Lord Jon Stark of Winterfel - Where the hell is the will?

[Lord Gautham Girishankar]

Didn't Robb sanction a will against Catelyn's wishes to have Jon Snow as lord of Winterfell after his demise..what the hell happened to it?

[Nordling]

Wrong place for this topic.

[SerStinger]

Wrong place for this topic.

Why?

[Barty]

Didn't Robb sanction a will against Catelyn's wishes to have Jon Snow as lord of Winterfell after his demise..what the hell happened to it?

It's with Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont at Greywater watch. Mormont might have told her daughters about the will as well - which would explain Lyanna Mormont's reply.(She emphasized that the King in the North's name is STARK - maybe referring to a newly named Stark??)

[Buckwheat]

It's with Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont at Greywater watch. Mormont might have told her daughters about the will as well - which would explain Lyanna Mormont's reply.(She emphasized that the King in the North's name is STARK - maybe referring to a newly named Stark??)

Yup. A good theory about Lyanna's letter as well. The letetr will probably appear when Maege and Galbart emerge from the Neck at some point.

Why?

I wonder about that as well. :dunno:

[The Lord's Kiss]

Howland's got it with Maege and Galbart, why does he keep everything from Jon?!

[Chaircat Meow]

Telling Jon he is Robb's heir would be like a death sentence for him in the current situation, so no wonder Howland is sitting on the will (he also knows the king made it on a false presumption).

Also, how did Robb think he could get Jon to take a title when he's prohibited from doing that on pain of oathbreaking?

[Barty]

Telling Jon he is Robb's heir would be like a death sentence for him in the current situation, so no wonder Howland is sitting on the will (he also knows the king made it on a false presumption).

Also, how did Robb think he could get Jon to take a title when he's prohibited from doing that on pain of oathbreaking?

He's a King - Kings have this odd notion that they can do whatever they like and no one can question them.

[Erudain]

Telling Jon he is Robb's heir would be like a death sentence for him in the current situation, so no wonder Howland is sitting on the will (he also knows the king made it on a false presumption).

Also, how did Robb think he could get Jon to take a title when he's prohibited from doing that on pain of oathbreaking?

They say something about kings doing it before IIRC....that if you go to the NW and say "if you let this guy go I'll give you 100 soldiers" they will release him from his duties (but to the gods is still oathbreaking haha)

[Chaircat Meow]

He's a King - Kings have this odd notion that they can do whatever they like and no one can question them.

Ha, yes, although is it the case a king can release someone from the vows? Stannis wanted to do it too, but that was by claiming oaths taken to weirwoods didn't oblige rather than relying on kingly power as such wasn't it?

[Barty]

Ha, yes, although is it the case a king can release someone from the vows? Stannis wanted to do it too, but that was by claiming oaths taken to weirwoods didn't oblige rather than relying on kingly power as such wasn't it?

Cersei releases Barristan from his vows(which are extremely similar to the ones the Night's watch takes). There's no law stopping a King from doing it and no law stating that a King can do it, so it's basically up to the king in question - I don't think it sets a good precedent though. Vows should be for life.

It was Melisandre who says the bit about vows sworn to trees holding no power. Stannis isn't concerned about Jon's vow, so maybe he does have the Kingly power to release him from it.

[Buried Treasure]

Robb's proposal was to bribe the LC to release Jon, not get him out on his own authority. As Robb held himself as only oneking amongst several he did not claim authority over the Watch, which is different to Stannis who actually believes his kingdom includes the Wall and presumably that the Watch should answer to him.

The will not turning up at the Wall after all this time may be a clue that Robb changed his mind about the heir between telling Cat he wanted to name Jon and writing the document.

[kephv]

Robb's proposal was to bribe the LC to release Jon, not get him out on his own authority. As Robb held himself as only oneking amongst several he did not claim authority over the Watch, which is different to Stannis who actually believes his kingdom includes the Wall and presumably that the Watch should answer to him.

He was giving them men in order to justify it, but it wasn't a bribe -- it was a royal command. And yes, as King in the North, he definitely would've claimed authority over all the North, which includes the Watch.

The will not turning up at the Wall after all this time may be a clue that Robb changed his mind about the heir between telling Cat he wanted to name Jon and writing the document.

But who would he pick besides Jon? It seems highly unlikely that he would've changed his mind, especially considering how strongly he disagreed with Catelyn.

[Old-Growth]

There is said to be an SSM to the effect that members of the Night's Watch have, under unusual circumstances, legitimately been released from their vows. It would be amusing if what it takes is the authority of the Lord Commander.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

It's with Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont at Greywater watch. Mormont might have told her daughters about the will as well - which would explain Lyanna Mormont's reply.(She emphasized that the King in the North's name is STARK - maybe referring to a newly named Stark??)

We've got a member of the Glover family with Manderly trying to get Rickon, promising to pledge to Stannis if Davos gets him. We have a Mormont girl currently with Stannis. They could be angling to get to Jon to tell him, &/or protect him...or replace him with a "true born" Stark.

[shk12344]

Howland's got it with Maege and Galbart, why does he keep everything from Jon?!

Because Jon has to make a trip to the swamp like Luke Skywalker to learn the truth from a small green man who is parents are and why it had to remain secret to protect him from a vengeful King. Perhaps Jon will get to play with Lightsaber.....I mean Lighbringer

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Because Jon has to make a trip to the swamp like Luke Skywalker to learn the truth from a small green man who is parents are and why it had to remain secret to protect him from a vengeful King. Perhaps Jon will get to play with Lightsaber.....I mean Lighbringer

HAR!

[Queen of Procrastination]

There is said to be an SSM to the effect that members of the Night's Watch have, under unusual circumstances, legitimately been released from their vows. It would be amusing if what it takes is the authority of the Lord Commander.

Do you have any examples or text evidence? I am really interested in that.

[Buried Treasure]

He was giving them men in order to justify it, but it wasn't a bribe -- it was a royal command. And yes, as King in the North, he definitely would've claimed authority over all the North, which includes the Watch.

He gives a royal command when he presents the will to his lords for signing but all he says about getting Jon out of the Watch is 'If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon's place, I'll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.' There is bribery but no command in that statement. Nor indeed is there an actual plan of who would send, although that could perhaps explained by Robb dying before sorting out the detail.

Historically the Watch has been independent off all the kings of Westeros. The kings of the north intervened when the Watch stepped out of line or needed assistance but they did not rule the Watch.

But who would he pick besides Jon? It seems highly unlikely that he would've changed his mind, especially considering how strongly he disagreed with Catelyn.

The discussion with Catelyn was very emotional, but a lot of that comes from Catelyn expressing her mistrust of Jon - even to the point of equating him with Theon. I don't dispute that scene showed how much Robb wanted to name Jon, but Robb was a king who had to make choices based on what he thought best for his kingdom. Jon, as a green (as far as the northerners know) youngster sworn to the Nights Watch may not have been the best choice. I've always maintained that Harrion Karstark might have been a good choice; he's from a cadet house (scratch a Karstark and you'll find a Stark), already has heirs to follow him if he dies on day one of his kingship and him succeeding would reunite the northern houses and thus strengthen the kingdom. My main point of raising the issue here though is that Mormont and Glover have had plenty of time to arrive at the Wall by now, so the fact they have not might indicate they had no reason to go there.

So Spake Martin is the collection of word-of-god statements about the series, it's part of the main Westeros site. I've never heard mention of anything about sworn brothers been released though, and would be curious. Although I've always figured in thousands of years a few Black Brothers must have been let out for one reason or another, but as it is somewhat shameful references to that would be kept to a minimum and it happening would be long forgotten by the time the next person along needed a precedence.

[Greywater Reed]

The Night's Watch would have to have been pretty stupid/pig-headed to turn down an offer of 100 extra fighting men in order to keep 1 fifteen year old. Robb probably was well aware of that.