The Iron Bank - bang for your buck

[Fire Eater]

Totally disagree. The Lord of Casterly Rock has absolute power over the Westerlands. Just like the Lord of Winterfell has absolute power over the North.

I am not aware of any of the mines being owned by other Houses in the Westerlands, as e.g. the silver mines in the White Harbor area are owned by Lord Manderly. My understanding is that House Lannister directly owns the gold mines and can do with it whatever they please.

The Reynes originally were the primary owners of their gold mines until Tywin exterminated that house, but the Lannisters always got a piece of the action through the tithe the Reynes submitted to their liege lords. This could be the same scenarion with Rolph Spicer for what is like to be his brief reign as Lord of Castamere.

P.S. The Iron Bank isn't the only place in Braavos where you get bang for your buck so does the Happy Port.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Didn't Jon Snow that Stannis might have just won the war?

When Cersei made her little speach, she put an end any chance that they would treat with her. She stopped payment, she then mocked the IB man that went to try to fix things between them. IB stop making loans to the 7K.

The IB has given Stannis a blank check, but he had to promice to pay Roberts dept as well. The IB will do what every it has to do (even things it won't get paid back for) to put Stannis on the throne( once the argeement reaches Bravos, which is as just as important).

[Free Northman]

Didn't Jon Snow that Stannis might have just won the war?

When Cersei made her little speach, she put an end any chance that they would treat with her. She stopped payment, she then mocked the IB man that went to try to fix things between them. IB stop making loans to the 7K.

The IB has given Stannis a blank check, but he had to promice to pay Roberts dept as well. The IB will do what every it has to do (even things it won't get paid back for) to put Stannis on the throne( once the argeement reaches Bravos, which is as just as important).

The casual way in which Jon said Stannis might just have won the war, pretty much guarantees that Martin is not going to let it turn out that smoothly.

More likely, Stannis is gonna die, and Stannis's subsitute (Jon Snow?) will be the one to get the Iron Bank's backing.

[The Sunset King]

Jon seems have a better grasp of the Iron Bank's history and nature than Cersei. Given how ardently Jon's hatred of the Lannisters came out when he talked to Samwell about Stannis's campaign, it is easy to see why he was delighted about the appearance of the banker. The support of the Iron Bank would be a major shift in the balance of power and pose a severely dangerous threat to the Iron Throne. It is possible that by the time Kevan was contemplating treating with the Iron Bank again it was too late for that option to work, even if someone far more rational that Cersei had presented the throne's case while in Braavos.

[Baratheon Crossing]

Alright the first few posts mentioned the Iron Bank being in league with the Faceless Men. ie:

I think the Iron bank is quietly the true ruling power of Braavos, and are given deep discounts to use the services of the Faceless Men.

The Iron Bank will do whatever needs to be done to both maintain its ruthless reputation and get paid.

I agree with you. In order to make Stannis the rightful king, they have to knock off Tommen. Then Robert has no "legit" heirs and the crown goes to his brother, except in Dorne where Myrcella inherits, except that the Dornish may support Dany or Aegon. It's a real clusterf**k.

But I think the Iron Bank is linked to the FM. If that's the case then Stannis has a very powerful ally... if he survives winter and the Boltons.

Are these just suspsicions or are there quotes supporting this. If it is just a suspicion I would have to disagree.

The only link between the two is that they are both located in Braavos. Arya makes no mention of the Iron Bank with her time in the temple of the many faced god, and neither does the kindly man, the waif or any of the other servants IIRC

Yes the Iron Bank has a shit ton of money so hiring an assassin shouldn't really be a problem, but the price for a FM service seems to require a bit more than just throwing a bunch of coins at them. From the wiki:

The price is always high or dear, but within the means of the person if they are willing to make the sacrifice. The cost of their services depends on the prominence and security of the target. When the small council discuss the possibility of hiring a Faceless Man to kill Daenerys Targaryen, Petyr Baelish states that the council could hire an army of sellswords for half the price that the Faceless Men would charge for a merchant, and that killing a princess would be far more expensive.^[2] In A Dance with Dragons, we learn that it could be someone's income or a child.

I don't think the IB would be willing to make such a sacrifice.

[Silent_Hero]

Alright the first few posts mentioned the Iron Bank being in league with the Faceless Men. ie:

Are these just suspsicions or are there quotes supporting this. If it is just a suspicion I would have to disagree.

The only link between the two is that they are both located in Braavos. Arya makes no mention of the Iron Bank with her time in the temple of the many faced god, and neither does the kindly man, the waif or any of the other servants IIRC

Yes the Iron Bank has a shit ton of money so hiring an assassin shouldn't really be a problem, but the price for a FM service seems to require a bit more than just throwing a bunch of coins at them. From the wiki:

The price is always high or dear, but within the means of the person if they are willing to make the sacrifice. The cost of their services depends on the prominence and security of the target. When the small council discuss the possibility of hiring a Faceless Man to kill Daenerys Targaryen, Petyr Baelish states that the council could hire an army of sellswords for half the price that the Faceless Men would charge for a merchant, and that killing a princess would be far more expensive.^[2] In A Dance with Dragons, we learn that it could be someone's income or a child.

I don't think the IB would be willing to make such a sacrifice.

FM get paid huge amount of money to kill people where exactly woul they put their money? A bank.

Iron Bank and FM are linked it's a bit obivious and hard not from them to be linked somehow or even be the same organization. The iron bank can make princes and claimants appear from no where but they can also with help of FM make princes disappear.

[SerWilliam]

FM get paid huge amount of money to kill people where exactly woul they put their money? A bank.

Iron Bank and FM are linked it's a bit obivious and hard not from them to be linked somehow or even be the same organization. The iron bank can make princes and claimants appear from no where but they can also with help of FM make princes disappear.

I 100% agree. No proof, but I think there is a very close link to these organizations. And the Arya chapters can't easily reveal a link, as she is a lowly apprentice in the house that masters deception.

[Crystal Grower]

The Faceless Men likely put their enormous wealth into an Iron Bank account, and it's possible that the Faceless Men is the majority stockholder of the Iron Bank through either the sheer size of their account or because they provided the seed money to startup the Iron Bank. However, this implies the Faceless Men can dictate the Iron Bank's policy--not the other way around as the Iron Bank would be the subservient party. So it's doubtful that the Faceless Men would kill for the Iron Bank at favorable prices unless they really care about their investments.

[Melifeather]

The Iron Bank will do whatever it can do to recover its money. It's only interest in who rules is whether or not it benefits them financially.

The Iron Bank will be behind Tommen and Myrcella's deaths and it will be because Cersei didn't repay them.

The Iron Bank will support Stannis in every way, because they believe he will get them their money, and I never thought about this before, but the supposed pink letter from the Bastard of Bolton may have been their idea with Stannis carrying the idea out.

[Independent George]

The Iron Bank's power in Westeros goes beyond just financing Stannis' armies. What makes the Lannister position so tenuous right now is that:

1. The Westeros economy does not have much in the way of credit markets or hard currency in circulation.

2. If Westeros cannot make their payments to the iron bank, then they need to find other lenders to cover their short-term costs.

3. The Iron Bank provides supplies the liquidity needed for those smaller lenders (such as the Bank of Myr) to operate. As a result, they can force those lenders to freeze their loans to Westeros until payments to the Iron Bank have resumed.

4. They (apparently) have enough reserves to both cover nonpayment by King's Landing AND issue further loans to Stannis and the Night's Watch.

5. The only way for the Lannisters to finance their payments to the Iron throne is to cease payments to themselves (which Kevan wouldn't even countenance).

What I wonder about is what this means for Littlefinger's plans. He knows the fiscal situation probably better than anyone, and he seems to be the only person in Westeros who understands the difference between wealth and capital.

[Three_eyed_Bro]

its gonna be nice to see "a lannister always pays his debts" come full circle.

built upon mountains of gold and having unlimited resources> revenging (percieved) wrongs done upon them> being revenged UPON> losing the vast majority of their wealth through mismanagement and defaulted loans.

Seriously, if Tyrion, or someone else, ends up at casterly rock they will have to mortgage it faster than the HammerTime mansion

[aryagonnakill]

The coin Jaqen gives arya is made of Iron, this is another thing that implies the connection.

[SerLoin]

The Faceless Men likely put their enormous wealth into an Iron Bank account, and it's possible that the Faceless Men is the majority stockholder of the Iron Bank through either the sheer size of their account or because they provided the seed money to startup the Iron Bank. However, this implies the Faceless Men can dictate the Iron Bank's policy--not the other way around as the Iron Bank would be the subservient party. So it's doubtful that the Faceless Men would kill for the Iron Bank at favorable prices unless they really care about their investments.

I think this is as close as we'll get to an answer until the rest of the books are out.

Am I remembering correctly that the founding people of Braavos were all freed slaves from valyria?

I'm not so sure about the FM dictating to the IB its probably more of a symbiosis.

[Black Wolf Smith]

What I wonder about is what this means for Littlefinger's plans. He knows the fiscal situation probably better than anyone, and he seems to be the only person in Westeros who understands the difference between wealth and capital.

Yes he does, after years of stealling from it every where he could, he should.

[ab aeterno]

Yes he does, after years of stealling from it every where he could, he should.

It would fit in very well with his decision to head to the Eyrie at the point he does. I know he also needs to get Sansa away from Tyrion and the Lannisters as well, but they are now holed up on the most impregnable caste in Westeros, with a full and well fed army and based upon the talk of the Vale Knights and the revelations about Dorne's actual strength, it sounds like they have at the very least a comparable strength to Dorne. You would also imagine that the Iron Bank has a good relationship with LF as he was the one who arranged all the loans for King Robert while the Crown was actually paying its debts. That could put him in an interesting position if Stannis fails or if the Bank wants to recoup more of its old loans. There would be no reason for them to view him as an enemy.

[Joanna vander Poele]

Always thought the Iron Bank and the Faceless Men were two sides of the same coin. Not just associated; literally the same organisation. The FM get paid stupid amounts of money for their work, but it's not apparent what they do with it. And the Bank still seems to have an endless supply of money to lend to Stannis even after loaning the Iron Throne so much? The issue seems to be repayment rather than the Bank's own funds dwindling. The FM supplies the Bank's money and acts last resort enforcers; the Bank loans money and exudes dangerous Braavosi influence over the thrones of kings...

I will be saying I told you so in about ten years :P

[MrsManderly]

Always thought the Iron Bank and the Faceless Men were two sides of the same coin. Not just associated; literally the same organisation. The FM get paid stupid amounts of money for their work, but it's not apparent what they do with it. And the Bank still seems to have an endless supply of money to lend to Stannis even after loaning the Iron Throne so much? The issue seems to be repayment rather than the Bank's own funds dwindling. The FM supplies the Bank's money and acts last resort enforcers; the Bank loans money and exudes dangerous Braavosi influence over the thrones of kings...

I will be saying I told you so in about ten years :P

Agreed.

Which makes one think that a neat way to tie several plotlines together would be for the FM to dispatch our friend Arya to get rid of Cersei as the Lannister responsible for defaulting on IB debt. That would both be a sensible way to bring Arya back to Westeros and have a nice bittersweet irony in allowing her to off another one from her list.

Except for that FM rule about not killing people you know... I sometimes wonder why GRRM put that one in!

[ab aeterno]

I will be saying I told you so in about ten years :P

Be optimistic! You'll be telling us "I told you so," in about two years. :)

[Quentyn Baratheon]

Agreed.

Which makes one think that a neat way to tie several plotlines together would be for the FM to dispatch our friend Arya to get rid of Cersei as the Lannister responsible for defaulting on IB debt. That would both be a sensible way to bring Arya back to Westeros and have a nice bittersweet irony in allowing her to off another one from her list.

Except for that FM rule about not killing people you know... I sometimes wonder why GRRM put that one in!

Remeber the sacred, unviolable Night's watch vows? he's not without bending the plot when it suit.

[Shabadoo]

Except for that FM rule about not killing people you know... I sometimes wonder why GRRM put that one in!

I always thought that this rule was more tied to the notion that the Faceless Men really do count loss of personal identity as a part of initiation and to a lesser extent, to insure that the identities they assume when preforming assassinations could in no way be linked to the target.