From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa III

[Kittykatknits]

Interesting. Sansa only has three chapters in AFFC, so it makes sense that she cannot harp on about Jon, but she still mentions him. And Jon mentions Sansa four times. It does create a link in readers' minds between them. Not as strong as the Jon/Arya one, but perhaps Jon despite being a "bastard" will be sort of the anchor the remaining Starks all gravitate towards? When he gets Rhollored, that is. Arya and Sansa both think of him, Bran knows Jon is alive and Rickon with Davos help is probably heading his way too.

I always figured Sansa's road to the North would go through the Riverlands, but looking at where it's pointing, thematically, and maybe if we consider that Sansa is doing a bit of the same journey as Cat did in AGOT (albeit not exactly, but some of the elements introduced in Cat AGOT is reintroduced in Sansa ASOS/AFFC), then she will probably go by boat to White Harbour and onwards up the White Knife perhaps? (Albeit if she is doing the inverse, starting at the Eyrie and moving downwards, she will end up at the Inn of the Crossroads, then KL, then Winterfell). I always did sort of figure that Sansa would take up Cat's role as politician/negotiator eventually.

Well jon was the one that all the others could find. While they have been wandering around he's been the fixed arm of the compasses on the Wall.

If and when the Stark kids decide to return home, as events are now, it makes more sense to go to Jon at the wall then it would to return to WF. It's what I would do at least. I think he would do whatever he could to help his siblings, even Sansa. :)

Lyanna Stark - It's quite possible. I'm convinced that their will be reunions amongst the Stark siblings at the end, whether that is at the wall, WF, or somewhere else. Well, my favorite pet theory is that the story will end where it began - at Winterfell but that's something else altogether. He's the only "Stark" for others to gravitate towards so it's a natural fit. As for how she gets home again, it may be possible that she sails for Eastwatch too. I don't have access to a book right now to see a map so I can't say if that makes sense or not, maybe not.

[Grail King]

Gull town to East Watch, or up the white knife to WF

[Tagganaro]

Well to add to this great discussion, I've always felt that Jon and Sansa would be most involved in rebuilding Winterfell/Stark power since really AFFC. Sansa is obviously in a "queenly" position and for once Littlefinger is overplaying his hand because he simply can't help himself around Catelyn/Sansa. I'd have to imagine as a result LF's going to get himself killed because as has been discussed here, he's incapable or unwilling to properly guage Sansa's emotions.

Likewise, assuming Jon is healthy in some way, he should have some Wildlings/NW members loyal to him. So....Sansa brings the diplomacy, Jon brings the swords. Sounds good to me haha.

But yeah, I have found it interesting how they seem to be thinking more about each other lately. I also absolutely LOVE the whole thing where Sansa thinks to herself that she wishes some hero would cut off Janos Slynt's head in AGOT if I remember correctly and of course Jon has just obliged that. I think in many ways Jon and Sansa are permanently linked by their old-school notions of chilvalry and honor. Here's hoping we get to see some interaction on that front.

[Queen of Spades]

I'm still waiting for my favourite Sansa chapter... it will be the chapter when she meets the Hound again. :wub:

[brashcandy]

Gull town to East Watch, or up the white knife to WF

Brief detour at the Quiet Isle :P

[Kittykatknits]

I'm still waiting for my favourite Sansa chapter... it will be the chapter when she meets the Hound again. :wub:

That will be my new favorite chapter. I'd love to have the last line of Sansa's final chapter in WoW be something like: "Sansa felt a hand reach out of the darkness to suddenly grasp her wrist, quickly followed by the harsh, rasping sound of a whispered "little bird...".

ETA: Hmmm, I'd be OK if this was in the first chapter too.

[Grail King]

Brief detour at the Quiet Isle :P

Well for the life of SR and Sansa I went with the shortest land route, Old Anchor>>> Ironoaks>>>>>Runestone (Bronze Yohnn Royce ) >>>>>>Gulls Town.

Feel for my SS friends but safety first love later or there may be neither.

[Valkyrja]

I wish I could, but I really can't pick a favourite Sansa chapter....yet. Each part of her story is just so heightened and informed by what comes before and after, that I feel like I need to see how the rest of her story plays out in the next books before I can truly say for sure. That said, I have definite favourite moments: her interactions with Sandor Clegane, praying in the Godswood, calming the ladies in Maegor's Keep, the Blackwater scene (obviously), her moment of defiance against the Lannisters by refusing to kneel, Winterfell snow castle scene (though not the LF part :ack:), her various moments of 'awakening' throughout the end of ASoS and AFFC (including her dream of nekkid Sandor...yes I am a very naughty girl :leer:) , and......best of all, the final scene in AFFC when she is so strong and 'bastard brave', and comes down the mountain with SR, and she hears the winds howling and thinks of wolves. :)

[brashcandy]

Well for the life of SR and Sansa I went with the shortest land route, Old Anchor>>> Ironoaks>>>>>Runestone (Bronze Yohnn Royce ) >>>>>>Gulls Town.

Feel for my SS friends but safety first love later or there may be neither.

Ah, but the EB is a known healer. Stopping at the QI would be a wise decision.

[brashcandy]

@Valkyrja :whip:

:)

[Kittykatknits]

Ah, but the EB is a known healer. Stopping at the QI would be a wise decision.

How else can she save her cousin and adopt a new pet dog?

[Dana]

What annoys me about Sansa is her stubborn reluctance to accept the world the way it is. Everyone with a "ser" in front of their name is gallant, until they show her otherwise. Life is supposed to be like the songs. In DwD, she was still mooning over that! (Life not being like the songs.) I think a change will finally come since the snooty highborn people of the Vale will treat her like a bastard (and Littlefinger's bastard, at that). Maybe then she'll get some sense.

[brashcandy]

What annoys me about Sansa is her stubborn reluctance to accept the world the way it is. Everyone with a "ser" in front of their name is gallant, until they show her otherwise. Life is supposed to be like the songs. In DwD, she was still mooning over that! (Life not being like the songs.) I think a change will finally come since the snooty highborn people of the Vale will treat her like a bastard (and Littlefinger's bastard, at that). Maybe then she'll get some sense.

1. Are you sure you read past AGOT? She's developed a great deal from the naive girl we saw in the early part of that book.

2. Since she wasn't in ADWD, I'll assume you're talking about AFFC. However, she's definitely not assuming that once you have a ser before your name that you're gallant at that point either. See her thoughts on Lyn Corbray for example.

3. Might I recommend the rereading threads so you'll get a better grasp on Sansa's character? You'll find the links to them in the OP of this thread.

[brashcandy]

Oh and neither is she thinking about the songs either. You'll remember (if indeed you did read it) that her very first chp of AFFC opens with her talking about how she's no longer the simple girl she once was longing for a singer to come play for her. After the experience of KL, Lysa's attempt to murder her, and Marillion's framing for the crime, she's well and truly lost her innocence concerning songs.

[Valkyrja]

@Valkyrja :whip:

:)

I completely deserved that one. ;)

[Caro99]

hey girls, i was watching elio & linda's first half of their S2 recap, and as they were talking about the whole robb/jeyne/talisa issue and the way the show portryed it, elio quickly commented something like sansa and the hound's romance is the one he'd maybe called the most potential sacrifing romance in the books, not robb's with jeyne/talisa. it was a really quick comment and he only explained it a little bit further by saying how it is such a beauty and the beast theme sort of story, so i was wondering if this was just a random comment or maybe he has some info about what may happen later on, with sandor sacrificing himself for sansa or sansa sacrificing their "love" for her people... sorry if i'm just speculating too much, just wanted to know what you all thought about it.

here's the link and they bring this up around 31:35

http://www.youtube.com/Balerion300

[brashcandy]

Hey Caro, thanks for the link! :) I haven't watched it yet, but just based on your comment, I'd say that it's a fairly standard interpretation for what will happen in the relationship between Sansan. Given that "the Hound" has died, however, I still believe that this could be the one relationship Martin allows to prosper.

[Silmarien]

Oh and neither is she thinking about the songs either. You'll remember (if indeed you did read it) that her very first chp of AFFC opens with her talking about how she's no longer the simple girl she once was longing for a singer to come play for her. After the experience of KL, Lysa's attempt to murder her, and Marillion's framing for the crime, she's well and truly lost her innocence concerning songs.

Also Marillion trying to rape her probably didn't add to her ability to trust singers....

[Caro99]

Hey Caro, thanks for the link! :) I haven't watched it yet, but just based on your comment, I'd say that it's a fairly standard interpretation for what will happen in the relationship between Sansan. Given that "the Hound" has died, however, I still believe that this could be the one relationship Martin allows to prosper.

fingers crossed that it was indeed just some random comment, and i'm with you on hoping george will allow this relationship to prosper, since the potential has been there forever. thanks for the reply :)

[Elba the Intoner]

Well to add to this great discussion, I've always felt that Jon and Sansa would be most involved in rebuilding Winterfell/Stark power since really AFFC. Sansa is obviously in a "queenly" position and for once Littlefinger is overplaying his hand because he simply can't help himself around Catelyn/Sansa. I'd have to imagine as a result LF's going to get himself killed because as has been discussed here, he's incapable or unwilling to properly guage Sansa's emotions.

Likewise, assuming Jon is healthy in some way, he should have some Wildlings/NW members loyal to him. So....Sansa brings the diplomacy, Jon brings the swords. Sounds good to me haha.

But yeah, I have found it interesting how they seem to be thinking more about each other lately. I also absolutely LOVE the whole thing where Sansa thinks to herself that she wishes some hero would cut off Janos Slynt's head in AGOT if I remember correctly and of course Jon has just obliged that. I think in many ways Jon and Sansa are permanently linked by their old-school notions of chilvalry and honor. Here's hoping we get to see some interaction on that front.

You know, this is a great point and one I hadn't really given that much thought to before now. Sansa and Jon are very much alike in many ways. Their personalities are quite similar I think, and it seems their stories are on parallel as well. They are the oldest male and female Stark children, they have both been primed for leadership, and there does seem to be a growing effort throughout each book to link the two of them (like having them think of each other at similar points in time, Sansa in Feast and Jon in Dance, and having Jon turn out to be the hero Sansa was wishing for in AGOT). Maybe some focus on the similarities and parallels with Jon and Sansa are in order.