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How would you rate episode 210?

How would you rate episode 210?  

930 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      18
    • 2
      14
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      32
    • 5
      49
    • 6
      72
    • 7
      115
    • 8
      199
    • 9
      238
    • 10
      165


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The butterfly effect is getting stronger and stronger. The total change of Hotu will cause big ripples throughout the show, as the visions become such a strong part of Dany in the books to follow. Also as propechies for the readers to digest considering the future of Westeros. I guess this all somehow got too complicated for the writers. Sadly. It seems they don`t want the readers guessing, or being deceived, as GRRM does. My guess is the writers don`t know all the story, they just get their chapters to adapt, without considering the Butterfly effect. Something which is dangerous for a work like ASOIAF, where almost everything is connected.

So needless to say, I`m a very eager to see how they will handle RW. Worst case it will be no suprise-no shock at all..

I guess us readers just have to continue to work on separating the show from the books, cause it CAN only get more different as the road winds. And be grateful for the fact that the books have made it to the screen at all.

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The last 2 episodes made up for more the whole season for me. Happy with it (except the rush sacking of Winterfell).

Was in tears with Luwin in the Gods wood with the boys. Exactly as I imagined it, except for his relief that they were alive.

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OK so my opinion is simply split here, as for the entire season.

Looking from a point of non-reader (which is ofcourse extremley hard) i belive this was an awesome season. Easily a 9/10, and it's a 9 just beacuse many things had to be rushed and could leave some of the viewers puzzled.

Looking froma a point of reader, i must say i feel a bit dissapointed. In general many things are done right and according to the book, but there are so many things that were simply strange and didnt' agree with me. Just looking at the last episode, Rob's wedding, Doreah sleeping with Xaro, Shae and Tyrion's relationship... But 2 that botherd me the most were Stannis and HoTU.

Both of those sceans were great on their on, but they felt simply wrong compared to the book.

Though we never see Stanis's reaction in the aftermath of the battle in the book, i feel what they did here was completly out of character. Stannis getting all enraged and choking Mel, it felt so completly wrong and in general through the whole season his character seems so much different from the "teeth grinding" book Stannis.

And HoTU was done so cause of budget and so on, and so on, but by God if u already have Danny at the wall show the blue flower. It doesn't reveal anything special, but it is such a great moment in the book when you relize what it symbolizes.

All in all, standolne season and this episode get 9/10 from me. As for how I rate it as a true adaptaion, something like 6/10, but maybe I'm wanting too much from this, cause I love the books so much.

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i gave it a 9

so many opinions for the good and so many for the bad,

i guess the TV efforts have an impossible job to please all,

we should all count our selves lucky that we have this TV adaptation,

i've read the books, i've watched the shows, what am i to do til season 3,

can't wait - thats all there is to say

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I gave it a 7 but to be honest, my biggest issues with this series has nothing to do with the changes (though I do miss all the myth/history but I assume at some point they'll get to it) but the storytelling structure. The best episodes have been the ones where it's tightly focused, where only 2-3 stories are being told instead of 5 minutes spent on each story. I want more of those. Every episode that features all the stories is comparably weaker to the stories that are tighter (episode 3 and 9 are great examples of this).

If that doesn't change, I will continue to be underwhelmed for part of the season.

I agree. The problem is there are just so many subplots that INTERSECT. It's not like Mad Men where we could have an entire episode about Peggy, then one about Don, because there's not much going on plotwise; Game of Thrones has so much plot happening that if we spent an entire episode with Tyrion, we would miss crucial Cersei scenes or whatever, and if we had an entire Jon episode, we would be behind on everything else.

But man, if they could make it work, I would LOVE to see an episode that just took like 2 or 3 characters and worked through heaps of their stuff, then did the same for different characters the next episode, and so on and so on. Like if, this season, they had had an episode that was like 40% Stannis, 40% Theon, 20% Tyrion, then did 40% Robb, 40% Dany, 20% Tyrion next week or whatever, that could have worked better because there would be more breathing space for character development.

I'm no showrunner or TV writer though, so I don't know how it all works. But I hope next season they tackle the issue of pacing and structure a lot more, because it could possibly become a big problem if they keep going how they're going.

Anyways, I'd give this episode an 8. It's a television show based off a book series, not an identical adaptation of a book series. When TV Theon does something, I'm thinking of TV Theon, not book Theon, in my mind the two stories are as divorced as I can make them. I enjoy the books and the show much better that way. I much preferred Jon VS Qhorin in the show, as it added some ambiguity, which makes Jon more interesting (I think it took much later for Jon to get interesting in the books for this very reason, he was too good all of the time, not enough moral ambiguity). Did Jon kill him because he understood he Qhorin wanted him to infilitrate the wildings, or did he do it because he was angry at Qhorin, or was it both? That sort of stuff is great.

House of the Undying was alright. Loved the Throne/Wall/Drogo visions, the ending with Pyat fell a bit flat, but I liked the ending of this arc. Dany has learned to place her dragons above all else, ambition and family, and has sort of accepted being a Dothraki conquerer type leader, by stealing the gold. Also, learnt not to trust so easily. Not the same lessons she learnt in ACOK mainly, but still good ones that made character sense.

Theon's ending confused me as a book-reader, but thinking from a show-watcher perspective it makes more sense, although it was still pretty clumsy. I think the idea is to trick the viewers into thinking the Ironborn did it as they left Winterfell, just like the rest of Westeros thinks, then next season, to create a Season 3 plotline for Alfie Allen, explore that it was actually Ramsay and so on. Revealing it was Ramsay right away would probably get viewers a bit apprehensive about Roose (yes, Ramsay may have acted against his father's orders, but that wouldn't be everyone's first thought), which makes the Red Wedding less surprising, and I bet Season 3 is all about building to the Red Wedding.

Season 2 was stronger than Season 1 in my eyes because it tried to tie the episodes together thematically, rather than just break a season long plot into 10 episodes like I felt season 1 did.

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Depends what context you're rating it by

If you're rating it as an adaptation of the book, it was very different (But you should have realised by this point it wasn't going to be word for word the same)

If you're rating it as a piece of television though it was fantastic, I can't think of a better TV series than this at the minute.

I gave it a 9, I enjoying it a lot but there would have been one or two things I would have maybe changed

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I give it 4, it was rather boring and there were a couple of scenes that offended me as a viewer.

- Robb's 'I laowv her' speech and his marriage (minus 1)

- Ros being finally confirmed as being an integral part of the game of thrones, possibly responsible for many upcoming events such as Joff's murder, smuggling Tyrion, partaking in the Red Wedding and finally uniting Dany and the Houses to fight the White Walkers /sarcasm

- Theon's actor out-hamming the hammiest of actors during his speech

- HotU sequence (the lack of visions wasn't bad, it was just how Dany escaped)

- Stannis and Melisandre and how he would betray everything he stands for (Book Stannis is unyielding in his principles)

All in all, it felt like a tired effort of writers who just wanted to wrap this season. I'd consider Blackwater to be the finale, a magnificent feast followed by a shallow dessert dish.

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I give it 4, it was rather boring and there were a couple of scenes that offended me as a viewer.

- Robb's 'I laowv her' speech and his marriage (minus 1)

- Ros being finally confirmed as being an integral part of the game of thrones, possibly responsible for many upcoming events such as Joff's murder, smuggling Tyrion, partaking in the Red Wedding and finally uniting Dany and the Houses to fight the White Walkers /sarcasm

- Theon's actor out-hamming the hammiest of actors during his speech

- HotU sequence (the lack of visions wasn't bad, it was just how Dany escaped)

- Stannis and Melisandre and how he would betray everything he stands for (Book Stannis is unyielding in his principles)

All in all, it felt like a tired effort of writers who just wanted to wrap this season. I'd consider Blackwater to be the finale, a magnificent feast followed by a shallow dessert dish.

You don't know that for sure though, I thought she's just going to spy on people for Varys just to show whats happening to her rather than giving her no ending for the series.

My worry was that it was always going to be a bit anti-climactic after Blackwater, it wasn't an exciting episode by any means but still interesting I thought

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While I enjoy this show, it is clear comparing Blackwater to episodes that D&D have written that GRRM makes these guys look like amateurs. That being said, this show is still fantastic and would be flawless in my opinion if they found some more creative and thorough writers if they're really adamant making changes from the source material.

Edited by Warden of the North121

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The problem is there are just so many subplots that INTERSECT. It's not like Mad Men where we could have an entire episode about Peggy, then one about Don, because there's not much going on plotwise; Game of Thrones has so much plot happening that if we spent an entire episode with Tyrion, we would miss crucial Cersei scenes or whatever, and if we had an entire Jon episode, we would be behind on everything else.

NOT TRUE.

The problem is the writers who are nowhere close to the guys at Mad Men. We could get a taste of how differently it could be run with "Blackwater" which almost felt like Tyrion/Cersei special. The novels are narrated through point of view storytelling. There is nothing that stops the writers from doing anything...save their lack of skill and talent.

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I had trouble getting in here for quite a while, so interesting to read the complaints in the first few pages.

As an adaptation, I am very happy with the show and realise they can't show every detail from the book and - due to the medium - have to change some things. This will happen in future seasons as D&D have to stretch some stories - eg Theon - over the next few series (as with Robb and Jamie this season).

The fate of WInterfell is bound to be explored early in S3 and give the TV audience an understanding of the shift in power up North. Plenty of other characters (Shirene, the Reeds, the Bastard) being held over.

As a book reader, I probably enjoyed the series more than some of my non-reading friends who thought some episodes were a bit slow. I'm glad that S3/4 is likely to spark them up again.

My only criticism is that the 'three horns' cliffhanger could have been even more effective with a 'less is more' approach. A few things during the series I didn't like but I'll wait to see how these storylines play out next year before making my mind up.

9/10 for this necessary epilogue to S2.

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Had to give it a 9, I thought it was great but not as good as Blackwater! Although many people have valid gripes with the HOTU scenes (I myself would have liked to see more but understand that's not going to happen) ...I liked it and found it rather emotional. Loved seeing Dany in the Throne room! And lets face it...they've already messed her storyline up a great deal this season...I was actually expecting less from this part of the story. Was hoping to see Rhaegar though!

The Jon scene I wish they had done differently. As they've done it I think many non-book readers are left wondering what the heck Jon is doing? If they had taken just a few moments and lines of dialouge more they truly could have explained it and given Qhuorin Halfhand a more honorable death which truly showed the sacrifice made for the Nights Watch...the scene would have ended up better with a more emotional impact. And where the heck is Ghost?

Yes overall a 9 because unlike other episodes this season this one left me wanting more. I truly liked it a lot! And I must say the White Walkers looked bad ass this time!

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I rated 9.

I liked the episode and thought it was well done. I read the books (several times) and love them. However, I always believe that a book and its visualization/adaptation are two different things. When you visualize a book story, you don't religiously copy it to the screen or you just can't do it. I would like to watch the show made by those who whine and complain. It must be soooh boring!

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Long time lurker, first time poster.

I gave it an 8, and that is rating it purely as a television show. As an adaptation, as many of you have said, it failed in this episode. Particuarly in contrast to the magnificently written Blackwater (Credit to George obviously) it looked even worse.

Although I am touching on things everyone else has discussed, I'd also like to speak on a few points that bothered me throughout the season. Many characters were changed or made to do things that hurt them for the audience for a few cheap thrills and crowd pleasing moments. Jaime killing Alton like some common psychopath (just for a violent scene), Robb marrying not for honor but for being horny and "in love" (for petty romance and pleasing the masses), Stannis sleeping with Mel immediately just from a lame promise of a son (came off as so rushed, especially with the audience only having seen them for one episode since then). It just screamed amateur writing to me, no care taken with such deep characters.

That is my main point, the rushing of this season. So many scenes, so many episodes, storylines, character arcs, either rushed or abandoned. It made it seem as if Benoiff and Weiss only wanted to get COK out of the way so they could move on to the epic third book (and of course the RW). Many non-book readers that I spoke to felt as if nothing had happened this season, because so many points were glossed over. The importance of the Freys to Robb (his betrayal is more than the loss of a damn bridge), Arya not developing at all, instead being babied by Tywin (Also lost ALOT of possible Roose characterization by omitting his role at Harrenhal, which is really a damn shame because he is a fantastic character), and I will not even get into how bungled and rushed Jon's storyline felt. Dany's was made to be action packed, but felt absolutely tacky and silly for most of the season. Tyrion and Theon were handled well, although as many have mentioned Theon's final scene was unbelievably disappointing.

I hope I am wrong, but the more I look at the resume of Benoiff and Weiss, the less faith I develop in this series doing justice as it progresses. Every great television show seems to have a season in which it stutters early on though, so there is hope. It is such a shame that Clash of Kings, a great second book in Martin's series, was given a bit of a half-assed treatment by these two.

All that being said, I am still looking forward to the third season. Much of that will be to witness what will live up to be the most shocking scene in television history (we all know what), at least in my opinion. Beyond that, Jaime and Brienne will feature heavily, and they are both doing a fantastic job (Nikolaj is always capivating on the screen). SOS gives them magnificent material, and they damn well better try to do it justice. Here is hoping for next season coming on strong.

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I had to give it a 10 even though it was not as amazing as the Blackwater. It was still amazing though. I am cool with the changes with Dany. Next season should be able to follow her story more closely since she actually has stuff to do now. A lot of stuff. Not sure how they can budget the sack of three cities.

The guy playing Theon (Alfie?) should be up for an Emmy for his stellar acting this season. Theon's changes have been all for th ebetter IMO. I love him. Too bad he will never be the same again. He he heee. I assume his men were killed or captured when they left Winterfell. Or they gave Ramsay Bolton Theon in exchange for their lives.

Loved Sansa's scene too with the giggle/smirk.

My wife and I got teary eyed with Tyrion and Shae's scene, Maester Luwin's scene, and even Khal Drogo's scene. It was stellar acting. They BETTER follow the Shae and tyrion story though. They better.

I love the kid playing Rickon. They could actually keep him in the show for a lot longer and still be able to have his story turn out like it currently is in ADWD. Wish I heard more "Hodor" though. And a wheelbarrow, Hodor? HODOR!!!!

Loved Dany's dragon scenes although I wish she screamed her command instead of whispering it. Still fun and awesome. I am okay with the House of the Undying. Nobody who just watches the show would understand "His is the song of ice and fire" or the other trippy aspects. Wish Quaith was in it ot was there to advise her before entering. Still cool.

Robb...foolish young wolf.

Jaime and Brienne are great together. Love them.

Arya's final 2 episodes were kind of weak but she should be even more fun next season. The guy playing Jaqen kicked ass.

Hope the original Mountain comes back.

Snow vs. Halfhand was a bit rushed but that is okay. Next season will kick ass with him as well.

And the ending was FREAKING AMAZING!!! I loved it. I assume Sam lives because he has the Dragon Glass and they don't go near him. But the Others look so awesome. I was worried they were going to look like an alien or Predator from what we were shown in Season 1. This was just all out awesome!!

It is not right that we get just 10 episodes and then have to wait a ful year now. Oy. My mom and dad are so pissed (never read the books).

Bravo to all involved with the show.

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I gave it an 8.

As was the case the whole seson it was great episode as TV show and terrible as adaptation.

What the frak happened with the visions in House of Undying ? That is something that should not be omitted.

Rob story was terrible. Pitiful ending that his character did not deserve.

On the other hand, Theon part , also Jamie and Brienneand Tyrion and everything in Kings landing wre quite good.

John Snow was so-and-so.

Al in all, good ending to a great TV show but not-so-good book adaptation.

Having just 10 episodes for the 2nd book was very bad. If they do the same for he 3rd it will be criminal.

P.S. All the actors were great. However I stand to my opinion that Melisandre was poorly cast for the part and Asha is umentionable.

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We are not being purists. I personally prefer the television adpatation to contain surprises of its own. The problem is that they're taking too many liberties which are simultaneously stupid, unsatisfying and illogical. The "three blasts" scene illustrates this perfectly. To build the suspense like Martin does in the novels, all they would have needed was about ten or fifteen extra seconds. This change was unforgivable. One of the most awesome sequences in the entire series, ruined.

If they're going to waste about a third of viewing time with unnecessary, gossipy crap, cynically packed in to boost ratings, then they have no business saying there's not enough time.

Edited by BinkyBonks

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it's hard for me to even critique the show any more... I wonder how much I'd enjoy season 2 without having read the books... I find myself now just waiting for certain scenes (no arya killing guard?? agh!!!) or comparing scenes or critiquing scenes as they contrast the book... everything seems inferior to the book and it's pointless to sound like a broken record in that regard...

I am still looking forward to season 3, however, and am hoping D&D return to their season one form...

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I agree. The problem is there are just so many subplots that INTERSECT. It's not like Mad Men where we could have an entire episode about Peggy, then one about Don, because there's not much going on plotwise; Game of Thrones has so much plot happening that if we spent an entire episode with Tyrion, we would miss crucial Cersei scenes or whatever, and if we had an entire Jon episode, we would be behind on everything else.

But man, if they could make it work, I would LOVE to see an episode that just took like 2 or 3 characters and worked through heaps of their stuff, then did the same for different characters the next episode, and so on and so on. Like if, this season, they had had an episode that was like 40% Stannis, 40% Theon, 20% Tyrion, then did 40% Robb, 40% Dany, 20% Tyrion next week or whatever, that could have worked better because there would be more breathing space for character development.

I'm no showrunner or TV writer though, so I don't know how it all works. But I hope next season they tackle the issue of pacing and structure a lot more, because it could possibly become a big problem if they keep going how they're going.

There is no reason they couldn't have structured the season and broke the episodes in such a fashion. In fact, I think by trying to drive all of Clash (and some parts of SOS) into 10 episodes they brought the pacing and structural problems onto themselves.

The other issue I see with how they are breaking stories is with regards to great character development (other than Theon and Tyrion). It's not rich, often superficial or very one note.

Let's see Robb becoming a King and leader of men - making his subsequent fall next season only much more poignant and heartbreaking. Not simply focusing on the romance with Talisa.

Find the meat of Jon's story (i.e. building a relationship with Qhorin Halfhand) so that there is a real tragedy at the fact he needs to slay Qhorin in the finale. Danny's tale was always problematic in Clash, but it is possible to leverage and change the source material to create a dramatic tale - paced appropriately throughout the season. Each episode could not have alternated between a Danny and Jon storyline.

At the end of the day, I just don't think this writing team is very good. They have written some wonderful moments, but too often they missed these amazing storytelling opportunities and instead we get off the shelf romance (Robb/Talisa), or clever dialouge scenes but lacking any payoff (Tyrion/Arya, Ygritte/Jon).

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That was an 8. Decent episode, and very enjoyable overall.

To focus on the positive, I thoroughly enjoyed the conclusion to Theon's story (I'm waiting for next season to learn more about Winterfell), everything King's Landing (Margery!!! Sansa!!! Tyrion!!!), the bittersweet farewell to the fabulous Jaqen, and even the little bit of Jon & Ygritte (tho Jon's story overall was not handled the best imo).

As a lover of the books, there are a lot details I can whine about, but on a second watch, I've made my peace with most of it (not including the mess that was Robb/Talisa, which I'll just try not to talk or think about just yet). Sure, there's always gonna be disappointments with adaptations and changes, but I still think this series is still doing a fine job overall (oh it can be A LOT worse). Afterall, it was the TV show that first introduced me to these fantastic books and characters, so as long as it still entertains, I'm always coming back for more. There's so much to look forward to next season! And even if they screw up (though I really hope they don't), I can always just go back to my books.

Hello, Long hiatus... *off to read house of the undying*

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