Who is the Harpy?

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

I think Skakhaz is one of the few free Mereenese who actually supports Dany. He wants to take hostages and kill nobles because he realizes (unlike Dany) that this is what Dany has to do to rule Mereen. She's trying to completley change the culture and social structure of the city and the only way she can do this is by crushing the nobles. Skahkhaz understands this because he knows Mereen in a way that Dany does not. It seems like the Shavepate really does hate slavery and thinks Dany is a good thing for Mereen. so i think he's not the Harpy, that's probably the Green Grace

What a sweet man he is

[Kindly_Man]

I think its the green grace, that woman's cake was probably the first way they were going to poison Dany.

[Ser Lepus]

None of them is to be trusted: Galazza Galore, Reznak, Shavepate, all of them are either opportunists trying to get a slice of the cake or Sons of the Harpy.

Galazza and Reznak are obviously on the old nobility camp; the marriage to Hizdahr was their idea. Even if they aren't part of the organization themselves, they are exchanging information and taking orders from them.

Shavepate could be a Son of the Harpy trying very hard to look like a supporter of Dany, an opportunist turncloak who has sided with Dany too openly and knows he's dead if she loses, or he could be a vengeful man with a vendetta to fulfill against the rest of the meerenese nobility. We need to know his past, and if there isn't a reason to justify his hatred of his own social class, I say he is a Son of the Harpy.

I don't think Hizdahr is the Harpy; his power depends on Dany's, he needs her to be king. On the other hand, he could be a pawn of the Harpy.

[The Lost Lord]

The Green Grace is the Harpy. But she stopped the killings when Dany agreed to share power by marrying Hizdahr and did actually want to make things work in a peaceful way. It was Shavepate (who Hizdahr fired) who poisoned the locusts to try to break the peace. He manipulated Barristan into thinking it was the Harpy, deposing the innocent Hizdahr, and breaking the agreement with the Harpy. Far from being Littlefinger-esque in the final chapter, the Green Grace is actually being totally honest and channeling Martin's own views on Barristan's blunders:

"The peace that we worked so hard to forge flutters like a leaf in an autumn wind. These are dire days… [Hizdahr] gave her peace… Do not cast it away, ser, I beg you. Peace is the pearl beyond price. Hizdahr is of Loraq. Never would he soil his hands with poison. He is innocent."

[Manderly Chef]

I'm not saying the Shavepate is some kind of idealist saint. He could be an idealist but I don't think we know enough about him to say for sure, but it is one possible motive. he's also clearly after power in Dany's new regime. i don't think he can be the harpy because he's killed or tortured too many sons of the harpy sympathizers for the nobles to support him once Dany leaves Mereen. another reason is that he gave Dany good advice. if Dany had marched to astapor and defeated the yunkish army, taken hostages from the nobles, broken the nobles' power and not married Hizidahr, she would not be under siege at the end of ADWD. Dany was trying to preserve the peace by marrying Hizidahr but she just ended up delaying the inevitable war. an earlier start to the war would have put Dany in a much stronger position. The Shavepate's clearly not a sweet man. he's much more ruthless than Dany but he seems like a genuine supporter. i put the part in about hating slavery because i remember him telling barristan he was scared of the yunkish bringing slavery back to mereen. However I don't have the book in front of me so I don't know the exact details of that scene

[The BlackBear]

What a sweet man he is

The same could be said of Tywin, but the truth is he'd make a bloody good leader.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I'm not saying the Shavepate is some kind of idealist saint. He could be an idealist but I don't think we know enough about him to say for sure, but it is one possible motive. he's also clearly after power in Dany's new regime. i don't think he can be the harpy because he's killed or tortured too many sons of the harpy sympathizers for the nobles to support him once Dany leaves Mereen. another reason is that he gave Dany good advice. if Dany had marched to astapor and defeated the yunkish army, taken hostages from the nobles, broken the nobles' power and not married Hizidahr, she would not be under siege at the end of ADWD. Dany was trying to preserve the peace by marrying Hizidahr but she just ended up delaying the inevitable war. an earlier start to the war would have put Dany in a much stronger position. The Shavepate's clearly not a sweet man. he's much more ruthless than Dany but he seems like a genuine supporter. i put the part in about hating slavery because i remember him telling barristan he was scared of the yunkish bringing slavery back to mereen. However I don't have the book in front of me so I don't know the exact details of that scene

He is scared of the Yunkai because they would clap his family in chains. He himself would either fall in battle or be worse off.

[Net-Viper X]

Do we know for sure the Shavepate isn't phony? It seems possible that his entire "turn traitor and join Dany" thing could be an act planned by the Harpies so they would have an inside man Dany never suspects. While I think its more likely that he is using Dany as a means to put himself in a better position of power within the new regime, it could be he has been loyal to the old regime all along and his new loyalty is just an act.

Whichever it is I don't trust him any more than I trust the other bastards in Meereen. Oddly enough, King Jizzdahr himself will probably turn out to be the one guy thats genuine and not involved in the plot, while all the other supposed loyalists to Dany are traitors waiting for their new tube of KY jelly to arrive so they can "ram it in".

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

The same could be said of Tywin, but the truth is he'd make a bloody good leader.

There are more than few obvious differences between Tywin and Shavepate:

"I told your father I would forage for him, but he refused me. Some tasks are fit for lions, he said, but foraging is best left for goats and dogs."

"Goats and dogs" is the category where Shavepate belongs.

[The BlackBear]

There are more than few obvious differences between Tywin and Shavepate:

"I told your father I would forage for him, but he refused me. Some tasks are fit for lions, he said, but foraging is best left for goats and dogs."

"Goats and dogs" is the category where Shavepate belongs.

Yes but he realises he has to be the brute behind the regime, he doesn't have the same pedigree as Tywin.

My reference was more seeing what has to be done, and not shying away from it. i.e killing the baby Targs.

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

Yes but he realises he has to be the brute behind the regime, he doesn't have the same pedigree as Tywin.

My reference was more seeing what has to be done, and not shying away from it. i.e killing the baby Targs.

unlike Tywin Shavepate doesn't seem to grasp political situation in Mereen entirely, he is reckless and bloodthirsty. Tywin although cruel and vengeful is calm and calculating.

[LuisDantas]

You give Tywin a lot of credit. And it is not at all clear that the Shavepate wants peace or is loyal to Daenerys.

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

You give Tywin a lot of credit. And it is not at all clear that the Shavepate wants peace or is loyal to Daenerys.

No, I don't. I really don't.

He doesn't want peace, that's for sure.

[Manderly Chef]

I agree. He doesn't want peace because he knows it's impossible. He wants to win. So in that way he is sort of like Tywin while Dany is acting like Tytos in ADWD. The big difference between them is that Tywin's use of violence is usually very calculated, he's not bloodthirsty or cruel except when he thinks family honor is at stake. The Shavepate has some personal emotional motive that's driving him

[jarl the climber]

The Green Grace is the Harpy. But she stopped the killings when Dany agreed to share power by marrying Hizdahr and did actually want to make things work in a peaceful way. It was Shavepate (who Hizdahr fired) who poisoned the locusts to try to break the peace. He manipulated Barristan into thinking it was the Harpy, deposing the innocent Hizdahr, and breaking the agreement with the Harpy. Far from being Littlefinger-esque in the final chapter, the Green Grace is actually being totally honest and channeling Martin's own views on Barristan's blunders:

I've come to the same conclusion. I think the Shavepate was actually trying to poison Hizadar and not Dany. There is a fued between the Loraq and the Khandaq clans. Killing Hizadar would have been a blow to the peace. If you read Danys chapters carefuly she never eats sweets like honeyed locusts. She like olives, mostly she eats pork, ham as her meat, and if she wants something sweet raisins, figs or pears. She is not a heavy drinker maybe a glass of wine. Probaly Hizadar was fond of these but in the excitement of the moment he forgot his appetite, and Belwas wolfed them down. After that the Yunkish Lords were all in the city and could have been arrested probaly the mercenary captians as well. The Yunkish had hostage but they were either Hizadars relatives or people the Shavepate did not care about. Thats my theory at this point. I do not think the Shavepate is the harpy, his family are long time dissedents in Mereen and they probaly benefited more by joining Dany than they lost by having to free their slaves.

[Tini]

Probaly Hizadar was fond of these but in the excitement of the moment he forgot his appetite, and Belwas wolfed them down.

But the excitement of the moment was not enough to make him forget putting pressure on Dany to try them out. Why was he so extremely persistent about it?

The Shavepate most likely knew more about Dany's eating habits than Hizdahr did. If it was the Shavepate who poisoned the locusts, they were probably targeted at Hizdahr. But then the Shavepate still risked Dany poisoning herself on a whim, by trying out the locusts to please her husband.

I still think Hizdahr planned the poison plot, and that the Harpy was not involved in it.

Hizdahr married Dany to acquire power over Mereen. He probably believed that being her widower would be enough to keep that power. Prudence would seem to dictate that he wait until Dany gave birth to their a child. But I don't consider him prudent, or intelligent enough, for that sort of reasoning, and just stupid enough to deviate from the Harpy's carefully devised plans. If he even knew what those plans were - it is just as possible that the Harpy let him believe that it was his own careful planning that led to his marriage.

[Arataniello]

No mention yet of the possibility of Reznak being the Harpy.

Quaithe warns Dany to beware the perfumed seneschal. GRRM muddies the picture (for the reader) by having the Volantene ship called "the stinky steward", but Reznak is specifically described (in one of Barristan's PoVs as 'the perfumed seneschal').

Reznak's squeally performance could just be an act to hide his tru personality. His position at court gives him the ideal spot to know Dany's plans and intentions.

Weakness in this theory - it's rather too similar to Varys and his role in King's Landing.

Edit for - I see Ser Lepus considers Reznak above.

[The Lost Lord]

But the excitement of the moment was not enough to make him forget putting pressure on Dany to try them out. Why was he so extremely persistent about it?

Actually, Hizdahr just said once, you should try the locusts, and never mentioned them again.

There is other circumstantial evidence. "The first thing" (direct quote) Hizdahr did after his marriage was to fire Shavepate. Later, during the fighting pit chapter, Dany spends a paragraph musing about how usually her Unsullied would be guarding her in the box, but just today the Brazen Beasts are.

The Shavepate most likely knew more about Dany's eating habits than Hizdahr did. If it was the Shavepate who poisoned the locusts, they were probably targeted at Hizdahr. But then the Shavepate still risked Dany poisoning herself on a whim, by trying out the locusts to please her husband.

I do think they were targeted at Dany, but not with a dosage strong enough to kill. Belwas ate the whole batch and still survived. Dany could only have been expected to eat a couple. This makes me think the poison was pretty weak. Have her get ill and convince Barristan that Hizdahr was behind it.

The argument was made that Dany's eating habits could mean the locusts are for Hizdahr, but I think Dany has eaten spicy stuff in the past and I can't recall her ever saying she dislikes spicy food. In contrast, Hizdahr tells Barristan (as he's being accused) that he doesn't like spicy foods, and that's why he didn't eat the locusts. Shavepate may have known that.

But I don't consider him prudent, or intelligent enough, for that sort of reasoning, and just stupid enough to deviate from the Harpy's carefully devised plans. If he even knew what those plans were - it is just as possible that the Harpy let him believe that it was his own careful planning that led to his marriage.

Why do you have that view of Hizdahr? To me he seems extremely practical, careful, and competent -- so much so that it seems extremely out of character for him to risk poisoning Dany in broad daylight, as she sits right next to him, in front of thousands of people, with no apparent plan to deal with Barristan or her Unsullied if they hold him responsible. What would lead you to believe he is stupid?

[The BlackBear]

I do think they were targeted at Dany, but not with a dosage strong enough to kill. Belwas ate the whole batch and still survived. Dany could only have been expected to eat a couple. This makes me think the poison was pretty weak. Have her get ill and convince Barristan that Hizdahr was behind it.

Well Belwas is at least twice the weight of Dany. And was still almost killed. I always saw it as Belwas being very lucky he survived. You wouldn't want a poison that's too strong anyway, someone dying very quickly arouses more suspision than a slow fatal illness. i.e tears of Lys vs the strangler.

[Manderly Chef]

I think we can rule out Reznak as the Harpy because Dany already suspects him so he hasn't relied on him the way she's relied on the shavepate and the green grace