U.S. Politics - GOP and women

[Ser Greguh]

The Republicans are most decidedly not throwing the election. They've spent the past several years trying to sink the ship so that they can kill the captain. They fucking hate Obama. They've spent way too much political capital on weakening his administration to consciously throw in the towel under any circumstances. They legitimately fear the prospect of another 4 years of Obama in the WH, largely because of the SCOTUS implications, I'd guess.

Their problem is that their base is fucking crazy and they can't carry that base without that base making national news out of issues that are complete anathema to moderates. Birth control is one, no-abortion-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest is another. The mileage that the left can get out of those positions (I wish I'd had a counter on how many times Rachel Maddow used the phrase "Government forcing rape victims to give birth to their rapists' children" in tonight's show, but it was a lot) is phenomenal. The Roves/Norquists aren't stupid, and know this, but they also know that they can't win a national election by appealing to moderates alone, as McCain so aggressively proved in '08 (you just can't carry the evangelical vote in swing states when the prominent crazies are calling you a RINO).

Despite his protestations of being "severely conservative", even Romney (the perfect un-candidate) is in danger of falling into this trap, which is why the Paul Ryan choice is smart; find someone whose actual positions are every bit as fucking nuts as the Santorum/Huckabee/Akins of the world but who is enough of a slickster not to make too much of a point of it. It appeals to the far right who have no trouble believing his hate-cred is is genuine, and to moderates who buy into the slickster image to interpret a wink-wink-nudge-nudge in his very being. So when someone like Akin runs his crazy mouth, they have no problem throwing him under the bus even as he's just using awkward language and junk science to describe what has quietly been the RNC official position on abortion for decades.

It's a good thing that it's hard to maintain that duality in the era of cable news and youtube, and a bad thing that more people don't pay attention to it.

[The Anti-Targ]

Does anyone feel like the GOP is kind of trying to throw this election? I mean first and foremost they are doing everything possible to not get the women votes. I doubt they have the Latino or black community behind them either. I'd be shocked if the youth vote is heavily in their favor.

I'm just speculating here.

It's a voter suppression experiment. If you alienate every demographic other than white heterosexual males can you still suppress enough votes to win?

[The Ghost of Winter]

It's a voter suppression experiment. If you alienate every demographic other than white heterosexual males can you still suppress enough votes to win?

That's an excellent point. Alienate certain groups except white Christian males, and even throw in real efforts to suppress votes in certain swing states and possibly win.

I'm hoping people acknowledge these efforts, and make sure to get their voices heard. Although I may be putting far too much faith in humanity by hoping such..

[Sci-2]

Granted, but even taking into account that they may very well do everything in their power to quench the minority vote, why are women voting for these people? This is what has always puzzled me.

The support for abortion isn't consistent among women and young people.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

11 reasons why Todd Akin is sticking in the race, including my favorite from a senior Republican official: "It's hard to reason with an idiot."

[Ser Greguh]

Women exist who think that birth control is just for slutty sluts and that rape victims had it coming by wearing a short skirt. Males don't have a monopoly on repugnance, just a statistical edge.

[The Ghost of Winter]

11 reasons why Todd Akin is sticking in the race, including my favorite from a senior Republican official: "It's hard to reason with an idiot."

I find it heart warming that both democrats and republicans are disgusted with this moron.

I mean hurray some can agree on something, whether it be major or minor in a long time!

[Ser Greguh]

I find it heart warming that both democrats and republicans are disgusted with this moron.

I mean hurray some can agree on something, whether it be major or minor in a long time!

It can't be stated enough that Akin was just repeating the official GOP position (and adding some crazy fluff on stop of it), and that the GOP across the country has trying to push anti-abortion legislation that doesn't include exceptions for rape & incest for years. Their throwing him under the bus is a cynical act that reflects that he wasn't their favored candidate for the senate seat to begin with, and because his overt craziness can be linked to (and can substantially hurt) the Presidential ticket via his chumminess with Paul Ryan in the house and their co-sponsorship of aggressively anti-woman legislation. It's political distancing, not philosophical or moral objection to his repugnance.

[The Ghost of Winter]

It can't be stated enough that Akin was just repeating the official GOP position (and adding some crazy fluff on stop of it), and that the GOP across the country has trying to push anti-abortion legislation that doesn't include exceptions for rape & incest for years. Their throwing him under the bus is a cynical act that reflects that he wasn't their favored candidate for the senate seat to begin with, and because his overt craziness can be linked to (and can substantially hurt) the Presidential ticket via his chumminess with Paul Ryan in the house and their co-sponsorship of aggressively anti-woman legislation. It's political distancing, not philosophical or moral objection to his repugnance.

Good point, I'm not thinking things through tonight.

[Lightning Lord]

That's an excellent point. Alienate certain groups except white Christian males, and even throw in real efforts to suppress votes in certain swing states and possibly win.

I'm hoping people acknowledge these efforts, and make sure to get their voices heard. Although I may be putting far too much faith in humanity by hoping such..

Too many people don't acknowledge those efforts. A friend of mine who is really quite bright, and quite liberal, and a bit of a feminist, was telling me that she fully supports voter ID laws, because she's adamantly opposed to non-citizens getting a vote. She doesn't watch The Daily Show, maybe doesn't read many newspapers or stories, but what she had heard was that voter fraud was a really big deal. I tried to explain to her that it was a tiny percentage, versus the comparatively massive number that face disenfranchisement. She had no idea, had not heard any of that, had only heard the scary talking point about voter fraud. She's working on a PhD in Washington DC, but had no clue. A lot of people don't pay attention.

[Merentha]

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html "The only moral abortion is my abortion" should offer some insight into the women who vote for Republicans. And there are the ones that don't pay attention, don't believe it, don't care, or really just don't think about it. They've voted for republicans for years and don't see any reason to change now.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I wonder how much of a difference the voter ID requirements and similar shenanigans will really have on the election. After all, the people most likely to need early voting or to lack voter ID are the poor, college students, the infirm... people who you wouldn't expect to vote in huge numbers anyway. In theory, the PA law affects up to nine percent of registered voters, but in reality some of those people will get ID before the election (local groups in PA are offering free rides to seniors to get state ID) and a much larger number probably wouldn't have voted anyway. I oppose the law, and others like it, but I think its effect can easily be overstated.

Read this essay and thank your humble narrator for posting it.

I would thank you, had I not posted a link to that essay on this thread not two hours ago. :P

[1918me]

http://mypage.direct...anti-tales.html "The only moral abortion is my abortion" should offer some insight into the women who vote for Republicans. And there are the ones that don't pay attention, don't believe it, don't care, or really just don't think about it. They've voted for republicans for years and don't see any reason to change now.

Wow. I guess it's just because I've never met many Republican women that it seems such a strange concept to me.

[Lightning Lord]

Dunno if this has done the rounds here. http://www.isidewith.com

I got 97% Jill Stein, 89% Barack Obama, 76% Stewart Alexander. 11% for Romney, which is a little scary.

Who is Stewart Alexander?

ETA: Socialist. I always knew I was a socialist. I suspect others know as well. *ducks Bachmann*

[The Ghost of Winter]

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html "The only moral abortion is my abortion" should offer some insight into the women who vote for Republicans. And there are the ones that don't pay attention, don't believe it, don't care, or really just don't think about it. They've voted for republicans for years and don't see any reason to change now.

I've noticed trends like that with some who support the GOP.

My sister is one of them. Instead of abortion, she has a mindset about things like Unemployment checks and Medicaid. "No one should have these things but me" kind of thing.

It makes no sense. Are they insanely selfish, or what?

[The Ghost of Winter]

Well!*

*I posted it shortly after it aired, but I'm just trying to drive the message home

ETA: Who the fuck is Jill Stein and why do all of us like her so much?

No clue, lol. But I took that test the other day and Stein placed second for me. Who is this woman?! :o

[Lightning Lord]

Green Party. I actually knew her before that quiz, but only because I've been intending to vote Green for months now.

[Merentha]

I've noticed trends like that with some who support the GOP.

My sister is one of them. Instead of abortion, she has a mindset about things like Unemployment checks and Medicaid. "No one should have these things but me" kind of thing.

It makes no sense. Are they insanely selfish, or what?

Just world fallacy combined with attribution error. Good things happen to good people, and bad things don't. The second is: when I'm being nasty, its because of my bad day, or my meds, or something mitigating, while when someone else is being nasty, it is because they are a bad person. So, the other women in the waiting room are clearly sluts, or deserved it, or are doing it for convenience, but I deserve an abortion because the condom broke and I'm a good person. I'm on welfare because I paid into the system for years and am just using it to get back on my feet, but everyone else is just a lazy slob abusing the system. They're bad people and so they must have deserved it, but I am a good person so I can't deserve this bad thing.

[Paladin of Ice]

This year is the ultimate "all-in" for the GOP. They are running on an agenda that could never be a winner if they weren't running against a guy named Barack Hussein Obama who presided over a sluggish recovery. The future is against their current platform, and they know it, so they are praying (literally, to God) that they can win this year and implement the most conservative agenda possible.

This is the short answer to whether the Republicans are throwing the election. Also, if Democrats/liberals were ever actually effective or could communicate a firm message instead of coming off as spineless, touchy feely losers, I think they would be taking elections like this much more easily.

But yeah, what's happening with Republicans is the end result of becoming more desperate because the long term seems to be against you, so you become more strident in your desire to hold onto the present or take things into the past, or just how you think the ideal past must have been.

And since everyone else is doing the poll thing:

Obama: 89%

Stein: 89%

Alexander: 73%

Paul: 53%

Romney: 13%

My biggest surprise is Ron Paul and in the section that compares me to the various parties, where I apparently agree 39% of the time with the Libertarian Party. I have a special loathing for Libertarian economics and most of their social visions, although there is a fair amount of overlap in that I do despise the PATRIOT Act, Gitmo/secret detention centers/military tribunals, support some drug legalization, etc.

[The Ghost of Winter]

Just world fallacy combined with attribution error. Good things happen to good people, and bad things don't. The second is: when I'm being nasty, its because of my bad day, or my meds, or something mitigating, while when someone else is being nasty, it is because they are a bad person. So, the other women in the waiting room are clearly sluts, or deserved it, or are doing it for convenience, but I deserve an abortion because the condom broke and I'm a good person. I'm on welfare because I paid into the system for years and am just using it to get back on my feet, but everyone else is just a lazy slob abusing the system. They're bad people and so they must have deserved it, but I am a good person so I can't deserve this bad thing.

Yeah nothing happens to me, everything I do is acceptable. But hey you're an evil communist if you do something my morals don't align with. How dare you!