Revealing of Jon Snow's mother

[Dyntia]

Targs are in the polygamy-business, so Jon could well be a trueborn Targ and not a bastard

Even recently enough to have a boy born in a hidden marriage no one seems to know of accepted as their king by the other houses in Westeros?

however i think that Jon Snows mother and father are both Nedd Stark.

Can you explain this further?

[drigoly]

Can you explain this further?

magic !

[aryagonnakill]

I agree that Rhaegar and Lyanna are (most likely) Jons parents and that the three members of the Kings Guard were at the tower to protect Lyanna and her kid. However I doubt that Rhaegar and Lyanna were legally married, because, well, Rhaegar was already married. Unless the Targs are in the polygamy-business, there was just no possibility for him to marry another woman. To marry Lyanna Rhaegar would've needed a divorce or Elia's death. We never hear about a divorce and Elia died when Rhaegar was already slain.

So if Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna he still stays a bastard. A Targ-bastard, but nonetheless a bastard.

Or did I miss something important?

I believe this is why GRRM go's through the trouble of having Robb legitimize Jon, I think that the wording will turn out to legitimize Jon as Jon Targaryean.

[Jalapenohitchhiker]

I believe this is why GRRM go's through the trouble of having Robb legitimize Jon, I think that the wording will turn out to legitimize Jon as Jon Targaryean.

Did he refer to Jon as his brother or half brother in the letter? Because if so then that would probably illegitimate the entire letter if Jon turns out to be a Targaryen.

[aryagonnakill]

Did he refer to Jon as his brother or half brother in the letter? Because if so then that would probably illegitimate the entire letter if Jon turns out to be a Targaryen.

I don't think we ever get to hear the wording, if it says that he is now legitimized in the name of his father...

[Free Man]

What if his father is Benjen Stark?

He IS trying to find him all the time, after all... What would the implications be, is Benjen Neds older brother? Inheritance and title claims are not something I am very good at

I am guessing Bran will tell him who his mother is.

[sumant30]

What if his father is Benjen Stark?

He IS trying to find him all the time, after all... What would the implications be, is Benjen Neds older brother? Inheritance and title claims are not something I am very good at

I am guessing Bran will tell him who his mother is.

It is highly impossible that jon is benjen's kid beacuse ned brought him after the battle and during that time benjen was at WF.

[CBroome1979]

Benjen is the youngest Stark brother, so it is highly unlikely that Jon is his child. I'm thinking that when Robb legitimized Jon, it was as Jon Stark. I'm still in the Rhaegar-Lyanna camp. I know GRRM likes to tease/imply things then reveal them for something else, but it all fits into place neatly. Ned with his refusal to discuss Jon's mother, Ned's dream of the Tower of Joy, the other characters in the series who imply that Rhaegar/Lyanna was not necessarily a captor/captive relationship, Ned's squeaky clean honor with it's 'one' tarnished spot. Kind of saddening to think that Catelyn bore this grudge against Jon, when he probably isn't even Ned's bastard. I think it will be Bran to tell Jon about his ancestry, maybe through dreams like Bloodraven did with Bran.

[Ser Jamie lannister]

And, you would explain how Catelyn mistakes a two year old for a newborn, how?

ETA: I am of the group that maintains that GRRM has given the evidence already, and that it is a done deal, Rhaegar married Lyanna, they had a son, delivered at the Tower of Joy, and three Kingsguard, honoring their vow, fought to their death to protect the newborn king.

I agree with this. The kings guard serve to protect the royal family alone, we would they be with lyanna stark if she hadn't already married the crown prince. Surely lyanna would mean nothing to the kings guard if she was just a bit on the side. They would of stayed in kings landing with the remaining royals. I know they loved rheagar but duty is duty.

[Dyntia]

I agree with this. The kings guard serve to protect the royal family alone, we would they be with lyanna stark if she hadn't already married the crown prince. Surely lyanna would mean nothing to the kings guard if she was just a bit on the side. They would of stayed in kings landing with the remaining royals. I know they loved rheagar but duty is duty.

Their duties are to protect the royal family and follow the orders given by said family. So if Rhaegar commanded them to stay at the tower and protect Lyanna and her unborn no matter what - they would probably have done so, even without a legal marriage and long after Rhaegars death. Aerys was already dead when Ned arrived and the Kingsguard may have realised that Viserys would be dead before they could reach him. Dany wasn't even born, back then. Viserys and Rhaellas deaths would have made Lyannas child a potential heir to the Iron Throne. Even a bastard can inherit if the other heirs die.

[Jon Icefyre]

Honestly I could care less if Rhaegar and lyanna were married or not regardless if they were married Jon would still be the son of Rhaegar and even if he turns out to still be a bastard his claim is still better than anyone alive besides Dany(Aegon is a pretender), and that doesn't really matter either because a Queen(as great as she might be) still needs a King and that is a fact. With all that being said I believe if they weren't already married they would have been shortly Rhaegar told Jamie Lannister before he left for the trident that when he got back he would do something about his father and that he meant to do it earlier(but he got caught up with Lyanna cough cough). I believe when he got back he would have called a meeting of the council and kicked his father off the Iron throne and taken his place as king. Once Rhaegar became king he would have dissolved his marriage with Elia as kings have the power to do(as targaryen kings have done in the past and Renly wanted to do the same with Robert and Cersei so Robert could marry Margaery)and married Lyanna. Or if he was already married to Lyanna via the whole targaryen poly theory he would have acknowledged Lyanna as his one and only wife and dissolved the marriage with Elia. As far as the people in westeros acknowledging his marriage I don't think Rhaegar was worried about that in the slightest the people all loved and respected Rhaegar even Ned Stark. The only people that would really have a problem with this is Dorne but them alone is not a threat. All the rebels that Opposed would have been dead or defeated and the realm as a whole might very well see his marriage as an Alliance with the rebel side being that he would have married a Lady of Winterfell which was the heart of the rebellion if anything the marriage would have ensured peace with the north. This series has shown many examples of Marriages being used as a tool for brokering peace.

[Davos' fingertip]

what if, Jon Snow was the son of Lyanna Stark and Benjen Stark? They were both very close as siblings, and well, there must be something Benjen is guilty for, which is why he joined the Nights Watch. Oh, and Benjen/Jon are close too. Incest between starks?

[Jon Icefyre]

what if, Jon Snow was the son of Lyanna Stark and Benjen Stark? They were both very close as siblings, and well, there must be something Benjen is guilty for, which is why he joined the Nights Watch. Oh, and Benjen/Jon are close too. Incest between starks?

Not a chance in hell Benjen would have been too young and the timeline doesn't add up at all she would have still been with Rhaegar when she got pregnant. Plus if that were the case Rhaegar wouldn't have left the kings guard to protect Lyanna at the TOJ because he knew the rebel side would never hurt her (after all they thought they were rescuing her). No the only reason Rhaegar left the kings guard with Lyanna was to protect his son from the Usurper and his men.

[sumant30]

what if, Jon Snow was the son of Lyanna Stark and Benjen Stark? They were both very close as siblings, and well, there must be something Benjen is guilty for, which is why he joined the Nights Watch. Oh, and Benjen/Jon are close too. Incest between starks?

Well his brother brandon would have lopped his head off because incest was only there in taragaryen house because they are the ancient blood of valyria but not in westeros.

[sumant30]

I today was reading the chapter when arya was riding with BWB in that she meets lord beric's squire Ned Dayne the lord of starfall in that he mentions to her that wylla was jon snow's milk mother and also mentions ashara dayne whom he says ned stark loved very dearly but she threw himself from the tower because they could not be forever together so this can also be a possibility that Ned+Ashara = Jon, so if ned dayne is killed then jon can become a heir to starfall which is in dorne which is also fire so this can also be a possibility because R+L = J is too obvious.

[CBroome1979]

We don't know the answers 100%, but for those of you who believe Ned+Ashara=Jon (which it very well could be), I have one question...what happened to Lyanna's child? Why would Ned make her a promise if the child was stillborn or lost? I believe Ashara threw herself from the tower because she heard Arthur Dayne, her brother, had been killed by Eddard Stark, and the grief drove her to suicide. Could be wrong...

[CBroome1979]

To add to it, I think the Ned Dayne/Arya conversation was another tool by GRRM to give background and show that Wylla had a connection to Jon, but was likely not his mother.

[MtnLion]

Their duties are to protect the royal family and follow the orders given by said family. So if Rhaegar commanded them to stay at the tower and protect Lyanna and her unborn no matter what - they would probably have done so, even without a legal marriage and long after Rhaegars death. Aerys was already dead when Ned arrived and the Kingsguard may have realised that Viserys would be dead before they could reach him. Dany wasn't even born, back then. Viserys and Rhaellas deaths would have made Lyannas child a potential heir to the Iron Throne. Even a bastard can inherit if the other heirs die.

The kingsguard PRIMARY vow is to protect the king, at least one of their member must always be with the king (there are a few exceptions, when the king is in King's Landing). If Jon is a bastard, and Lyanna is just a bit on the side, the Kingsguard remaining (the three at the Tower of Joy) must send at least one of the three, if not all three, to the king, who Ned mentions as Prince Viserys, and mentions that no Kingsguard is with him. The three present at the Tower of Joy respond that they have sworn a vow and cannot leave, or allow Ned and company past. Therefore, and this is very clear indication that GRRM has given; aside from saying outright; Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and Lyanna and Rhaegar were married. (period)

ETA: While this may or may not be important to the storyline going forward, it is clear that GRRM wants us to know this. Jon does not know, and Bran may discover it. I think that Bran will reveal it to Jon, and it would only matter to Daenerys, since Jon would be ahead of her to the throne, just as Stannis is. In the end, what really matters is whether the threat of the White Walkers can be successfully dealt with.

[Franz95]

Assuming that R+L=J. We've all assumed that Howland is the only one who knows, but in some Ned chap in AGoT he thinks about how they found him in the tower, holding lyanna's corpse. I think someone else knows, and that's Wylla, who's still somewhere in Dorne. So someone might find her... who better than young "Aegon", who we know is doing some stuff in the South lately. I believe they might be twins, "Aegon" and Jon, with the actual Aegon dead in KL. What if he learns the truth before Jon does?

[MtnLion]

I believe they might be twins, "Aegon" and Jon, with the actual Aegon dead in KL. What if he learns the truth before Jon does?

I think that Aegon is too old to be Jon's twin, and the storyline wouldn't stand to be twisted into that position. What I do suspect, though, is that Aegon may indeed have been rescued by Varys and sent to Illyrio, but that Rhaegar had named Aerys' bastard from Ashara as Aegon, whilst Elia's stillborn daughter was treated as Ashara's bastard git. The girls had motive to switch babies, but could they have gotten away with it?