A Thread for Small Questions XX

[Aelos]

This, for instance: http://asoiaf.wester...-of-winterfell/

Thanks alot!

[dragontamer]

When a bastard is legitimised he is legit, as if he was trueborn. And we know that once legitimised it can't be undone, as Catelyn tells Robb when he talks to her about his will.

ETA ... as I am writing this ... Robert acknowledged Edric Storm as his son, but did not made him 'legit' in the sense of that Edric carried his name or was his heir. So there were more actions needed, as in Robb's will, where he as King of the North made Jon legit and as Lord of Winterfell named him as his heir, surpassing Sansa. So I guess two statements are necessary.

ETA2 In the case of Robb there was no younger trueborn son alive (or so Robb thought at that moment). I suppose that if you make a bastard son legit, acknowledge him as your son and name him as your heir, this would not please the House of the spouse that gave you the younger son though. I suppose a third act would be needed, to disinherit the younger son. You would probably had to have a good reason for this, because of what we know about Tywin not finding cause for disinheriting Tyrion and nor Randyll Tarly for disinheriting Sam.

_{edited for clarity and poor English}

Thanks for the answer.

I was actually contemplating whether Daemon's claim to the throne was stronger than Daeron's II if the former was older and legit.

[WhiteWolf26]

Thanks for the answer.

I was actually contemplating whether Daemon's claim to the throne was stronger than Daeron's II if the former was older and legit.

I believe legit bastards still fall after trueborn younger sons, and possibly even daughters? In the case of the Starks, hypothetically, if Ned had legitimized Jon as a child he would still fall after Arya in the line of succession...I think.

[FanTasy]

Maybe this helps: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Concordance/Section/2.3.2./

[Davos' fingertip]

What happens if Tommen dies? Will the lannisters give up the Throne to Stannis then?

[rmholt]

What happens if Tommen dies? Will the lannisters give up the Throne to Stannis then?

Which Lannisters would that be?

[The Spoony Bard]

What happens if Tommen dies? Will the lannisters give up the Throne to Stannis then?

No, the Iron Throne would pass to Myrcella.

[Dragonfish]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1053/

Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpertations, and often contradictory.

A man's eldest son was his heir. After that the next eldest son. Then the next, etc. Daughters were not considered while there was a living son, except in Dorne, where females had equal right of inheritance according to age.

After the sons, most would say that the eldest daughter is next in line. But there might be an argument from the dead man's brothers, say. Does a male sibling or a female child take precedence? Each side has a "claim."

What if there are no childen, only grandchildren and great grandchildren. Is precedence or proximity the more important principle? Do bastards have any rights? What about bastards who have been legitimized, do they go in at the end after the trueborn kids, or according to birth order? What about widows? And what about the will of the deceased? Can a lord disinherit one son, and name a younger son as heir? Or even a bastard?

There are no clear cut answers, either in Westeros or in real medieval history. Things were often decided on a case by case basis. A case might set a precedent for later cases... but as often as not, the precedents conflicted as much as the claims.

[rmholt]

Small question on Lannister history:

Lann the Clever was supposed to be the founder of the Lannisters - in the female line (raising the question of where "Lannister" came from) Do we know what era he is from?

When the Targaryens arrived, Loren of the Rock had Casterly Rock and is a direct ancestor of the current Lannisters.

The G o T says the Lannisters are Andals, so I presume they took Casterly Rock - and I have seen mention of the Casterlys. Do we know if the Casterlys were First Men or if they were another Andal family routed by the Lannisters?

[Dragonfish]

Lann the Clever was around during the Age of Heroes. It was he who tricked Casterly Rock away from the Casterlys. Not sure what happened between then and the Conquest. But then again, much of what happened before the Andals came is meant to be vague.

[rmholt]

Lann the Clever was around during the Age of Heroes.

Ah, thanks. So the Lannisters do have a little First Men in them.

[The Piece Maker]

What will become of the Lannisters?

Jamie can't inherit, Cercei's future is up in the air, and Tyrion is in exile.

Will Lancel step up?

I (almost) feel sorry for them.

[rmholt]

What will become of the Lannisters?

Jamie can't inherit, Cercei's future is up in the air, and Tyrion is in exile.

Will Lancel step up?

I (almost) feel sorry for them.

Not Lancel, he got religion.

Devan maybe. Or Gemma. Myrcella is doomed like Tommen. Perhaps if she marries Trystane...he can get the castle.

Of course that only settles Casterly Rock. "Baratheon" descendents - only the bastards. Who can legitimize them that would be motivated to do so?

Myrcella is doomed like Tommen. Perhaps if she marries Trystane...he can get the kingdom.

Tyrion cant ascend to the throne in any way.

[WhiteWolf26]

What will become of the Lannisters?

Jamie can't inherit, Cercei's future is up in the air, and Tyrion is in exile.

Will Lancel step up?

I (almost) feel sorry for them.

I feel like Tyrion has to end up as Lord of the Rock. It just seems like there is no one else.

[rmholt]

I feel like Tyrion has to end up as Lord of the Rock. It just seems like there is no one else.

:agree:

He has to. Whether he ever gets there or not is another question.

[The Piece Maker]

:agree:

He has to. Whether he ever gets there or not is another question.

Maybe if he turns out to be a REALLY good advisor to Dany AND she comes to power she would pardon him and give him Casterly Rock.

[rmholt]

Small questions:

Was this forum extant before some of the later books?

If so, did the Hivemind prove to be right in any predictions?

M

[kegpack]

Small question on COK jon's 7th chapter

Is that bran from tWoW/aDoS speaking to jon/ghost through the weirwood tree?

[Lebronn Jaime]

Small questions:

Was this forum extant before some of the later books?

If so, did the Hivemind prove to be right in any predictions?

M

The oldest posts still available on the site are from around the time AFFC was published, but it's been around a lot longer than that, iirc.

Here is a predictions post from the middle of the period between AFFC and ADWD: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/29068-predictions/. A lot of the posts are actually wishlists, but some of the stuff there is spot on. Uncanny, really.

Here is an actual wishlist thread from after AFFC : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/14870-things-i-want-to-happen-in-a-dance-with-dragons/. Again, some of the ideas are oracular.

[corbon]

Small questions:

Was this forum extant before some of the later books?

If so, did the Hivemind prove to be right in any predictions?

M

If you go to page 462, after ordering teh threads by start date, you get threads from 2005. Its possible that this is also not the original forum.

So yes, definitely before the most recent two books, or thereabouts.

It seems that most predictions are usually of events that are still yet to come or unconfirmed. But I have, for example, heard of people predicting the return of Aegon from well before 2005, so at least some predictions to appear to have been accurate.