King in the North or Warden of the North?

[barbandazi]

Much as I like Robb, I think seceding from the realm was a bad move, the North doesn't have enough population to fight the South on it's own and this alienated him from potential allies. The Starks are really in no position now or any time soon to lead a kingdom. What the North needs to do is just join Stannis so he can place the Starks back in Winterfell and the Tully's back in Riverrun while sacking the Dreadfort and the Twins and then join with Riverlords and than deal with the Lannisters.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Did they make a referendum about Northern independence? No. The highest Northern nobles decided to make Robb king. For all we know, most of the population might've been against the idea. After all, given the wide autonomy the North had, the difference is quite minimal, especially for the smallfolk.

When has anyone ever had a referendum about anything, ever?

[barbandazi]

Given the price the northerners (sorry, the northerners who are pro-Stark) have already paid for their independence, I'd be very disappointed if they didn't pursue it. They don't owe anyone anything; they are under no obligation to help some Iron Throne-polisher "complete the set."

And lest I be seen as annoying (the horror!) for being pro-northern autonomy, I'm also in favor of Dorne being independent, as well as any other kingdom in Westeros that wants to break away.

Neither Bran or Rickon are able to lead the North or able to govern in any way and with a boy king, who's gonna rule the country? Which Lord? And would the others accept him? Unless Jon Snow steps forwards (and not everyone respects bastards, not even the NW, leave alone Lords) as King in the North, which he won't, there's no chance of the north being independent kingdom again.

[nQthing]

Will the lannisters be powerful without a figure head to lead them?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Did they organise a referendum about Northern independence? No. The highest Northern nobles decided to make Robb king. For all we know, most of the population might've been against the idea. After all, given the wide autonomy the North had, the difference is quite minimal, especially for the smallfolk.

Was ever a referendum about Aegon's conquest? No

Neither Bran or Rickon are able to lead the North or able to govern in any way and with a boy king, who's gonna rule the country? Which Lord? And would the others accept him? Unless Jon Snow steps forwards (and not everyone respects bastards, not even the NW, leave alone Lords) as King in the North, which he won't, there's no chance of the north being independent kingdom again.

Kids may not lead but others can lead an army at their name

Boy king? Tommen, Joff is that you?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Neither Bran or Rickon are able to lead the North or able to govern in any way and with a boy king, who's gonna rule the country? Which Lord? And would the others accept him? Unless Jon Snow steps forwards (and not everyone respects bastards, not even the NW, leave alone Lords) as King in the North, which he won't, there's no chance of the north being independent kingdom again.

Manderly (probably the top candidate), Glover, Umber ... take your pick. By this argument, Tommen on the Iron Throne should be utter chaos, but — apart from other rebellions still going on that preceded him and Varys' attempts to wreck everything — the setup there is actually pretty decent, once Cersei's tossed out of it. Why couldn't the North have a similar situation under Rickon?

[kg1982]

Neither Bran or Rickon are able to lead the North or able to govern in any way and with a boy king, who's gonna rule the country? Which Lord? And would the others accept him? Unless Jon Snow steps forwards not everyone respects bastards, not even the NW, leave alone Lords) as King in the North, which he won't, there's no chance of the north being independent kingdom again.

Rickon's sister Sansa or one of the powerful lords would serve as regent

[David Selig]

Was ever a referendum about Aegon's conquest? No

Did I say there was? What's this got to do with what I wrote? You claimed that apparently people of the North wanted independence because Robb was proclaimed King, but all this proved was that the handful of most powerful nobles of the region wanted it. Nobody asked the rest of the population.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Did I say there was? What's this got to do with what I wrote? You claimed that apparently people of the North wanted independence because Robb was proclaimed King, but all this proved was that the handful of most powerful nobles of the region wanted it. Nobody asked the rest of the population.

Yes but the handull powerful lords aren't the players of the game? They lead and rule.

Yes but the handull powerful lords were able to create an army that won every battle. Am I wrong?

Also, if North is one indepented kingdom would be better for the smallfolks too.

[Barty]

The north will most probably end up independent with Rickon or maybe even Bran as King in the North and Jon will most probably end up on the iron throne ruling the other 6 kingdoms ensuring independence for the north as well as peace in westeros.

What was the point of introducing a free north if it was not going to affect the future - Robb could very well have gone on fighting against the Lannisters and dying at Frey hands without ever declaring himself King - GRRM introduced us to the concept of northern freedom for a reason.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Rickon's sister Sansa or one of the powerful lords would serve as regent

Even if, I truthfully and deeply dislike Sansa this could work.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

'The king in the north!'

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't think they'll bend their knees for an oathbreaker who let the Wildlings march straight through the Wall. But time will tell if he will take up Winterfell after having already rejected it once.

He is their oathbreaker who let the Wildlings march straight through the Wall. Not a stranger from the South and he looks like the Starks (pretty lame point but I thing that something lays there.)

[Gurkhal]

Will the lannisters be powerful without a figure head to lead them?

Not liklely. You need leadership in times like these and without that I'm afraid the Lannister power outside the Westerlands will crumble.

He is their oathbreaker who let the Wildlings march straight through the Wall. Not a stranger from the South and he looks like the Starks (pretty lame point but I thing that something lays there.)

Their oathbreakerto execute that is, and Stannis who stopped the Wildlings have done more for the North than Jon who let them all just walk in. Of course the situation is a little more complex but that is probably how it looks, or lat least how I would think it would look to me if I was a Northern nobleman.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Their oathbreaker to execute that is, and Stannis who stopped the Wildlings have done more for the North than Jon who let them all just walk in. Of course the situation is a little more complex but that is probably how it looks, or lat least how I would think it would look to me if I was a Northern nobleman.

You are correct but Jon didn't become oathbreaker at the end Bowen Marsh took care of this.

But how about this: Maybe lords look at Jon's decision about the wildlings as an honorable decision because even if it is wrong and illegal he broke the rules to save peoples lives. I think that this will make him likable.

[Alric Stark]

I think it depends on who is on the Throne. If it is someone who the Head of Household Stark is friendly with then the North will bend the Knee. So if it is Jon (assuming R+L=J and he abandons the Watch and isn't dead), or possibly Stannis then they will be Wardens. If it is Dany, Aegon, a Lannister, or a Tyrell then I see the King in the North, and Dorne as separate Kingdoms.

[Third World King]

They would bend their knees for Jon

The North will never bend their knees to Jon, while the trueborn sons and daughters of Eddard Stark are rumoured to be still alive. The highest position Jon can hope for is to be the castellan of Winterfall. Jon Snow is a bastard, after all.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

The North will never bend their knees to Jon, while the trueborn sons and daughters of Eddard Stark are rumoured to be still alive. The highest position Jon can hope for is to be the castellan of Winterfall. Jon is bastard, after all.

But he may be AA, thus a hero. After all Jon never hoped for a high position.

[Tagganaro]

Whether Jon is an oath breaker or not is debatable. What is not debatable is that a majority of Northern Lords are looking for a Stark leader to be back in power, that there is a will floating around that names Jon as successor to the beloved Young Wolf, that Jon looks very much like the beloved Northern Leader The Ned, that Jon has a huge awesome dire wolf that very much marks him as a Wolf and a Stark, and that Jon has been slowly building up some bases of support such as the wildlings, some loyal NW members, Karhold, and possibly the Northern Hill tribe lords that were at the Wall (was it Flint and Wulley?).

If you buy into the theory that there is some great Northern conspiracy afoot then that means there are open channels of communication between all the Houses so who knows?

Anyway, I think it would be a disgrace to any of the people who died fighting the Lannisters for their King in the North to suddenly cede back Northern independence and become subjects of the Crown yet again. The only person I could see that happening for is Stannis, who was originally going to be supported by The Ned and who has at least shown passing interest in helping out the North and done his duty as King in helping out the Night's Watch.

[Swordsaint]

Dragons or no dragons, the north will have a king whether he/she sits the Iron Throne, or in Winterfell...