What if Stannis Wins?

[The Drunkard]

Well he can legitimize Edric Storm to prevent that, he aint stupid!

He would never do that. His biggest gripe is with having someone behind him in the line of succession get given what he had more right to. #ShireenforQueen

So you would have thought it was better if we got some nameless or bit character rampaging along the walls of King's Landing? I'm not criticising Stannis here - just saying that having him be the one to lead the charge and be the first scale the wall makes for far more awesome scenes rather than having him command before joining the fray like he does in the books and like how others do both in the series and real life

I might've. The Stannis part of that battle was the worst.

[E-Ro]

I might've. The Stannis part of that battle was the worst.

Yeah, this is something I have noticed that not all of us(us meaning the champions of stannis) agree on. Personally it doesn't matter much to me. Both sides of this argument have merits and I think either way it makes sense.

[aceluby]

You do know that episode was written by GRRM. He wanted him to lead and he is pure badass.

And here lies the problem with the StanStans... picking and choosing the characteristics to portray while completely ignoring or whitewashing the others. Stannis on the show is a weak, uncharasmatic, dick that almost every Stannis fan agrees is portrayed as 1 dimensional, yet one scene that is not in the books portrays him as a badass and all of a sudden it's canon. Come on guys...

[Nictarion]

Pretty funny, considering that episode was written by Martin himself, wonder if he changed his mind about how Stannis would've approached the Battle of Blackwater.

See post below

[Nictarion]

In GRRM's screenplay Stannis was leading from the rear, like he did in the books. It was the director Neil Marshall (who haven't read the books and only watched the 1st season of the show at that time) who changed this.

Thanks for the clarification. I remembered something along those lines.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

The way I understand it is the producers give him an outline of what they want and he writes it.

Well then why would he approve to lead Stannis, if he wasn't leading from the books. The producers do give him an outline but that doesn't mean GRRM has to follow, he is in every right to change that.

[Nictarion]

Well then why would he approve to lead Stannis, if he wasn't leading from the books. The producers do give him an outline but that doesn't mean GRRM has to follow, he is in every right to change that.

No he doesn't. He sold the story to HBO. They can do whatever they want. We should quit taking about the show though, this is the book forum.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

No he doesn't. He sold the story to HBO. They can do whatever they want. We should quit taking about the show though, this is the book forum.

Yeah Fair enough, no talking about the show.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

I like how he is portrayed in the show, with the exception of the Mel stuff. I prefer the book Stannis, ofc!

Also, I do believe he is a capable fighter. Robert was exceptional, Stannis was probably average for a noble trained fighter, which is > average soldier.

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

G.R.R.M officially becomes the author to use the most ever Deus Ex Machinas. Ever.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

G.R.R.M officially becomes the author to use the most ever Deus Ex Machinas. Ever.

Not if you count the scriptwriters for Doctor Who.

Actually, I have to disagree. He is a relentless fighter with a just cause. The parties that defy his right are all in very unstable positions and in conflict with each other. He could win after a long and hard fight.

[Stannis-the-Mannis]

Stannis winning it all in the end isn't that hard to imagine.

Assuming he wins and survives the battle at Winterfell and there are no (permanent) deaths for any of the other major characters in the North, his army will include:

Jon

Asha

Melisandre

Davos

Manderly

Whoever lives to lead the wildling remnants (Tormund, Mance, Val??, etc)

I also see Arya hitching a ride back to the North via Justin Massey's ships. If Jon aligns himself with Stannis, it seems to follow that she would too.

And of course, whatever he can buy using the full faith and credit of the Iron Bank

That's actually a hugely formidable group, and I don't see it as that unlikely given that by the end of ADWD, major characters are quite ready to start building coalitions with each other. Dany might have him beat if she somehow gets to keep Tyrion, Victarion, Barristan, Marwyn, Missandei, etc, but that entourage would all have reasons to hate each other while Stannis's group mostly doesn't.

After Winterfell, the first order of business would likely be to return back to the Wall and resolve matters there. It's hard to see him leaving the North for the short or immediate term future, which is crucial b/c the South is about to be a bloodbath: Aegon/Martells vs. Tyrells/Lannisters vs Dany/Greyjoys/whoever else makes it. No way he survives mixed up in that mess. I fully expect the 3 groups to annihilate each other in a mostly pointless war; thus if Stannis saves the realm in the North, he definitely wins the PR campaign in the South.

Obviously there are a ton of obstacles to this happening. Does Stannis beat the Boltons? I feel like too much is working to his favor for the upcoming battle to end as Ramsay claimed it did: the Karstark plot is foiled, the Freys are being led by a known idiot now that Aenys is dead, Ramsay is cunning as a sadist but less so as a military strategist, and Manderly is looking to kill literally everyone else in their army. He also seems to have a plan to turn the ground to their favor now that he knows where the Boltons expect him to be. Beyond that there's the issue of how to get into Winterfell with whatever army he has left, but it's hard to speculate until we know how the first battle turns out.

Longer term obstacles would be retaliation by House Frey, the Vale invading to retake Winterfell for Sansa, and of course the Others. There's also the matter of the North rallying around Jon and telling Stannis to shove it, but Jon was fully invested in helping Stannis prior to getting stabbed. If he even elects to take the title (vs, say, handing it off to Rickon), he might just use it to keep everyone firmly behind the ultimate goals of killing Others and Lannisters, which he and Stannis very much have in common.

[Sam Huxley]

Obviously there are a ton of obstacles to this happening. Does Stannis beat the Boltons? I feel like too much is working to his favor for the upcoming battle to end as Ramsay claimed it did: the Karstark plot is foiled, the Freys are being led by a known idiot now that Aenys is dead, Ramsay is cunning as a sadist but less so as a military strategist, and Manderly is looking to kill literally everyone else in their army. He also seems to have a plan to turn the ground to their favor now that he knows where the Boltons expect him to be. Beyond that there's the issue of how to get into Winterfell with whatever army he has left, but it's hard to speculate until we know how the first battle turns out.

Hahaha his army is starving to death in the freezing cold and eating each other it's that bad. I think a few thousand well fed well armed northmen could easily massacre them, but I too don't think he's dead just yet.

[E-Ro]

Hahaha his army is starving to death in the freezing cold and eating each other it's that bad. I think a few thousand well fed well armed northmen could easily massacre them,

Your wrong brah brah. Terribly wrong.

Stannis bristled at that. "I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"

"Bolton has blundered," the king declared. "All he had to do was sit inside his castle whilst we starved. Instead he has sent some portion of his strength forth to give us battle. His knights will be horsed, ours must fight afoot. His men will be well nourished, ours go into battle with empty bellies. It makes no matter. Ser Stupid, Lord Too-Fat, the Bastard, let them come. We hold the ground, and that I mean to turn to our advantage."

Ever heard of alexander nevsky and the battle of ice?Yes, well this is pretty obvious, but allow me to spell it out. In dance there is alot of foreshadowing for this.1.Stannis and his men are on a lake, the lake is being drilled with numerous holes to fish from, one of the northmen comments on how the lake is fished out and full of holes.2.Stannis comments on how his men will be fighting on foot.3.He remarks on how he holds the ground.4.The man in charge of the freys is an idiot, made even more stupid by his anger and frustration.After the frey force sent after stannis is broken, manderly rides in, makes a deal with stannis takes his sword to roose as proof stannis is dead, and opens up the gates. Simple.

[Ahura Mazda]

If Stannis wins? You mean with his army of wights and white walkers?