsong]

So i know i know GRRM never gives you what you want, however if karma exists, one would have to reason that the Bastard of Bolton has it coming..so my question is how do you think Ramsays story ends...i am good guy and i would never wish death on anyone but in this case, since he is a fictional character , i cant think of anything else i want more that Ramsay getting flayed while being burned on the rack!!! Hopefully he doesnt survive the books...what do you guys think?

I don't know about never giving me what I want...he just takes a while to get there. For instance it took four books for Janos Slynt to lose his head but it did finally happen. I don't think Ramsey will survive the series, I think his end will be U.G.L.Y though I'd rather his bitches tear him apart under Arya's control though I get the impulse to have him flayed.

[Kings In The North]

My ideal way for both Ramsey's to die would be by beheading, with maybe a little speech beforehand explaining exactly why they're being executed... Same thing for the Frey's... They should execute every Frey that was involved with the Red Wedding, but save Old Walder for last so he has to see each one of his kin beheaded.. Ideally the Northmen and the River Lords will do all you can to kill off both families, while stripping the remaining kin of land, titles, etc.

I have no idea what will happen to Theon, but he should be executed. He's a turn-cloak, and he invaded and held parts of the North. Same goes with his sister, and any other Ironmen. It's hard not to have sympathy for Theon after what he's been through, and I actually like his sister... But when you play a game of thrones you win or you die, or so they say...