Heresy 17

[Uncat]

I always thought of the nights watch as a very isolated group. Up at the Wall the rest of the realm could forget you very easy and they really don't seem to be a part of the kingdom.

But Aemon beeing a maester - with his "own" ravens - and also a targ he may have had the privilege of contacts to his old life. Not sure if a maester is allowed to use the ravens for personal chat or just for official serving-their-lord-stuff (in this case nights watch business)?

Being the Walls Measter and Brother to the King would have some upsides, I suppose. Even, if you are decided to take your wows mostly serious. :)

[7V3N]

Being the Walls Measter and Brother to the King would have some upsides, I suppose. Even, if you are decided to take your wows mostly serious. :)

That's similar to why people backed Slynt, right? He was supported by the Iron Throne, so people supported him hoping that they could benefit from the "alliance" or just out of fear of the power of the Throne.

[Uncat]

Actually I was thinking along much simpler lines. Egg at least could very well afford to keep his broter stocked with ravens for his own purposes. And aside from the LC no one would know anyway if Aemon gets a personal letter and raven once in a while. And the LC usualy would not object, as long as he is no radical on the oath thing.

After all you only cut yourself loose as a family member. It says nothing about staying friends. And look at Benjen visitin Winterfell. He is there as a Stark, even though his wow says, he isn't one any longer.

It's the slack you would cut each other from one high officer to another all the time. And then I Aemon would know it when ever somebody leaves for KL on the usual recruiting tour. And again, who would object Maester Aemon entrusting this man a personal letter. The small benefitts of the high ranks.

[hotweaselsoup]

Just what I think, but it is hard to argue it.

Still, it is an interesting pairing. The First Man heir and the man who combines the threads of pure fire with the knowledge of the maesters. Both moving to the end to the world and surviving there long enough to "see" the show begin. Aemon even suspects, that he would have made it a few more years, had he stayed at the Wall.

And if we forget for a moment, that there are the Dunk and Egg storys them things look like this:

Bran stumbles upon a man, of whom we first were told by Aemon and who came to the Wall with Armon. It is not a proof but it is a literary link big enough to walk on it.

So, yeay, Aemon is in with BR and advising th LCs after BR and that is why, Mormont knows some things.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I see Bloodraven and Maester Aemon in cahoots. Aemon strikes me as still being under the spell of the Targaryen PTWP prophesy, which is all about dragons, whereas Bloodraven clearly took the weirwood path (which seems more about seeking the Greenseer-who-was-promised). Don't these two paths seem divergent? Maybe even at odds? Bloodraven seems to have spent the better part of his life in service to the Targaryens - even perhaps killed his brother for them - and yet he is ultimately rewarded with a berth in the black cells. He was plucked from the dungeons to serve as part of an "honor guard" for Aemon's trek to the Wall, but I can't see him being pleased about it. You have to wonder what he stewed about, all that time in the dark. Was he bitter? How did he feel towards Aemon, that representative of the family that cast him out (perhaps)? Of course, we don't yet know, and may never know, but I don't think it was necessarily a happy reunion.

Just to add: if Bloodraven was imprisoned at the beginning of Maekar's reign, and only released when Aegon V ascended the throne, it would mean that he was in the black cells for *twelve years*. That's a long time to nurse a grudge.

I do agree that it's possible that Aemon was in contact with Rhaegar about the PTWP prophecy, although I doubt that he led Rhaegar to the prophecy in the first place.

edited for spelling

[Uncat]

On the first part of your post, I'm swaying on this like a weirwood in the wind. Realy good point. Years in the black cells... :dunno:

On the Rheagar thing: The boy was bookish and he may have come across some book or some reference. But Aemon had a hand in him assuming or at least in him accepting his own idea about being the PTWP. When Aemon tells Sam about it, he says, that he and Rheagar had assumed it. If i could only remeber where this part was. I think it was in his fevertalks with Sam. But it may also have been in his chat with Mel about AA and PTWP. The way he tells it made feel, he was a driving force.

Edit:

Ok,, I have reread my earlier posts and it looks like I' really can't make up my mind on this. But actually, I'm inclined a little more to follow you on this Aemon still can't let go of the dragons. He dreams about them and maybe he thinks, he can comtroll things, if he is there soon enough, to prevent a tempest o fire. But he does not look likly to give them up.

[Dengeleng]

"On Braavos, it had seemed possible that Aemon might recover. Xhondo’s talk of dragons had almost seemed to restore the old man to himself. That night he ate every bite Sam put before him. “No one ever looked for a girl,” he said. “It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.” Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. “I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger.”"

Okay, this is from Feast and it really sounds like they have talked, or raven-ed, about all of this…

[Uncat]

:agree: and :bow: Thankyou and your ebook magic!

[Dengeleng]

It was Spotlight-magic and thank the gods, it has a hilt :)

[7V3N]

On the first part of your post, I'm swaying on this like a weirwood in the wind. Realy good point. Years in the black cells... :dunno:

On the Rheagar thing: The boy was bookish and he may have come across some book or some reference. But Aemon had a hand in him assuming or at least in him accepting his own idea about being the PTWP. When Aemon tells Sam about it, he says, that he and Rheagar had assumed it. If i could only remeber where this part was. I think it was in his fevertalks with Sam. But it may also have been in his chat with Mel about AA and PTWP. The way he tells it made feel, he was a driving force.

Edit:

Ok,, I have reread my earlier posts and it looks like I' really can't make up my mind on this. But actually, I'm inclined a little more to follow you on this Aemon still can't let go of the dragons. He dreams about them and maybe he thinks, he can comtroll things, if he is there soon enough, to prevent a tempest o fire. But he does not look likly to give them up.

I think you are right that it was with Sam, during his fever talks and the "oh Egg"'s.

ETA: Beat to it and outdone.

[Uncat]

Dear ebook-magic-wielder - Edit: spotlight-magic-wirlder- would you mind digging up the passage, where Aemon tells Sam, how he first came to the Wall. It is in Feast and searching for Bloodraven should do the trick. If not, it is on the crossing to Braavos, pn the hight of Skagos, right before the storm, I think. It would make you my personal hero. Really would!

[Dengeleng]

"Though Aemon’s eyes had dimmed and gone dark, there was nothing wrong with his ears. “I was not born blind,” he reminded them. “When last I passed this way, I saw every rock and tree and whitecap, and watched the grey gulls flying in our wake. I was five-and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander.”

“Bloodraven?” said Dareon. “I know a song about him. ‘A Thousand Eyes, and One,’ it’s called. But I thought he lived a hundred years ago.”

“We all did. Once I was as young as you.” That seemed to make him sad. He coughed, and closed his eyes, and went to sleep, swaying in his furs whenever some wave rocked the ship."

[Uncat]

If I would remeber how to :bow: I would so :bows: for you and never stop :bowing: . Just can't remeber to bow.

[hotweaselsoup]

"The language misled us all for a thousand years.”"

Interesting. If they are trying to piece things together from those eons-old visions of Aenar Targaryen's maiden daughter, it seems likely that 1.) they are working from fragments, 2.) they must translate from perhaps archaic High Valyrian, and 3.) they must tease meaning from riddles.

No wonder they keep getting it wrong! (And apparently they have been at it for a thousand years. WHY???)

I take back my statement that I don't think Aemon led Rhaegar to the prophecy. You're right that it seems like he was in on it from the beginning.

[alienarea]

Oh no! It's the Clone Wars all over again! :lol:

Meesa kinda worried (is ASoIaF before or after the Stark Hyperspace war?)

[Uncat]

There it is: Egg wanted me to help him rule. But I knew my place was here.

Why this. As far as I read it, the Aerchemaesters did not force him out or pressed the Wall upon him. The just were glad, he went. So he had some kin of idea, that it would be of great importance for the realm, to be at the Wall. Of even greater, them to advice the King.

A Heretic thought: Did Aemon let Egg have the throne, to install him there and install him self at the Wall? It is kind of an inversion of what the Starks once did

[Ser Leftwich]

There it is: Egg wanted me to help him rule. But I knew my place was here.

Why this. As far as I read it, the Aerchemaesters did not force him out or pressed the Wall upon him. The just were glad, he went. So he had some kin of idea, that it would be of great importance for the realm, to be at the Wall. Of even greater, them to advice the King.

snip

Aemon going on his own does not mean that the Archmaesters didn't want to take him out, just that they no longer had to take action. For some reason, I can't help but believe Marwyn, not sure why.

Thinking about possible connections between Rhaegar and Aemon gives me a long-shot idea. Who was a regular in the court of KL during part of Egg's rule, was unmasked/nicknames by Prince Dunk, later unhorsed both Dunk and Prince Dunk, who later joined the Kingsguard, and might know something about, well, pretty much everything in the past at KL, but who Dany just won't ask any real questions.

Hoping there will be a scene with Barristan and Marwyn talking about the past.

[alienarea]

snip

Aemon going on his own does not mean that the Archmaesters didn't want to take him out, just that they no longer had to take action. For some reason, I can't help but believe Marwyn, not sure why.

Thinking about possible connections between Rhaegar and Aemon gives me a long-shot idea. Who was a regular in the court of KL during part of Egg's rule, was unmasked/nicknames by Prince Dunk, later unhorsed both Dunk and Prince Dunk, who later joined the Kingsguard, and might know something about, well, pretty much everything in the past at KL, but who Dany just won't ask any real questions.

Hoping there will be a scene with Barristan and Marwyn talking about the past.

... but of course one of them would get killed mid-sentence before spilling the beans.

[Tyryan Lannister]

... but of course one of them would get killed mid-sentence before spilling the beans.

Likely Marwyn. Barristan's curse is that he has all this really great, important shit to tell but no one around who would actually care to listen (and, of course, the few times he did have someone around who cared to listen--Dany--he was too concerned with protecting her from the truth of her father that he never gave all the info he should have)

[Dengeleng]

So now we think that Aegon, Aemon and Rhaegar knew the same prophecy and tried together to figure out how to get dragons back.

We're not sure if Bloodraven

( a ) knew about their attempts, agreed with them and tried to help or

( b ) was kept out of the picture because they didn't trust him because of what he has done to get imprisoned by Maekar or

( c ) didn't wanted to be included

( c1 ) because he started to loath his targ-family or

( c2 ) knew that dragons would be a threat ?

( c ) would then also mean that BR must have worked against Aemon i think…

maybe i forgot something, it almost the hour of the wolf here :)

As for the problem with the knowledge of Marwyn, Barristan or the Reed-Kids, its not that their companions don't want to listen or ask the wrong questions… i thinks its just that GRRM don't want them to reveal to much story to soon :)

[Black Crow]

So why, we have to ask did Aemon know his place was at the Wall - at the end of the known world. Sure, he doesn't want the Iron Throne, but the Wall? Unless there's a reason and I find it very hard to believe it wasn't Bryn Blackwood, the Lord Commander who disappeared without anybody noticing he's gone.