[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[SerMixalot]

and Ygritte just looks COLD

[Wyman_Manderly]

1) Roose never meets Jaime so that is out of the question... the Lannisters can send regards, but not Jaime personally. And that is sad mainly because this particular statement will make life a lot harder for Jaime when he meets UnCat.

2) Beheading Karstark was a bad decision in Rob's part, it was bound to cause uneasiness amongst the other bannermen specially since he pardoned his mother, not to mention that Rob lost the Karstark army at that point, made his already disarrayed army weaker. Omitting this particular incident takes out one of the biggest possible reasons why he lost support of some of his bannermen (i.e Karstarks). Roose and Frey were obviously gonna notice it. In the show, he takes the side of Karstark and gets mad at his mother. That kind of kills it..

3) I don't think Rob marrying Jeyne was just "happenstance" and her being a Lannister is purely coincidental. Jeyne might have been innocent, but her mother was not.. and like you mentioned, the book clearly spells it out. And if Jeyne was anything like Sansa, it would not have been too difficult to manipulate her (given the fact that her mother still makes her drink moon tea in the pretense of fertility potion). This was a dirty political trap, and Rob eagerly fell for it mainly because he was young. From Tyrion's experiences with his father, we know that Tywin had a particular expertise of exploiting romantic relationships (Tysha/Shae). Taking this out defeats that premise too, and we don't see Tywin's genius in plotting evil.. We only see him being scared of the "young wolf who is not scared and has not lost a battle".. Sad..

4) Catelyn may not have let Jaime go had Bran and Rickon been safe and "alive". In the show they don't even know that Theon has "killed" them. WTF

5) Rob lost Winterfell, lost Karstark support, lost Jaime Lannister, lost the other Lannister cousins, married a "non-frey" Lannister.... His cause was doomed at this point.. Roose saw that and realized that if he stayed with Rob, he would lose his head.. Instead if he swapped sides, he would become the warden of the north.

Mad as the Frey were, they were never known for taking the side of the losing team. Walder Frey would have swallowed his pride and clenched his teeth and accepted Rob's arrangements had he been in a better position, or if he had an heir that his remaining bannermen could rally around. He dared to do what he did was because he had other support.

The way I see it, had Rob been in a stronger position, neither would have dared to go against him. It took a combined effort from him, Catelyn and Theon to bring his demise. So I don't think just marrying "ANY" women would have resulted in the same conclusion.. Imagine him having Winterfell, Jaime and the Lannisters, marrying whatever girl he wanted to and then if he wanted to, he could have even beheaded Frey instead of Karstark and Roose probably would not have done a thing. Lannisters would still be the weaker side at this point with Stannis breathing down on their neck.

So taking all these other elements out kind of weakens the premise of the following very significant event.

[seikai]

For me, the best part about this episode is that Sansa was not in it. God!, I'm glad we got a break from Sansa.

Can't tell if serious :stillsick: ...

(You do realize that Sansa's screentime in this entire season must be all of 20 minutes, right?)

[Arrogant Bastard]

Can't tell if serious :stillsick: ... (You do realize that Sansa's screentime in this entire season must be all of 20 minutes, right?)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bronn and Littlefigner have had far more screentime this season than Sansa. Which is too bad, as I think the Sansa scenes this season have been some of the stronger ones.

I guess they're saving Dontos for next season, though I'm baffled as to why they included him in the season opener. Most people aren't going to remember him a whole season later.

[SerMixalot]

tis a shame as well cause the actress playing her is doing a great job IMNSHO

[seikai]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bronn and Littlefigner have had far more screentime this season than Sansa. Which is too bad, as I think the Sansa scenes this season have been some of the stronger ones. I guess they're saving Dontos for next season, though I'm baffled as to why they included him in the season opener. Most people aren't going to remember him a whole season later.

Agreed. They also had an opportunity to remind people who he was during the scene where Joffrey had Sansa beaten. They could've had Dontos trying to help her by throwing tomatoes or something at her (because I know that throwing watermelons at someone would probably be very painful). But instead, it's like they introduce him and then he's swept under the rug. What's that all about?

Oh no... it just occurred to me... what if they decided to have Shae fill in Dontos' role? They seem to like giving Shae important scenes. It's all fitting together now - Tyrion the Saint doesn't kill Shae! Shae is actually a spy of Little Finger! Little Finger kills Shae when she hands over Sansa for her money reward.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

My biggest nitpick is Ayra's scenes. Some of this was conveyed, but not enough, and I think they could have done better.

Looking at weasel soup in the book, and stopping before Jaqen glamors into a different face and gives her the coin, since that's where they stopped in this episode, but picking up where she escapes, since they included that:

We see Arya is still whispering the names at night. Jaqen's presence has given her courage. She doesn't want to feel powerless again.

Arya still loves sword fighting, and she remembers the lessons Syrio taught her. This continues her season 1 character development.

Arya still remembers her father, her family, and her home. We see this may always be a big part of her identity (remember that later, she can't part with Needle because of all it represents to her). This shows how much it meant to her when Jon Snow gave her Needle in season 1.

Jaqen is teaching her lessons, like Syrio. She is still learning.

Why was he so distraught? Why not just glamor and say Jaqen is dead? Maybe he can't, because this is the real him. He seemed to be comfortable to the point of enjoying his appearance ("handsome", taking time to wash and scent his "red and white and shiny" hair, "girls giggling to each other in admiration", long baths).

The word "friend" is mentioned six times during a brief exchange. Unless GRRM throws words around for no reason, this friendship matters to them.

Jaqen is showing Arya how it's done.

He's also showing her the consequences.

Will she stay a mouse?

She's calling on what she has learned from the men who "walked beside her" above. What she did with the guard is the sort of approach she saw Jaqen use.

She's not a mouse anymore.

Man, Arya's scenes in the book was so good, I get goosebumps again just reading this. To think none of this made the show. Instead we get 3 redundant scenes of Tywin noticing how clever Arya is, and never went anywhere.

[SerMixalot]

one thing the season has gotten right is Briennes cloyingly earnestness. well done

[Warden of the North121]

Osha sneaking around Winterfell in broad daylight was pretty stupid imo (the the most heinous inconsistency). Also, "Jaime Lannister" you nailed why the Robb/Jeyne relationship is so poignant in the books (even if it's not witnessed firsthand). Watching those scenes on TV would have been powerful. Arya really didn't go through much hardship after Tywin came to Harrenhal, kind of makes her character less unique (still love Maisie Williams though). Maybe they'll make up for this with the graphic Brotherhood chapters she has in SoS.

[Jolene Brown]

They got Tywin out of Harrenhall in time for King's Landing - the hell he's going to attack Robb. They will get Roose Bolton there by the time Jaime shows up without his hand, I think. That much faith I have in them. If only because that set is badass and they are going to keep on making the most of it. And I demand my hot tub scene!

[Warden of the North121]

They got Tywin out of Harrenhall in time for King's Landing - the hell he's going to attack Robb. They will get Roose Bolton there by the time Jaime shows up without his hand, I think. That much faith I have in them. If only because that set is badass and they are going to keep on making the most of it. And I demand my hot tub scene!

Didn't he initially set out to attack Robb but is intercepted by the Tyrell army and they book it to King's Landing? Obviously it isn't seen firsthand but I think it was mentioned. Granted, Tywin leaves Harrenhal much earlier in the book so this would seem very rushed in the show.

[Jolene Brown]

He gets held up by Edmure around Riverrun, which is why everyone is so bitchtastic to poor old Edmure in A Storm of Swords - Edmure was not supposed to attack him so directly or something? He was supposed to just let Tywin get through so he would be stuck out west? Instead, Edmure delayed him enough for him to get word that the Tyrells were willing to ally with the Lannisters and to book it to King's Landing on the barges or boats or whatever Mace Tyrell had waiting. Mace seemed a lot more like a badass before we ever met him.

I just love the part where they guilt poor Edmure into agreeing to marry a Frey to make up for Robb and he talks about how he had some other "penance" in mind - fighting the Kingslayer one on one, swimming the Sunset sea with his legs tied, seven years of penance as a begging brother. Like hey, dudes, maybe if you had actually TOLD HIM about your brilliant plan he would have had the info he needed to do what you wanted.

[Baelor Blackfyre]

I thought the episode was pretty good TV, but unfortunately for this particular show, it has a dual role. It has to be good TV and be a good adaptation to the books. Emphasis on the word good. While I enjoy the show greatly and will no doubt continue watching (if were talking about this on a Westeros forum then were pretty serious fans, and love anything to do with ASoIaF, so I don't know why people make snide comments saying, "if you hate it then stop watching it") I do find myself (like everyone else) frustrated at the changes that all in all, seem to have absolutely no purpose. (changing Jeyne into Talisa)

And to answer the question if she is really Talisa or if she is lying still. I saw Ran comment on another forum stating that she IS Talisa. and that she was coming BACK from the Crag in this episode. So according to him, she is Talisa, for real. Which in my opinion totally blows, didn't see the need to change her character.

I think the ultimate problem with this season is that after watching last season, we were all convinced that they have the ability to adapt ASoIaF into a TV show well, and keep it very faithful to the book. I think they would have had an even harder time last season because they had to start from scratch, and not just introduce a few new characters and locations like this season, but establish a whole universe within 10 episodes. And to all of our surprise, they did it! and it was awesome.

Just think about last season and how many changes were made, barely any at all. But I can't even keep tab on all the changes that have been made this season. I remember them talking about how Drogo killing Mago (i think?) last season would cause a butterfly effect. And that was one tiny little change. What the hell are they going to do now? What kind of effect will all these changes cause? I may be jumping the gun early, and if so, apologies.

And one last thing I thought of, look how much they fiddled with Qarth in order to made it more "exciting" (cause apparently it was a snooze-fest to a bunch of people, which I don't agree with at all) and how much they tweaked the culture to make it "easy to follow" (didn't find it that hard to follow personally, but I can see it). so my question is: what the hell are they going to do when Dany gets to Meereen? I can only imagine...

[Baelor Blackfyre]

Final random positive note: Hot Pie is back!

ha I thought the same thing! Gotta love Hot Pie man! the actor they picked to play him just freaking nails it!

[hiddenaway]

Coming in Episode 10 - title "Valar Morgulis"

[Rickon is FIERCE]

BTW I had to giggle with Dany looking through the fence. Exactly what was she looking for? Her dragons? hmmm wonder if they are on the other side of this clapboard fence?

HAHAHA LMFAO!!!!

[The Knight of Flours]

I haven't nitpicked really at all this season. I've been waiting to see how the changes pan out and was prepared to wait until the end of this season - if not the next one - to comment on a few things - ie Arya/Tywin, Jeynelisa/Robb, Cat/Jaimie in particular...

But I CAN NOT BELIEVE that D&D omitted the news about Rob/Cat receiving news about Bran & Rickon. It really would have helped the audience understand that it was the 'straw that broke Lady Stark's back' in terms of releasing Jamie (and also when Robb & Talisa of Volantis got it on).

EVEN if it was just Cat (when making excuses to Robb) telling him a raven had arrived with the news while he was away courting... The cheesy Volantis drowning story is....well..just cheesy.

I could have understood a Robb (possibly with injuries from a skirmish en route from the Crag) being tended by Florence Nightingale, doubting his ability as a King. Winterfell has fallen, his closest friend has betrayed him and murdered his little brothers, his army and lords losing faith, his greatest enemy has escaped, aided by Robb's treasonous mother *sob*....and our gorgeous and stark-struck Nurse initiates life-saving TLC and immediate physical therapy to prove his manhood...

If I was GRRM, this would be one of the things where I would have said 'For once I have to insist, the news MUST arrive before either of these things can occur. Only a minor few changes required and it could help the episode have a focus on dead Bran & Rickon before the final reveal'.

I hope that's the last nitpick I have and will be interesting to see George's script next episode and if these characters will be seen. I'd be interested in hearing a few lines of his for Jeynisa.. :drool:

[valyrian_steel]

Ages

On the show during the first season, Cersei and Robert have a heart to heart and Cersei mentions they have been married for 17 years. Cersei also mentioned twice that she lost (or aborted) her first child. This means Joffrey is likely 16 or younger. Robb was born during the war, Jon near the end of the war and Dany right after the war making them in the 17 to 18 range. Also, Joffrey has a regent (first Ned for 10 seconds then his mother) . It's hard to believe a 17 yo would need a regent yet Jaimie was knighted at 16 (previous episode)

[Jolene Brown]

Ugh, Jaime knighted at 16. Didn't jaime JOIN the bloody Kingsguard at 15? For fuck's sake.

[madman2711]

- Shae reads a book waiting for Tyrion

- Bronn can read

- Wildings have winter cammo gear and fancy stainless steel futuristic knives

- nobody can see Osha lurking during daytime inside Winterfell - she has an invisibility cloack/ spell

- Ros after the beating/ torture has a mild mornig headache /hangover face like it was a BDSM party gone wrong

- Tulisa CPR slave was like WTF probably she can do a triple bypass on Karstark after his heartattack having heard of his son death and the Kingslayers escape

- Robb going down with the ER chick - fuck the frey bridge and my army i need to get laid tonight with this Volantis (yet not Blonde/silver haired) medicine wooman that had a brother with a near death experience

ill add up more soon