Is Wow going to see the Starks vengence?

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

Rest assured, the wolves will come again.

He poked at the fire with his stick. “It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf’s dead and young one’s gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that’s left us is the ghosts.”

“The wolves will come again,” said Jojen solemnly.

“And how would you be knowing, boy?”

“I dreamed it."

Epic

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

Rickon is probably gonna be used by Manderly, to fight Sansa and the Vale. and they will end up killing one another. The only revenge the Starks are gonna get is from Arya sticking her pointy stick on other people's neck.

You think after all they went trough they would allow themselves to be mindless puppets of malevolent (is Manderly that?) strangers and look to kill each other?

[jon rr stark]

That would mean an extreme bodycount for her to be head of Northern forces and be Queen. Dany, Jon, Bran, Rickon, Sansa.

I'am actually refering explicitly to the Northern forces. This is still a hugely patriarchal society. Dany was very much an exception largely due to her dragons and having guardians like Jorah/Barristan around her. Plus as the breaker of chains she never had to trouble herself with issues like knights taking her seriously. If you look at Brienne and Asha prooven ability is not enough to guarentee getting respect or position. For Arya to be in charge would take various other things to happen to be believable when this context about female leaders has been so well established. ie most of the Starks dead. So I think her becoming a Queen or Lady of court, what she never wanted; would be her bittersweet ending. Not part of her main arc. Then again I suppose "Come the Apocalypse" they might not mind. But still, her arc has been so focused on vengence and going to have 3 books dedicated to her training as a FM it would be odd if that didn't go somewhere.

I dont see Bran rickon or sansa coming before her. Bran is to busy becoming a tree, Rickon will be the stark in winterfell. Sansa will be the lady of the vale/ and/or riverrun. As to the respect thing she will have killed enough of her enemies to earn that or at least gain enough fear. Her training as an FM will facilitate that but she will return to the Stark fold later maybe that sooner.

[pitakon]

You think after all they went trough they would allow themselves to be mindless puppets of malevolent (is Manderly that?) strangers and look to kill each other?

Rickon is a little boy. He doesnt know what being a puppet is. I don't really have a reason other than GRRM wanting to torment his characters. That's what "gritty" fantasy means this days.

[Grail King]

The Starks revenge will be plainly simple, they will survive, most of their enemies are being taken out by others (not The Others ), the loyalty that Ned fostered is probably unique and hence garnered much respect .

The best revenge is your house still lives.

I know I said this in the Stark revenge getting lesser thread but it's still the same.

Bran and Jon have the job of basically protecting the realm from the dangers from the north, one to fight and one the major spy and tactician.

Rickon's role seems to form a cohesive support for the Northern armies and Winterfell and put a Stark back in control and provide the rally point.

Sansa and Arya are the two sides of the political coin, they will be instrumental in bringing House Stark back and placing it in a better political position and removing some opposition down South.

And one or two may also die, I hope not I want George to be done killing Starks.

[Peko]

The Starks revenge will be plainly simple, they will survive, most of their enemies are being taken out by others (not The Others ), the loyalty that Ned fostered is probably unique and hence garnered much respect .

The best revenge is your house still lives.

Came to post something along these lines. The most ideal thing is to re-emerge stronger than ever, to see the stunned looks on the faces of your enemies who are gradually succumbing to winter (literally and figuratively). Plus, revenge goes against all of their characters except Arya.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

I think Rickon will be returned and become the Stark in Winterfell, but this will be akin to Danny hatching her dragon eggs--an awesome and satisfying scene, but really only the first step in a long an arduous road back to power.

Sansa will continue to pose as Alayne as long as Tyrion is alive, which will be the whole book. However, she can still become Lady of the Vale. Harry the Heir has been painted as a philandering, mediocre sort of person, so Lady Alayne will be the real power and start making alliances, either with Stannis, Targs, or other major players. Her relationship with Littlefinger could parallel Danny/Viserys in that once she marries into power she quickly eclipses her pervy guardian and his death may result from this.

Arya may eventually lead a posse of other assassins or guerilla fighters, but I think her power will always derive from being quick, clever, and sneaky. Nymeria is her door to things shell never do, like Summer is for Bran. Nymeria gives Arya a glimpse at running people down, overpowering them, ripping their throats out, and leading a huge pack, just as Summer let's Bran experience running and hunting. However, Bran himself will never run, his power lies elsewhere, and and I think Arya's power lies somewhere besides overt leadership. I think she will kill or stop some important people, and may become a spymaster for a sibling or other ally. I also think an important part of her arc is figuring out a better system of right and wrong, beyond "you hurt or threatened me so you must die". She will get some justice for the Starks, but not in the spirit of revenge.

Bran will stay in the tree, but he will be able to communicate with Jon via weir wood net and this will be crucial to defeating the Others. No direct revenge there.

Jon...beyond getting more Warg-y, I have no idea, but I think he'll be more focused on Others than Stark vengeance.

[Kanon]

A Dream of Spring was going to be called A Time for Wolves, but GRRM decided to not use this titles because it gave away too much, so im pretty sure the POV stark children will still be alive and will have some form of closure...

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

Came to post something along these lines. The most ideal thing is to re-emerge stronger than ever, to see the stunned looks on the faces of your enemies who are gradually succumbing to winter (literally and figuratively). Plus, revenge goes against all of their characters except Arya.

You think so. Just to remind you - Sansa wanted to push Joffrey from the walls ending both their lives. Jon - well he did get his NW brothers in order. Executing one. Sending other to death. Going after Boltons - yes, vengeance totally out of his character. Bran is merciful and kind but don't think for a second he would hesitate to avenge Ned and Robb. After all he passed Eddard's little test in AGoT. And Rickon - well, he'll grow into something special.

[Peko]

You think so. Just to remind you - Sansa wanted to push Joffrey from the walls ending both their lives. Jon - well he did get his NW brothers in order. Executing one. Sending other to death. Going after Boltons - yes, vengeance totally out of his character. Bran is merciful and kind but don't think for a second he would hesitate to avenge Ned and Robb. After all he passed Eddard's little test in AGoT. And Rickon - well, he'll grow into something special.

To be fair, I meant revenge along the lines of the events depicted in the 'Rains of Castamere' or even Theon's actions against Winterfell in ACoK. Excessively harsh and cruel.

And I wouldn't label any of the instances you brought up as revenge.

Jon's execution of Janos Slynt was cold justice for defying orders, it was his duty to sentence him to death. The writer of the pink letter openly threatened Jon and the Night's Watch, so he had to act out of self-defense. Yes, he was invested in it personally because of 'Arya', but again, he was acting out of duty. Had he merely heard that 'Arya' was married to Ramsay, but not been threatened, I'm inclined to believe he would have begrudgingly done nothing, similar to when Robb called the banners in AGoT.

What you said about Bran is mere conjecture, but his witnessing of Gared's execution, an act of duty and justice, along with his lecture from Ned afterward, hints more strongly that he would be made of the same honorable stuff as Ned.

Sansa's case is the one I have the toughest time countering. Yes, her thoughts of killing Joffrey and herself were vegeful thoughts indeed. But the key thing is that she didn't do it, overcoming the urge to get revenge. What normal person wouldn't want to kill his/her father's murderer? And what person could resist that emotion? The fact that Sansa opted not to shows that she is morally superior. Plus, you can add the times where she's thought to herself how she's going to be a good Queen and loved by the people, the opposite of Cersei. I'd like to think she knows that's not possible if she avenges every wrongdoing she's been subjected to.

Rickon's the one I'm inclined to think you may be right about, only because he was hardly raised by his parents, and has presumably spent a great deal of time in harsh places with a wildling woman. But no one can no for sure, since we don't even know what his time on Skaagos has been truly like.

[The King of Worms]

To be fair, I meant revenge along the lines of the events depicted in the 'Rains of Castamere' or even Theon's actions against Winterfell in ACoK. Excessively harsh and cruel.

And I wouldn't label any of the instances you brought up as revenge.

Jon's execution of Janos Slynt was cold justice for defying orders, it was his duty to sentence him to death. The writer of the pink letter openly threatened Jon and the Night's Watch, so he had to act out of self-defense. Yes, he was invested in it personally because of 'Arya', but again, he was acting out of duty. Had he merely heard that 'Arya' was married to Ramsay, but not been threatened, I'm inclined to believe he would have begrudgingly done nothing, similar to when Robb called the banners in AGoT.

What you said about Bran is mere conjecture, but his witnessing of Gared's execution, an act of duty and justice, along with his lecture from Ned afterward, hints more strongly that he would be made of the same honorable stuff as Ned.

Sansa's case is the one I have the toughest time countering. Yes, her thoughts of killing Joffrey and herself were vegeful thoughts indeed. But the key thing is that she didn't do it, overcoming the urge to get revenge. What normal person wouldn't want to kill his/her father's murderer? And what person could resist that emotion? The fact that Sansa opted not to shows that she is morally superior. Plus, you can add the times where she's thought to herself how she's going to be a good Queen and loved by the people, the opposite of Cersei. I'd like to think she knows that's not possible if she avenges every wrongdoing she's been subjected to.

Rickon's the one I'm inclined to think you may be right about, only because he was hardly raised by his parents, and has presumably spent a great deal of time in harsh places with a wildling woman. But no one can no for sure, since we don't even know what his time on Skaagos has been truly like.

I think that all of the Stark kids, including Sansa, have shown examples of having honor at this point. They all show some of Ned's values in different scenes. And they have all survived except Robb. Pretty amazing.

Going back to Robert's War, when Ned was a young bad-ass and the Starks headed South, only Ned and Benjen survived. Their sister, their brother, their dad... all of them died. Even so, the Starks rose again to power and survived.

So from this in itself I think we have one more Stark death coming. If Jon is like Ned, than his dad dies first, then his brother, then his sister... history repeating itself. Finally though, House Stark is once again ruling the North, allied with Baratheons and the Vale.

Jon and Val ruling the Gift from Winterfell..? with a crop of kids..

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

To be fair, I meant revenge along the lines of the events depicted in the 'Rains of Castamere' or even Theon's actions against Winterfell in ACoK. Excessively harsh and cruel.

And I wouldn't label any of the instances you brought up as revenge.

Jon's execution of Janos Slynt was cold justice for defying orders, it was his duty to sentence him to death. The writer of the pink letter openly threatened Jon and the Night's Watch, so he had to act out of self-defense. Yes, he was invested in it personally because of 'Arya', but again, he was acting out of duty. Had he merely heard that 'Arya' was married to Ramsay, but not been threatened, I'm inclined to believe he would have begrudgingly done nothing, similar to when Robb called the banners in AGoT.

What you said about Bran is mere conjecture, but his witnessing of Gared's execution, an act of duty and justice, along with his lecture from Ned afterward, hints more strongly that he would be made of the same honorable stuff as Ned.

Sansa's case is the one I have the toughest time countering. Yes, her thoughts of killing Joffrey and herself were vegeful thoughts indeed. But the key thing is that she didn't do it, overcoming the urge to get revenge. What normal person wouldn't want to kill his/her father's murderer? And what person could resist that emotion? The fact that Sansa opted not to shows that she is morally superior. Plus, you can add the times where she's thought to herself how she's going to be a good Queen and loved by the people, the opposite of Cersei. I'd like to think she knows that's not possible if she avenges every wrongdoing she's been subjected to.

Rickon's the one I'm inclined to think you may be right about, only because he was hardly raised by his parents, and has presumably spent a great deal of time in harsh places with a wildling woman. But no one can no for sure, since we don't even know what his time on Skaagos has been truly like.

I'm saying they are not some helpless douches unable to avenge themselves (I'm thinking of maester Kerwin and his "troubles" on Iron Victory)

And Sansa didn't "rethink". Hound placed himself between her and Joff.

[House Stargaryen]

I agree with Grail King, the Stark's vengeance will be survival..Although i see Arya going on a killing spree in the near future :D

[aryagonnakill]

I'm saying they are not some helpless douches unable to avenge themselves (I'm thinking of maester Kerwin and his "troubles" on Iron Victory)

And Sansa didn't "rethink". Hound placed himself between her and Joff.

sansa definitely qualifies as a helpless douch

[sandsnakes]

I think you all could be great writers...my feeling starting with jon , i dont believe he is dead, but they do he is in ghost yet his body lives. remember medical care is not the best there. i think they send his body (comatose) back to winterfell to be buried. there in the crypts he gets not only his healing which i think is from a dragon or the actual lightbringer sword he will also learn the truth about his parents. remember he is afraid to go down there but his destiny is there. someone else knows lightbringer may be down there as all the swords are missing. the heat coming from down there and all the passages make me think there is a dragon of stone that comes to life or wakes to jons presence there.i think he will return in the heat of the battle with the others. every one of the stark children are receiving training of one kind or another they will use these in this great battle as a united front. altho they may not know at first it is one or the other. i.e. sansa may not recognize arya and perhaps arya being sent to kill LF and daughter but sees it is sansa. remember Ned said during winter the pack needs to stay together to survive. most of the WOW will be battle and joining together.all of their warging abilities will mature. i worry abut sansa as we have seen no warging altho i think she will end up with the hound or remain married to tyrion and be queen.i think tryion is a Targ.altho i believe his already marriage to Tysha will annul his to sansa. and in reality think he is going to be with arya. bran is definately one huge key figure becoming the strongest greenseer ever. he already can make people hear him on his first attempts.great things are in store there. Sansa is learning finally something. it is also survival and i think she will rule somewhere, either north or queen. arya is learning not to have vengence or revenge by being in the FM who i think are connected to the weirwoods in some way. she also is going to learn at the citadel. and dont forget about the martells there too they are going into all kinds of corners. arya will be sent by FM back to Westeros but will not stay with them as she will always be arya deep down. and will connect with her wolf perhaps in a near death possibility like hiding and being surrounded by pack but Nym recognizes her and defends her. from there Great things are happening. Rikkon will be wild but that wildness will make him courageous, He will also be an awesome force. uniting most of the north under him and will be lord of winterfell. i think jon will be with dany and. val. altho i also suspect either one of these woman will perhaps die

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

sansa definitely qualifies as a helpless douch

Oh, I think you are heavily underestimating our little rose. She has a thorn or two at her disposal.

She is no Robb but believe me she is not helpless.

[A Stark in Salem]

If anything, things are going to get worse before they get better. The Stark motto is basically saying "get ready for shit to hit the fan." As of the epilogue of A Dance with Dragons, Winter HAS come.

I can't see it getting any worse for the Starks themselves, but I agree it may be a while before they actually have any serious return to power. Bran is out, though will be a powerful force in the coming war with the Others.

Jon is the most likely to set things aright one way or the other.

Arya, though still saying her prayer of vengeance seems genuinely dedicated to becoming a real FM. Unlike the TV show, she is not training to go kill all her enemies. She sure as hell isn't showing up with a company of Bravosi sell-swords (pretty sure that idea was tongue in cheek anyway).

Why do so many people speculate that Rickon is going to be a player? Although I have gotten to the habit of automatically adding 5 years to the age all characters (or else half the action would be absurdly far-fetched) even with that calculation he'd be about? 8-9 years old maybe? So far he's started out as a wild child who lost his parents before he even learned to read as far as I can tell, and things have not improved since. No training in weapons, no history or learning at all. No sense of what would be expected of him as a lord or knight even. He's got his blood for the North to honor, and everyone else to want to take. He has his equally un-ruly wolf and he has a wildling nanny. Not a great list for doing much at all.

Sansa, though proving to be a survivor of sorts, is about as far from a leader as you'll ever find. She's stilling hoping beyond reason for her happily ever after IMO. I would welcome her finding a way to f*** over Little Finger though. He is such a conniving prick he deserves it a couple of times over.

For soldiers though, many are still in play. And don't discount the possibility of a devastating pairing of Jamie and Brienne leading the charge at some point.

[HouseLark]

Sansa will sit the Iron Throne at the end of it all so I expect her to start her rise in TWOW. Of all the Starks, she will be the most capable of ruling. Even after all is done, and maybe even if the kingdoms are united, people will always scheme against the ruler, there will always be a Littlefinger and a Varys. Sansa is the character that will be best equipped to deal with those people. In many ways, she will be the perfect queen: intelligent, experienced at court, endured the most terrible hardships, and she will be benevolent.

As for the how: I'm sure she can get her marriage dissolved by some septon or other. It was a marriage under duress and was never consummated. I believe that Sansa will "work the Vale" in TWOW, gather a powerbase using her friendship with Robert and she will use that to remove Littlefinger from the picture - I don't think Littlefinger will die. And from there it's a long journey but the first step is for Sansa to become genuinely empowered.

None of the Starks will ever go to war with one another, no matter the machinations of the older Lords who may scheme to have them do so.

[Grail King]

sansa definitely qualifies as a helpless douch

I totally disagree with your assessment.

[A Stark in Salem]

"

Sansa will sit the Iron Throne at the end of it all so I expect her to start her rise in TWOW. Of all the Starks, she will be the most capable of ruling."

I think that is crazy talk HouseLark. Sansa time and again has shown herself to be the least capable of guiding her destiny of not just the Starks, but of almost any character. Friendship with Robert? That kid has been literally at his mom's breast for his whole life, has daily seizures and will die the first bad cold he gets in the upcoming Winter. He certainly is not capable of inspiring or leading anyone, let alone scheming.

The best you can say about Sansa is that she's been a lucky survivor based on some womanly charms and a certain innocence that have motivated The Hound, LF and a few others to try and help her out. But she's also been as much a pawn of LF than anything else. As much as he swoon over her, the day he finds out she's working against him, it's all over. She hasn't the guts or will to bend anyone else's knee, let alone make the hard and brutal choices she'd need to make to command respect or lead an army. She'd be lucky to be able to rule the North, but again, the North-men are hard and rough-hewn; underneath she still wishes to be a princess in silks.

Despite all that, I don't hate her as a character. But her main purpose seems more to be a witness than a player. It's not entirely her fault anyway: she was raised to be a great prize to be married off to another lord, not to lead.