Who is the Harpy?

[The BlackBear]

I think we can rule out Reznak as the Harpy because Dany already suspects him so he hasn't relied on him the way she's relied on the shavepate and the green grace

He does seem a bit bolted on, like he's only there to confuse the prophesy and unsettle Dany.

[Tini]

Actually, Hizdahr just said once, you should try the locusts, and never mentioned them again.

I guess I remember wrong. Didn't Hizdahr become evasive when asked why he didn't eat any himself? I found it really odd that he tried to make Dany eat his favorite food while at the same time not showing any interest in it himself.

Why do you have that view of Hizdahr? To me he seems extremely practical, careful, and competent -- so much so that it seems extremely out of character for him to risk poisoning Dany in broad daylight, as she sits right next to him, in front of thousands of people, with no apparent plan to deal with Barristan or her Unsullied if they hold him responsible. What would lead you to believe he is stupid?

Not stupid. Just stupid enough to believe he'd get away with it. Poisoning Dany publicly was actually quite intelligent.

I doubt that Barristan and the Unsullied would have turned on Hizdahr in front of all the witnesses. Why would they? The poison might have been intended for Hizdahr, and he obviously had no opportunity to poison the food that was brought up from the kitchens. If Dany suddenly fell ill, it was more likely that they would take her to safety while sending people to question the cook.

It was also a question of opportunity. Dany and Hizdahr didn't spend much time together, so finding an opportunity might have been an issue. Their marriage wasn't based on mutual attraction. Dany had her own trusted staff to keep her company, keep her safe. The occasion provided Hizdahr with a splendid opportunity. If anything happened to Dany, people would start wondering immediately what Hizdahr was doing at the time, so he made sure everybody knew.

[The Lost Lord]

I guess I remember wrong. Didn't Hizdahr become evasive when asked why he didn't eat any himself? I found it really odd that he tried to make Dany eat his favorite food while at the same time not showing any interest in it himself.

Yeah, people think it was "repeated," "pressure" and so on just because Barristan obsesses about it later. But this is the sum total of the exchange.

Strong Belwas bellowed, “Locusts!” as he seized the bowl and began to crunch them by the handful.

“Those are very tasty,” advised Hizdahr. “You ought to try a few yourself, my love. They are rolled in spice before the honey, so they are sweet and hot at once.”

“That explains the way Belwas is sweating,” Dany said. “I believe I will content myself with figs and dates.”

Over in a flash.

Not stupid. Just stupid enough to believe he'd get away with it. Poisoning Dany publicly was actually quite intelligent. I doubt that Barristan and the Unsullied would have turned on Hizdahr in front of all the witnesses. Why would they?

Why? For exactly the reasons that Barristan eventually did blame Hizdahr. (1) Because Barristan was standing right there the whole time and saw Hizdahr tell Dany to try the locusts and eat none himself. Not exactly subtle... (2) Because Hizdahr supplied the food for the box, as Barristan says later: "It was your pit, your box, your seats. Sweet wine and soft cushions, figs and melons and honeyed locusts. You provided all. You urged Her Grace to try the locusts but never tasted one yourself.” Those two things alone would immediately make him the prime suspect (which in Martin's world means he's probably being framed).

It would also, again, be crazy for Hizdahr to assassinate Dany without a plan for dealing with her 10,000 Unsullied afterward, who I've gotta assume would sack the city if she died, and probably kill Hizdahr too. And I don't really see the basis for your claim that Hizdahr would never have another opportunity to kill her, now that they are married.

At the very least he should've arranged for a patsy to blame it on. Hizdahr says he thinks it was Quentyn afterwards -- why would he try to frame Quentyn for it and not invite Quentyn to the box with them, to make this accusation more plausible?

[jarl the climber]

I guess I remember wrong. Didn't Hizdahr become evasive when asked why he didn't eat any himself? I found it really odd that he tried to make Dany eat his favorite food while at the same time not showing any interest in it himself.

Not stupid. Just stupid enough to believe he'd get away with it. Poisoning Dany publicly was actually quite intelligent.

I doubt that Barristan and the Unsullied would have turned on Hizdahr in front of all the witnesses. Why would they? The poison might have been intended for Hizdahr, and he obviously had no opportunity to poison the food that was brought up from the kitchens. If Dany suddenly fell ill, it was more likely that they would take her to safety while sending people to question the cook.

It was also a question of opportunity. Dany and Hizdahr didn't spend much time together, so finding an opportunity might have been an issue. Their marriage wasn't based on mutual attraction. Dany had her own trusted staff to keep her company, keep her safe. The occasion provided Hizdahr with a splendid opportunity. If anything happened to Dany, people would start wondering immediately what Hizdahr was doing at the time, so he made sure everybody knew.

Heres the thing, maybe you missed this point in my post. Is there any evidence that Dany likes food like this? Hizadar said how much he liked them. Belwas was also estatic over them. Nor was he concerned that Belwas was giving things away by wolfing them down. You have to beleive that every thing she is doing is being watched closely. If someone was trying to poison her they would have brought a bowl of figs or fruit maybe olives. Dany is a nibbler. Hizadar did not seem dismayed by Danys lack of interest nor did he seem concerned that Belwas was eating them. Maybe Belwas was the target. He did kill that Pahl in ASOS and shat at the city. I think if Hizadar has any knowledge it after the fact. In all fairness to Barristan he arrest Hizadar more or less for his own protection and plans to keep him safe til the Queen returns. He has not commited himself to anything really as far as Hizadars guilt goes.

[Manderly Chef]

To me Hizidar is the Ghiscari version of Cersei. He thinks he's a player in the game of thrones but he's being used by the yunkaii and the harpy. i don't think he has any idea about his peace treaty being a sham. it's possible that he didn't know the locusts were poisoned either. if Dany gets driven out of Mereen this guy's gonna die faster than a prologue character

[The Lord's Kiss]

If there is a Harpy, I'm convinced it's the Green Grace.

[Matt O'Sevens]

Reznak zo Loraq. We find out that Hizdar and Reznak have been secretly married for the past decade, but couldn't be open about it because gay marriage is frowned upon in the conservative cities of Slaver's bay. ;)

Seriously though, I think it could either be Reznak, Hizdar, or possibly the Green Grace. But my front runner is Reznak. ("Beware the perfumed seneschal.")

[Manderly Chef]

but the ship Tyrion and Moqorro are on is called the Perfumed Seneschal and Reznak doesn't really have any power compared to Skahkaz or the Green Grace

[Matt O'Sevens]

I think the ship Selaesori Qhoran was a red herring, besides it never reached her...and Tyrion and Moqorro were already referenced in the warning:

"Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin.....Beware the perfumed seneschal."

I don't think Quaithe would mention the same person in two different ways in the same warning. Just doesn't make sense to me. Kraken and dark flame=Victarion and Moqorro. Lion=Tyrion. Perfumed seneschal=Reznak. It doesn't mean he is the Harpy, but I for one think he is, or is at least involved.

[Arataniello]

Matt, this is my thinking too. Why warn Dany about the ship 'The Stinky Steward' when a) it doesn't even reach her and B) Quaithe mentions Moqorro and Tyrion to Dany separately.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Matt, this is my thinking too. Why warn Dany about the ship 'The Stinky Steward' when a) it doesn't even reach her and B) Quaithe mentions Moqorro and Tyrion to Dany separately.

Yes, it seems strange to give an extra warning about the ship when Dany is already warned about the persons on it and thus the ship's name is most likely a red herring. However, I just want to stress that Qaithe only warned about who at that moment was on their way to Dany. Griff and Lion for example didn't arrive either, so that alone is no reason to write off the ship.

[Ser Lepus]

I guess I remember wrong. Didn't Hizdahr become evasive when asked why he didn't eat any himself? I found it really odd that he tried to make Dany eat his favorite food while at the same time not showing any interest in it himself.

If he were the poisoner, the smart thing to do would be to use a poison whose antidote he knew, and take it in advance, or even make a servant serve him wine with said antidote in it; that way he could eat some locust in front of everybody.

Of course Strong Belwas would have destroyed that plan when he ate the locusts, since everybody would realize that the poison was in them, and that Hizdahr didn't get sick after eating a few.

Another option is that Hizdahr didn't knew that the locusts were poisoned but didn't want to eat them after Belwas had put his hand in the bowl. I know a few people that wouldn't want to take food from a common bowl, and they aren't even aristocrats like Hizdahr.

[jarl the climber]

To answer the OP. I agree with Dany, there is not a single leader or harpy in complete control of the dissedents. Hizadar represents the more moderate elements that were willing to fight Dany but were eager for peace if they got certian concessions and you had some clans but most ecspecially the Pahls that were opposed to peace on any terms but had no hopes of resisting if the moderates made a peace with Dany. The Green Grace threw her influence behind the moderate faction. She probaly advocated resistance until Dany made some effort to comport herself to Ghiscari custom. I think what happened in Astapor looms over the Green Graces head more than anybody else. While she is closer to being the Harpy more than anybody else, her aim was not to overthrow Dany but to turn her into a Ghiscari. The Yunkish victory over the Astopori under Cleon forced Dany to make a deal but also empowered and encouraged the radicals. It also greatly increased the ability of outside powers to interfere as you now have a seige by land adding to the pressure all ready being applied by the naval blockade of Mereen.

[tze]

This is a bit crackpot, but I haven't seen it brought up anywhere yet.

We don't know exactly what was on the honeyed locusts, only that Strong Belwas ate all of them and became very sick (but did not die). I've seen a lot of speculation that the "poison" was meant to either kill Dany, to kill Hizdahr, or to sicken Dany. But there's another issue at play here, one that I think has been somewhat overlooked: Dany's (potential) pregnancy, and the Harpy's potential knowledge thereof. In her final chapter, Dany is trying to remember when she last menstruated, and can't.

The last full moon? The one before? The one before that? No, it cannot have been so long as that.

The point of marrying Hizdahr was to produce, in the words of the Green Grace, (who I consider our prime Harpy candidate),

a son whose father is the harpy, whose mother is the dragon.

Except Dany's very public sexual relationship with Daario puts the paternity of any children she might soon have in question. In fact, though the timetables are difficult for the reader to assess, there's an excellent chance that the Green Grace has a far better idea of when Dany last menstruated than Dany herself, (who pretty clearly hadn't been tracking her cycle for a little while). This is a world without tampons or maxi pads, so her close servants would probably know when Dany was (and was not) menstruating, and servants always gossip (or can be bought). The Green Grace has expressed her wish for Dany and Hizdahr to jointly produce an heir to Meereen, and she's spoken up against Dany's affair with Daario. And now it seems quite likely that Dany has been pregnant for at least a couple of months, a possibility that she never realized but which someone who had a vested interest in Dany's potential pregnancy status (like the Green Grace) very well might have been watching for all along.

So my general point being, what if the "poison" wasn't strictly a poison? What if it was a substance meant as an abortificant, and was never meant to permanently injure (or even to really "sicken" Dany in the traditional sense)? If Dany's been pregnant for at least a couple of months, then Daario, not Hizdahr, is quite possibly the father. In the eyes of the Green Grace, Dany was set to "cheat" the Meereenese of a half-Meereenese heir (and future ruler), should she give birth to Daario's son and pretend he's really Hizdahr's son.

If Dany had only eaten a couple of the honeyed locusts, presumably the best the poisoner(s) could have hoped for, then that quite likely wouldn't have killed her, and she would have only gotten a bit sick . . . but under those circumstances, would she have ever even realized there'd been anything on those locusts in the first place? It's not exactly unusual to get a bit sick after eating a food you've never eaten before, and it's hard to make a case for an attempted assassination if you only get a bit sick, and I don't see how only a couple of those locusts could have done any more than that, given what happened (and didn't happen) when Strong Belwas ate all of them. And actually, that might explain the rather bizarre choice of food here: the "poisoner(s)" might have chosen to poison a food Dany did not ordinarily eat, rather than a food she was known to enjoy (like figs or olives), to both 1) ensure that she didn't eat more than a few and accidentally injure herself more severely than was needed and 2) hide the fact that there'd been anything extra on the locusts the first place, as Dany would just attribute any unusual physical discomfort to her stomach "acting up" on eating a strange food (and when she started bleeding, she'd have assumed that was just her period).

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I see meereen as like practice for dany before she gets to westeros. And I enjoy the meereenese stories. But its time for her to get forward and go back. But in my oopinion the harpy isn't one specific person. Its hizdhar and the green grace along with a harpy pulling the strings. Shavepate isn't loyal but I don't think he's outright the harpy unless he is a manipulative mastermind to get daenerys to marry into loraq then leave the city by dragon to create chaos. Then their is the war with yunkai loraq hostages were the only ones returned. I'm not sold on the harpy having a leader. But I don't think hizdar is innocent. And the green grace is way to old to be the harpy. The shavepate is a great candidate but he really harms his better interests if he is.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

This is a bit crackpot, but I haven't seen it brought up anywhere yet.

We don't know exactly what was on the honeyed locusts, only that Strong Belwas ate all of them and became very sick (but did not die). I've seen a lot of speculation that the "poison" was meant to either kill Dany, to kill Hizdahr, or to sicken Dany. But there's another issue at play here, one that I think has been somewhat overlooked: Dany's (potential) pregnancy, and the Harpy's potential knowledge thereof. In her final chapter, Dany is trying to remember when she last menstruated, and can't.

The point of marrying Hizdahr was to produce, in the words of the Green Grace, (who I consider our prime Harpy candidate),

Except Dany's very public sexual relationship with Daario puts the paternity of any children she might soon have in question. In fact, though the timetables are difficult for the reader to assess, there's an excellent chance that the Green Grace has a far better idea of when Dany last menstruated than Dany herself, (who pretty clearly hadn't been tracking her cycle for a little while). This is a world without tampons or maxi pads, so her close servants would probably know when Dany was (and was not) menstruating, and servants always gossip (or can be bought). The Green Grace has expressed her wish for Dany and Hizdahr to jointly produce an heir to Meereen, and she's spoken up against Dany's affair with Daario. And now it seems quite likely that Dany has been pregnant for at least a couple of months, a possibility that she never realized but which someone who had a vested interest in Dany's potential pregnancy status (like the Green Grace) very well might have been watching for all along.

So my general point being, what if the "poison" wasn't strictly a poison? What if it was a substance meant as an abortificant, and was never meant to permanently injure (or even to really "sicken" Dany in the traditional sense)? If Dany's been pregnant for at least a couple of months, then Daario, not Hizdahr, is quite possibly the father. In the eyes of the Green Grace, Dany was set to "cheat" the Meereenese of a half-Meereenese heir (and future ruler), should she give birth to Daario's son and pretend he's really Hizdahr's son.

If Dany had only eaten a couple of the honeyed locusts, presumably the best the poisoner(s) could have hoped for, then that quite likely wouldn't have killed her, and she would have only gotten a bit sick . . . but under those circumstances, would she have ever even realized there'd been anything on those locusts in the first place? It's not exactly unusual to get a bit sick after eating a food you've never eaten before, and it's hard to make a case for an attempted assassination if you only get a bit sick, and I don't see how only a couple of those locusts could have done any more than that, given what happened (and didn't happen) when Strong Belwas ate all of them. And actually, that might explain the rather bizarre choice of food here: the "poisoner(s)" might have chosen to poison a food Dany did not ordinarily eat, rather than a food she was known to enjoy (like figs or olives), to both 1) ensure that she didn't eat more than a few and accidentally injure herself more severely than was needed and 2) hide the fact that there'd been anything extra on the locusts the first place, as Dany would just attribute any unusual physical discomfort to her stomach "acting up" on eating a strange food (and when she started bleeding, she'd have assumed that was just her period).

Very interesting theory!!!! But it is known that if dany or hizdar would of ate the locusts they would of died. Barristan said it was belwas's extremem size and strength that kept him alive. And that he may still die.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

To me Hizidar is the Ghiscari version of Cersei. He thinks he's a player in the game of thrones but he's being used by the yunkaii and the harpy. i don't think he has any idea about his peace treaty being a sham. it's possible that he didn't know the locusts were poisoned either. if Dany gets driven out of Mereen this guy's gonna die faster than a prologue character

I can usually see light in comparisons. But WHAT cersei? That's crazy. Maybe if she grows a penis teases her hair and wears a tokar and starts playing with the harpy. Even in their seperate locations they aren't playing or being pawns in the same way at all >_< cersei is running the relam into chaos and believing she is the shit and her father with a clit. Now hozdar is more subtiling believing he is doing the right thing and playing to keep his crown. Getting in bed with the dragon was his short cut to peace. Cersei never takes a proper short cut. Her paranoia and new found shame prevent it.

[Gaston de Foix]

I think it's the Green Grace. The clue, in my view, is that the Green Grace's cousin (I don't have the book with me, so pls chase references down) comes to Dany and asks her for the value of of the weaving skills Elza taught his slave girls and instead Dany forces him to pay for a new loom for the girls. The girls later give Dany a tapestry by way of thanks, and are found butchered by the Sons of the Harpy. It's pretty obvious it was a revenge killing by the Green Grace's cousin who runs the Sons of the Harpy.

But I think Daario was right; Dany should have winkled all the noble Mereenese out of their pyramids for the wedding, and butchered them all. That's what Tywin would have done, and Tywin was the most skilled player of the Game of Thrones in recent Westerosi history.

[The BlackBear]

I see meereen as like practice for dany before she gets to westeros. And I enjoy the meereenese stories. But its time for her to get forward and go back. But in my oopinion the harpy isn't one specific person. Its hizdhar and the green grace along with a harpy pulling the strings. Shavepate isn't loyal but I don't think he's outright the harpy unless he is a manipulative mastermind to get daenerys to marry into loraq then leave the city by dragon to create chaos. Then their is the war with yunkai loraq hostages were the only ones returned. I'm not sold on the harpy having a leader. But I don't think hizdar is innocent. And the green grace is way to old to be the harpy. The shavepate is a great candidate but he really harms his better interests if he is.

The main problem with that is why do the Meerenese somehow deserve to be used as practice? Do they matter less than Westerosi?

[jarl the climber]

Very interesting theory!!!! But it is known that if dany or hizdar would of ate the locusts they would of died. Barristan said it was belwas's extremem size and strength that kept him alive. And that he may still die.

Another thing is that many herbal treatments that might cause an abortion can also kill you if not applied properly. The slave girl in Rome killed Pullos wife like that. I can also recall reading something in the paper a number of years ago about a young woman who died because she tried to abort a pregnancy in this manner and mixed the concoction the wrong way. On the other hand Dany is a nibbler who is unlikely to eat more than one or two. So it does seem possible.