Is Stannis sane?

[Stanmore]

I don't hate Stannis, but I don't really think he's achived very much over the course of the series. It seems to me that almost every success he's had during the series has been down to either Davos, Mel or Jon and he's personaly thrown away a lot of opportunities of his own.

Starting at the begining, Stannis gets a lot of praise for holding out at storms end, but I really don't think it's that deserved. Holding a well made fortification against a superior force isn't exactly uncommon. Storms end is Known to be the most fortifed castle in the 7 kingdoms so it's no real suprise that Mance was unable to storm it. However without Davos to run the blockade or Ned to lift the seige Stannis would have been forced to surrender or die of starvation. So to give Stannis credit for this as a major victory is a bit disingenuous.

Then we have Stannis sitting on the Information of Joffrey's parentage for months without doing anything to alert Robert to the fact, gather evidence or move against the Lannisters. While he sits on this information, his brother is murded and the Lannisters manage to gain control Kings landing... not exactly a succes story here either.

When he does make a move it's against his own brother rather than the Lannisters. He succeds in taking Storms end and acquiring much of Renly's army but only by allowing Mel to Kill an honrable man and his own brother. Stannis personaly doesn't lift a finger... Well he lifts one i suppose...

Then we come to his assult on kings' landing. Where he loses most of his fleet, much of his army and any real chance of securing the throne. One for the failure column.

Skipping over his brooding, setting his hand on fire and planning to murder his nephew., we get to his attack on the wall. Pretty succesful i'll admit. It was Davos's idea of course but I can't fault Stannis for this one. Probably his shining moment in the series.

Then we come to his Northen campaign. It was thanks to Jon he secured the Hill tribes so i can't give him any points there. He managed to retake deepwood motte from a handfull of Ironborn, not exacty impressive but a minor success. Then he led his army into a major blizzard and the the last we see him his army is starving to death.

Looking over all that I really can't see what all the fuss is about. Sure he's not managed to get himself killed like Ned or Robb, but are the Standards for success so low in Westeros that not dieing somehow counts as an achivement?

Edit: To adress the op, I don't think he's insane, (Though with his love of Burning people you can tell he's got Targaryen ancestors) I just don't think he's massivly competent.

[Dany4eva]

Not really. Young age(after 14 or so) in ASOIAF doesn't justifies mistakes or cruelty.

So mistakes are not allowed in asoiaf? Its normal for humans to err n learn from that. I do agree with cruelty but it did make for interesting reading. It should be noted stannis has imposed cruelty as well i.e. Davos and the burning of people and the allowing the use of magic to kill 'kings' i.e shadow babies n the leech thing(even if not the actual cause for the deaths)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

So mistakes are not allowed in asoiaf? Its normal for humans to err n learn from that. I do agree with cruelty but it did make for interesting reading. It should be noted stannis has imposed cruelty as well i.e. Davos and the burning of people and the allowing the use of magic to kill 'kings' i.e shadow babies n the leech thing(even if not the actual cause for the deaths)

I didn't say anything about mistakes. I said that the young age isn't something that justifies mistakes.

Yes he did but if we wanted to count Stannis' and Dany's victims...well there is no comparison.

[butterbumps!]

So mistakes are not allowed in asoiaf? Its normal for humans to err n learn from that. I do agree with cruelty but it did make for interesting reading. It should be noted stannis has imposed cruelty as well i.e. Davos and the burning of people and the allowing the use of magic to kill 'kings' i.e shadow babies n the leech thing(even if not the actual cause for the deaths)

I think that the issue is that we've seen Stannis improve tremendously from aCoK to that gift chapter- both in the fact that he relies on the advice of Mel and magic less and less, and has become increasingly open to sage counsel, whether from Davos or Jon. So in defense of Stannis, he's someone who has made mistakes or hard-to-defend decisions early on, but evolving to someone much more reasonable and competent, even a little bit flexible, and scores a lot of points imo for being on the right side of the conflicts he's been choosing to address (the Wall, the North). I think the transformation is something positive to give him credit for.

[Lothar Imbel]

He is Sheldon’s Westeros counterpart

Ermm... no. While I do believe that Stannis has aspergers, it's one thing to have it in a mild form like I think he does, it's another to be urmm... Sheldon Cooper.

[Dany4eva]

I didn't say anything about mistakes. I said that the young age isn't something that justifies mistakes.

Yes he did but if we wanted to count Stannis' and Dany's victims...well there is no comparison.

I don't mean to use age as an excuse but was trying to say, its good she is making the mistakes now n learns from them at an early age.

Stannis has fought a few wars(even tho he was brutally smashed in the blackwater attempt) so I'm sure he killed many in those.

[E-Ro]

Ermm... no. While I do believe that Stannis has aspergers, it's one thing to have it in a mild form like I think he does, it's another to be urmm... Sheldon Cooper.

Who is sheldon cooper? He must be pretty amazing to be compared to stannis.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Ermm... no. While I do believe that Stannis has aspergers, it's one thing to have it in a mild form like I think he does, it's another to be urmm... Sheldon Cooper.

Yes I was wrong.

He is Sherlock Holmes of Westeros:

Maester Cressen: My Lord! Listen to me, she...

Sherlock Holmes/Stannis: Yes, thank you for your input. (Shuts the door in Maester CressenAnderson's face)

[E-Ro]

Stannis has fought a few wars(even tho he was brutally smashed in the blackwater attempt) so I'm sure he killed many in those.

Killing someone in a battle is different from ordering people to be killed and tortured for no reason.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Who is sheldon cooper? He must be pretty amazing to be compared to stannis.

He is incredibly smart. A genius actually

[Dany4eva]

I think that the issue is that we've seen Stannis improve tremendously from aCoK to that gift chapter- both in the fact that he relies on the advice of Mel and magic less and less, and has become increasingly open to sage counsel, whether from Davos or Jon. So in defense of Stannis, he's someone who has made mistakes or hard-to-defend decisions early on, but evolving to someone much more reasonable and competent, even a little bit flexible, and scores a lot of points imo for being on the right side of the conflicts he's been choosing to address (the Wall, the North). I think the transformation is something positive to give him credit for.

I can see how u see it this way. But we cannot be sure that he will not use mel just as much as before. It may be that she had no way of helping him further at the moment. And still, to me, its others leading stannis and helping him make decisions. He is not capable on his own.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Killing someone in a battle is different from ordering people to be killed and tortured for no reason.

:agree: and she has killed or her decisions resulted to the death of many people.

[E-Ro]

And still, to me, its others leading stannis and helping him make decisions. He is not capable on his own.

A ruler that does not heed counsel is no ruler at all.

[Dany4eva]

Killing someone in a battle is different from ordering people to be killed and tortured for no reason.

Are u talking about the interrogation stuff to help figure out who the harpy peeps r? Cos how many were tortured? I'm sure it was just a few. I do agree tho, bad to torture.

[Dany4eva]

A ruler that does not heed counsel is no ruler at all.

A ruler is no ruler when the council devises everything for u.

[E-Ro]

Are u talking about the interrogation stuff to help figure out who the harpy peeps r? Cos how many were tortured? I'm sure it was just a few. I do agree tho, bad to torture.

And the hundred some innocent people she had crucified.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

A ruler is no ruler when the council devises everything for u.

But a ruler isn't a ruler when your beast do all your dirty job.

[E-Ro]

A ruler is no ruler when the council devises everything for u.

LOL what? Every leader needs counsil, Unless you are a horrible leader like dany that does whatever she wants. Why do you think the small council exists?

And can you put more effort into your spelling, please sometimes your posts are hard to read.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

And the hundred some innocent people she had crucified.

and those 3 ships she stole and the army of slaves she stole and those who died from the chaos she has created in 3 cities.

[butterbumps!]

I can see how u see it this way. But we cannot be sure that he will not use mel just as much as before. It may be that she had no way of helping him further at the moment. And still, to me, its others leading stannis and helping him make decisions. He is not capable on his own.

You're condemning him for things we haven't yet seen, despite the fact that we have seen his arc take a much more positive direction than he was introduced to us as. The fact that Stannis listens to good counsel is a decision-- he does not refuse to be educated/ guided by those he knows have more information than he does. He doesn't say things like "I'm blood of the horned stag, do not presume to teach me."