Is Stannis sane?

[Quentyn Baratheon]

He's deluded himself into thinking that he's AAR (by virtue of Mel), which might justify his apparent insanity.

He doesn't believe it one bit. It's a PR campaign which conveniently gather him forces and goes along with his "hate" of the Seven because of his parents death.

[dungodung]

Has he? He seems to treat this prophecy business as an afterthought. It's clearly not something he's too passionate about.

Indeed, but I think he's too proud not to give it some weight. It's his duty to take over the Iron Throne, because it's his by right, so he's trying to do everything necessary to take it. And those actions don't turn out to be the best ones, I think.

[The Sleeper]

The last line is simply, a lie. Did you disregard the entire last paragraph of my post where I mention all his accomplishments? He divided his forces and pincered the great Victarion Greyjoy at Fair Isle, summarily destroying the Iron Fleet. How is that notta coherent plan or strategy? You're seeing what you wanna see dude.

ETA: yes he saved the realm, if the Wildlings won the battle at the wall the Night's Watch would have been routed and there would be no one to guard the north against the others.

I concede, I may have been exaggerating. I'll grant you the victory over the Iron Fleet. However, it doesn't seem to me that holding Storm's End actually involved doing anything, we didn't see any of Stannis's troops during the attack on Deepwood Motte (no, I don't consider the Mountain Clans his troops) and beating the wildlings with armored knights does not seem much of an accomplishment. Frankly, I would entrust the defence of the realm to Mance over Stannis any day of the week.

The above is certainly one way of looking at Stannis' actions in the book series. The OP has expressed his opinions about Stannis' sanity, someone has responded, and the OP has disregarded the reply. I move that this thread be closed, we have gotten as far on the path of discussion as we are likely to get.

I did not disregard anything. I answered according to what I think.

[StannisBamfatheon]

I concede, I may have been exaggerating. I'll grant you the victory over the Iron Fleet. However, it doesn't seem to me that holding Storm's End actually involved doing anything, we didn't see any of Stannis's troops during the attack on Deepwood Motte (no, I don't consider the Mountain Clans his troops) and beating the wildlings with armored knights does not seem much of an accomplishment. Frankly, I would entrust the defence of the realm to Mance over Stannis any day of the week.

I did not disregard anything. I answered according to what I think.

This is silly man. You would entrust the defense of the realm to Mance rayder, a man who Stannis directly defeated in battle. Over Stannis? Come on. Not to mention Stannis was outnumbered atleast like 12-1 in the battle. There is no discounting his bravery. Mance has no notable victories in battle where has Stannis has a litany.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

"Sane" is basically code for stupid, and this is a thinly veiled hate thread.

Anyway he couldn't take the information to Robert because they did not like eachother and Robert would never have believed him. He would only see it as Stannis lobbying to become his heir. There was no love between the two of them.

He attacks Storm's End as a lure to parley with Renly, there he has him assassinated for treachery and absorbs his army afterwards. Not sure how you can see that as anything other than shrewd political move and successful gambit. No tangible benefit except like 60,000 troops. Get real dude.

He loses the battle of Blackwater, where he was on the precipace of victory, because the combined might of the Lannisters and Tyrells attacked him from the rear. Not sure what the hell that has to do with sanity.

Saving the Night's watch has made Stannis less relevant? He's gained a new power base, tripled the size of his army, and works to restore the beloved Starks to their seat of power, thus gaining him more support. What are you talking about? Going to the wall was the best thing that ever happened to him. He saved the realm in the process btw.

Stannis' smashed the Iron fleet at Fair Isle, held Storm's End, rescued the Night's watch, restored the Glover's to Deepwood Motte, was Master of ships for fifteen years and figured out the true lineage of the Baratheon children when everyone else either didn't or were sticking their heads in the sand. He is plenty sane.

This is all true. Stannis is one of the more strategic and for that sucessful characters on the series. Not to mention one of my favorites. He IS, however, slightly obsessive. This is not exactly 'insanity', but it's an issue he could solve with a professional. So is his desperate wish to be loved for his bigger brother and its ramifications on his current personality..

[Dany4eva]

I think he is sane. But he doesn't have a mind of his own. Easily manipulated and 1 dimensional. Can't believe people even discuss this character

[The Sleeper]

This is silly man. You would entrust the defense of the realm to Mance rayder, a man who Stannis directly defeated in battle. Over Stannis? Come on. Not to mention Stannis was outnumbered atleast like 12-1 in the battle. There is no discounting his bravery. Mance has no notable victories in battle where has Stannis has a litany.

Discounting the fact that Mance built his power base from scratch, while Stannis has trouble keeping the power base he inherited, Mance could not teach the wildlings how to smelt, nor could he have drilled battle tactics against armored opponents. Also, the wildlings were not so much an army as much as a mass migration. Even the combatants among them were never used ot fighting in anything remotely resembling formal battle.

[StannisBamfatheon]

I think he is sane. But he doesn't have a mind of his own. Easily manipulated and 1 dimensional. Can't believe people even discuss this character

Oh you. Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the entire series. We discuss him because he's a fascinating shade of grey, both capable of acts of villainy and heroism.

And Stannis fans outnumber Dany fans atleast 2-1 on here, maybe even 3-1. So it's more like Stanny4eva!

[Dany4eva]

Oh you. Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the entire series. We discuss him because he's a fascinating shade of grey, both capable of acts of villainy and heroism.

And Stannis fans outnumber Dany fans atleast 2-1 on here, maybe even 3-1. So it's more like Stanny4eva!

Just find it weird there is such discussion for such a minor character. Different strokes for different folks :love:

[The Sleeper]

He is not minor. Pretty much every major storyline revolves around him, one way or the other. He is definitely the most influential non-POV by far. I would go so far as to say he is up there with Dany or Jon. His impact is certainly more widespread than theirs. I'm not sure where Martin is going with him.

[The guy from the Vale]

Just find it weird there is such discussion for such a minor character. Different strokes for different folks :love:

Stannis a minor character? I would call him one of the major non-POV characters, at least on the same level of importance as Petyr, Varys, Tywin, Bloodraven, Walder Frey, or Roose, and probably more important than most of them.

[StannisBamfatheon]

Just find it weird there is such discussion for such a minor character. Different strokes for different folks :love:

You can't take anything this one says seriously at all, after Robb's death he is the single most important NON-POV character.

Serious mental gymnastics.

[Associate Maester]

I don't deny that I hate Stannis and I have listed some my reasons above. It is my honest opinion. I don't think he is stupid in the sense that his brain doesn't work. I think he has issues that prevent him from putting it to any use.

If he told Robert in a private conversation, even he might have been forced to wake up and smell the coffee. He could have tried telling it to other people who saw the kids daily. if he had planted some seeds it would have been much easier to dispute Joffrey's legitimacy later on. He told one person and when that person died, he ran.

He vehemently denies knowing any of this as well as his part in it. According to him he attacked Storm's End because Melissandre told him that she saw in the fires that he would gain the better part of his brothers army, which was roughly 20k cavalry by the way. He also denies Melissandre's part in it. This is from a man who would not call his brother "beloved" in a letter. In any case would you stake your life on plan that you didn't know how it was supposed to work?

After Renly was dead he commited his forces to besieging Storm's End for a week or two. Given how close a call Blackwater was, this cost him the victory.

Guerilla warfare is nothing new. Neither are traps in naval warfare. He had employed one in the past. And now he fell to one. Why wasn't he in charge of the ships. Why not Davos or Saan? All of the above considerably more experienced in naval warfare than Imry Florent.

In the North he has gained a ruined fort. And three thousand Northmen who drag him around, caring little for his survival or their own. He has made abundantly clear he doesn't give a fuck about the Starks. And what did he save the realm from? Mance? Mance is leading poorly armed refugees. The Others are still coming. And he has removed himself from his professed goal (being king) so far he is not even a blip on the radar.

He has not made a single coherrent plan of action or plotted any form of strategy and has never taken an initiative on his own.

So basically, you don't want actual discussion or differing viewpoints...you want another way to hate on a character you dislike. It is fine if you hate said characters and want to rag on them. However, at least be honest about it from the get-go.

[Dany4eva]

You can't take anything this one says seriously at all, after Robb's death he is the single most important NON-POV character.

Serious mental gymnastics.

I find most non-pov characters to be ones that just help drive the stories for the main characters. Now that stannis has brought mel to jon, he is basically useless now.

[The guy from the Vale]

You can't take anything this one says seriously at all, after Robb's death he is the single most important NON-POV character.

Serious mental gymnastics.

I think I could make a case for Varys or LF being just as important, but that's about it at this point.

I really think there are four major GoT players in the books: Stannis, Tywin, Varys and Baelish. Stannis and Tywin wield the most raw power, and both know how to do it; while Varys and Baelish are the two best undercover players, working more through schemes and political influence than through military and raw political power.

[Associate Maester]

Oh you. Stannis is one of the most interesting characters in the entire series. We discuss him because he's a fascinating shade of grey, both capable of acts of villainy and heroism.

And Stannis fans outnumber Dany fans atleast 2-1 on here, maybe even 3-1. So it's more like Stanny4eva!

I think he is sane. But he doesn't have a mind of his own. Easily manipulated and 1 dimensional. Can't believe people even discuss this character

Yes, because he was clearly so eager to burn Edric. I mean he didn't argue with Mel at all pointing out "2 kings is not 3" etc.

[Lothar Imbel]

This is silly man. You would entrust the defense of the realm to Mance rayder, a man who Stannis directly defeated in battle. Over Stannis? Come on. Not to mention Stannis was outnumbered atleast like 12-1 in the battle. There is no discounting his bravery. Mance has no notable victories in battle where has Stannis has a litany.

"I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers." From the man himself :)

[The Sleeper]

So basically, you don't want actual discussion or differing viewpoints...you want another way to hate on a character you dislike. It is fine if you hate said characters and want to rag on them. However, at least be honest about it from the get-go.

Where did you gather that I don't want an honest discussion. Yes, I don't like Stannis. If you asked to describe his character, I would call him an annoying wanker. It's my prerogative. Even so, I listed what seem to me logical arguments regarding the sense of his actions because I wanted to have a sober discussion about his rationale, since he is a major part of the story. Which is why, I tried to keep my posts as neutral as possible. So,with all the objecitvity I can muster Stannis's actions don't make sense to me nor as a strategic plan to achieve a certain goal, whatever that may be, neither as a consistent attitude and set of beliefs. I have listed the reasons why on my posts.

[Lady of Long Lake]

I find most non-pov characters to be ones that just help drive the stories for the main characters. Now that stannis has brought mel to jon, he is basically useless now.

Stannis is far from done. Do you see any Starks in Winterfell? His badassery is just beginning. Go read the preview chapter from Winds of Winter on George's home page! Stannis shines brightest when he is away from Melisandre :leer:

OP,

Don't worry why folks like Stannis so much! These books are full of characters that people feel unusually strongly about, both positive and negative. There are very few characters we feel ambivalent about, if you think about it! I like the guy because he's never fit in anywhere in his life. Jon, Arya, Tyrion and Stannis are my favorites because I'm drawn to the outcasts and misfits.

[Dany4eva]

Stannis is far from done. Do you see any Starks in Winterfell? His badassery is just beginning. Go read the preview chapter from Winds of Winter on George's home page! Stannis shines brightest when he is away from Melisandre :leer:

OP,

Don't worry why folks like Stannis so much! These books are full of characters that people feel unusually strongly about, both positive and negative. There are very few characters we feel ambivalent about, if you think about it! I like the guy because he's never fit in anywhere in his life. Jon, Arya, Tyrion and Stannis are my favorites because I'm drawn to the outcasts and misfits.

Preview chapter!?!? Oh my drowned god I'm so behind in the news. Link pls! :love: