Am I the only one who thinks Aegon stole Danys thunder?

[total1402]

so true i never got why people say she had it "hard" yea it was difficult for her, but like aegon everything was given to dany. Barristan, the unsullied, hell even aegon and the GC were to be given to her if it was for tyrion so i don't see her has suffering much.

Not IMO how I see it

-Getting the Unsullied was her plan entirely and doing so via a slave rebellion withot losing a dragon as well.

-She wins Barristans respect and he admits who he is and promises to serve her. If she had been a madqueen then he would have left.

-She manages to bea the Yunkai and is quite clever in splitting their army to pieces. She only loses a handful of men because of this.

-Same with Mereen. Though barristans knowledge of the tunnels is crucial she does a lot with using the ships for siege weapons and part of being a leader is taking good advice over bad.

-Aegon and the GC were not to be "given to her" they were to pick her up and hence why when they realsied they would end up fighting her war they stalled and eventually decided not to go. They wanted to put a collar around her neck.

-Her plan to use blood magic to get the Dragons. Yes you could argue destiny but nobody told her how to do that and she did it herself

-She tames a dragon that just butchered twenty armed men by herself.

-Qunetyn-Is given him and could have used Martel but is put into an impossible situation because she does not want the slaves of Mereen to die.

Jorah-Is given him but is later forced to face his earlier betrayel and can't forgive him because he won't accept that he did anything wrong. Considering that she saw him as a kind of father figure and later laments losing his advice thats having a pretty bad time of it.

Aegon has done nothing for himself. He is a puppet of Varys and even his orgional idea is given by Tyrion and is IMO a trap Tyrion lured him into to scuper Varys n Illyrios plans by forcing them to abandon Dany.

All of ADWD is Dany having a bad time of it.

First part of SoS she has no allies and faces handing a dragon over to get anything. End of SoS she loses Jorah.

Clash of Kings she faces the relaity that nobody wants to help her in Westeros and "don't even know I'am alive". Can get no support from anyone without them using her for their own agenda

GoT-She spent her life as a begger.Her husband is killed by a spiteful woman she saved, she can't have children and is cast out into the red wastes where she and her Khalessar nearly starve to death.

She really doesn't have an easy time of it. Even when she really does do incredibly well in the second part of SoS this is off-set by her losing Jorah.

[Lord Paramount of Essos]

Well we're going to see a clinic of "good invasion vs. bad invasion."

Good invasion: Time your arrival when Cersei has driven away all her allies, so you'll become savior of Westeros. Lords and smallfolk will flock to your cause. Use a sellsword army of Westerosi exiles, familiar family names. Win the support of Dorne, some Reach lords, and perhaps even the Vale. Kneel to the High Septon and win the Faith Militant. Sit the Iron Throne.

Bad invasion: Time your arrival after Cersei has already been deposed by your alleged nephew who has a better alleged claim than you. No lords or smallfolk will flock to your cause. Use an army of magical monsters, foreign eunuchs, freed former foreign slaves, Dothraki, and ironborn, along with a kinslaying kingslaying noseless dwarf. Lose the support of Dorne forever after they hear exaggerated tales of how you drove their prince to barbecue himself, and after you cast doubt on the claim of the pretender they just backed. Pledge yourself to the foreign Red God. Have no plan for how you'll feed the tens of thousands of foreigners you're bringing to a starving continent. Deliver death and destruction to Westeros until you're eventually defeated or deposed.

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[total1402]

How is arriving just as Winter has arrived a good time to invade?

Not to mention that others believe that JC is bringing the Grey Plague to Westeros.

BTW where could Dany actually land her invasion force?

I think theres four possibilities

*Dragonstone-follow Aegons footsteps and jst a stones throw away from KL

*Lannisport-Many people think that go East to go West means that she will circumnavigate the world. She could then get Tyrion to convince the Rock to surrender and Vic could gain control of the Iron Islands.

*White Harbour-If she does the right thing. She will put all her people here and march up to Winterfell to join Stannis agaisnt the Others.

*The Veil-Is undecided, not involved and if Baelish thinks Varys is bad news why not Dany instead? If Sansa is in charge she could see the benefit of pointing the dragons north and convincing Dany to go North instead of south. Its only a quick hop over to White Harbour. They also are the only faction to have built up large stocks of food undisrupted by war so could supply an army much like Martel can.

ps Incidently on the Veil. If Baelish plan works or if Sansa manipulates young Arryn if Baelish is removed. Could they have Manderlys ships take men of the Veil to the Dreadfort and destroy it?

[the Scorpion Knight]

*White Harbour-If she does the right thing. She will put all her people here and march up to Winterfell to join Stannis agaisnt the Others.

land there and her army will die

nope the safest option for dany are dorne, the vale or the stormlands

[So1ar]

land there and her army will die

nope the safest option for dany are dorne, the vale or the stormlands

dorne is pretty much out of the picture when they find out quentyn is dead. aegon already has the stormlands (assuming he's against her) and littlefinger has the vale. i doubt he wants anything to do with dany but it's littlefinger so who knows. as it's already been said, dany will arrive too late for anyone to really want her which i think will be hilarious.

[total1402]

land there and her army will die

nope the safest option for dany are dorne, the vale or the stormlands

It has to be the Vale then. If she thinks Aegon as a threat and Dorne sides with Aegon then she needs somewhere with a lot of grain to land in. Also, on the Westeros Total War mod. I could be wrong but, geographically the veil has mountains ringing it landward but to the sea it actually has hundreds of large rivers leading into its center and few natrual obstacles preventing an invading army from reaching the major cities; most of which are close to the coast.

Plus, I think Sansa has a A LOT of parrallels to Dany. Both had their houses butchered, both have been played around as pawns, Sansa more than Dany coz Sansa doesn't have dragons (can't believe they made Ned kill her direwolf :crying: ). They could very well get on. Baelish, if the man wants to be King, well, hes not gonna get a better chance.

[total1402]

dorne is pretty much out of the picture when they find out quentyn is dead. aegon already has the stormlands (assuming he's against her) and littlefinger has the vale. i doubt he wants anything to do with dany but it's littlefinger so who knows. as it's already been said, dany will arrive too late for anyone to really want her which i think will be hilarious.

No, I think anyone knows that 3 dragons =win. Even if people hate Dany because of misplaced distrust, Baelsih wouldn't care, he'll back the side that will win and 3 dragons=win. IMO, the War of the Usruper began with a vicious bloodbath commited by targ against the Starks. I think that means that she will end up allying with the Starks when Rickon becomes King and as I said before Sansa n Dany could really get along. The Starks and the Tulleys are deposed houses who everyone wants to keep down. They have nothing really left to lose and if the North was willing to work with Stannis. A man who threatens to burn down their Godswoods and let Wildlings past the wall then I can't imagine them having greater issue with Dany.

[Gogossos]

In terms of storytelling, I'd land her in the Vale. Dorne and Stormlands will just be a repeat of the same dynamic that Aegon is likely going through. The north has too much going for it. And in the Vale, I have always had a feeling that Littlefinger won't get his opportunity to reveal Sansa in the dramatic fashion he wants. That means Sansa stays relatively obscure and when Dany's lot start approaching LF will have a lot on his plate (one of those being to keep Sansa under wraps and delaying Sweetrobin's death, keeping him officially in charge for a little while longer). Cue Dany and Sansa hitting it off, and Sansa secretly unveiling herself to Dany (her only realistic hope of returning to Winterfell sans Littlefinger). That's the kind of story that gets Dany involved quite quickly with the game of thrones without warfare, heading north and hence the Others. It's efficient and why I would land her in the Vale. Oh, and the Tyrion/Sansa dynamic once again.

[the Scorpion Knight]

maidenpoole might me better

[total1402]

maidenpoole might me better

Wheres that again?

[the Scorpion Knight]

in the riverlands

[So1ar]

No, I think anyone knows that 3 dragons =win. Even if people hate Dany because of misplaced distrust, Baelsih wouldn't care, he'll back the side that will win and 3 dragons=win. IMO, the War of the Usruper began with a vicious bloodbath commited by targ against the Starks. I think that means that she will end up allying with the Starks when Rickon becomes King and as I said before Sansa n Dany could really get along. The Starks and the Tulleys are deposed houses who everyone wants to keep down. They have nothing really left to lose and if the North was willing to work with Stannis. A man who threatens to burn down their Godswoods and let Wildlings past the wall then I can't imagine them having greater issue with Dany.

I didn't say she wouldn't wreck shop with 3 dragons and the unsullied. i said no one would want her. no one wanted aegon but he took the whole continent with 3 dragons. also, i think it's interesting that dany hasn't really declared for one religion over another. i don't think she knows much of the 7 or the old gods, yet the fire worshipers think she is jesus so i'm curious to see if she will declare for r'hllor. if she does that will put her at odds with most of the seven kingdoms. not to mention the old gods with bran, bloodraven, and the children of the forest. remember mel thinks bloodraven is the great other so i can't really see them getting along with the red priests. it's definitely going to be exciting when dany finally gets her royal ass to westeros.

[total1402]

Even if she did declare for Rhollor I doubt she would burn weirwoods and oppress the Seven like Stannis did. Those are the sorts of excesses she would never approve of. Incidentaly, do you think when Moqorro arrives she might have Hidazhar killed and use his blood to make a Valyrian steel blade for herself? Maybe a second since she promised Jorah one?

Plus all those fire worshippers in the riverlands would definetly rise up if they knew AA was on her way with 3 dragons.

[Mulled Wino]

I don't get what the appeal of Jon Snow is exactly and why so many people are taken with him. Myself, I never cared about him as a character, only as a plot device to narrate events at the wall and with Stannis in the North. Not at all like Jamie or Davos and especially Tyrion who is awesome dwarf-sauce. ;)

And i dont get how we are actually to believe under any circumstances that Tyrion should still be alive.

People like a lot of different type characters. I did an analysis of people on this site's votes for top 4 favorite characters and the top 4 of that were (in order... Arya, Jamie, Jon, Tyrion.

Dany i believe was 8th or 7th.i

[total1402]

And i dont get how we are actually to believe under any circumstances that Tyrion should still be alive.

People like a lot of different type characters. I did an analysis of people on this site's votes for top 4 favorite characters and the top 4 of that were (in order... Arya, Jamie, Jon, Tyrion.

Dany i believe was 8th or 7th.i

I'll admit that I probably only like Dany because she is the awesome female character with three dragons out to conquer the world. Of course I sympathise with her at several points and obviously want her to win. But nowhere near as much as with characters like Arya or Sansa, where there are some very well-done and emotional scenes involving those characters.

Tyrion and Jamie make me laugh. Jon Snow does not make me laugh. I like characters which make me laugh. I suppose Dany isn't funny either. Ygritte was hilarious, definetly one of the funniest female characters.

ps Ned got away with it because hes bloody Shawn Bean in the HBO show!

[Guest]

After reading this entire thread I see a common ground in both sides of the argument. Whether people want Dany to succeed or fail, I think we all can agree that we want GRRM to succeed in writing an interesting Dany arc. So I think Dany's "thunder" was stolen by the author himself, in that every one of her chapters in ADWD is the same chapter over and over again. Such tedium seems like a lame attempt at plot strawman, so that when she actually DOES do something, even if its make some delicious mac and cheese, she will be hailed as a badass (conqueror of pasta, perhaps?).

[DragonsHungry]

After reading this entire thread I see a common ground in both sides of the argument. Whether people want Dany to succeed or fail, I think we all can agree that we want GRRM to succeed in writing an interesting Dany arc. So I think Dany's "thunder" was stolen by the author himself, in that every one of her chapters in ADWD is the same chapter over and over again. Such tedium seems like a lame attempt at plot strawman, so that when she actually DOES do something, even if its make some delicious mac and cheese, she will be hailed as a badass (conqueror of pasta, perhaps?).

I wholeheartedly agree with that, her chapters in ADWD definitely were disappointing. and that was what stole the thunder for me.

It is hard to tell where GRRM is going with this, but if is a "Second Dance with Dragons", then it could be Targ vs Targ (Blackfyre is that theory is true), Dragon vs. Dragon (if it is a second Dance with Dragons), or maybe this is a red herring, and she and Aegon don't become enemies, who knows?

Whatever is going to happen, hopefully we don't get much Mereen aftermath (it can a smoking crater honestly, Alexander solved his Gordian Knot with a Sword, the same can apply to Mereen) and the story gets moving to Westeros for Dany.

[Rogue Knight]

My 2 cents....

One phrase mentioned by many in aDwD is "Words are wind."

A boy claims to be of House Targaryen and some even see it as truth, but they are still just Words in the Wind. Even if the boy could get people to follow him...would you follow a boy who claims it with words or a women who can show she is Targaryen with Fire & Blood....

[Guest]

Mereen aftermath (it can a smoking crater honestly, Alexander solved his Gordian Knot with a Sword, the same can apply to Mereen) and the story gets moving to Westeros for Dany.

Meereen - the setting that needs to be taken out back and shot. :drunk:

I jest, I jest (...somewhat)

Another thing that dawned on me while reading this thread: people seem more invested in the story when characters are simply allowed to kick ass.

At this point, all we want them to do is fuck shit up, George.

(note: "fuck shit up" =/= failing miserably at something)

[total1402]

Well, a whole book to dedicated to a character screwing up is a bit extreme and the tone of the thread reflects this.