Crackpot theory on Jaime Lannister

[Black Maester Sam]

and Stoneheart is... Stoneheart.

:bowdown: :agree:

[Black Maester Sam]

I don't think this idea is farfetched, we already have the lines "Hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm" (granted in a different context). I think it would be interesting to work this back into the story, maybe as Jamie is choking the life out of Cersei as her Valonquar. Maybe they will be the last words Cersei hears or something.

Sung by Tyrion in the background, while Jamie is choking Cercei. :thumbsup:

[Budj]

I think the BWB if led by Jaime heads north. If he isn't leading them then I'm guessing he still goes North. I think there is a reason Jon had a mentor with a useless hand. Combining that with the oath Jaime reflects on a lot (failing to protect Rhaegar's children) and I think there is a huge neon sign pointing to Jaime and Jon interacting.

I also don't think Jaime's character growth would be hindered by getting his hand back....but I don't think he will be getting that hand back. Up in the air how good he gets with the left hand - Qhorin apparently got better, but that could just be a story.

[David Selig]

Wow, we disagree for once, Danelle.

I see Jaime leading the BwB with or without Thoros' magic (in fact, I very much hope without). I see the BwB as having lost their cause and fallen down into a path of vengeance. Jaime, too, is feeling vengeaful toward Cersei. Both are in a dark place - and thus, I see similarities between them. I think the BwB *need* a strong leader - as they seem to have lost Beric and Stoneheart is... Stoneheart.

Stoneheart is a better person and leader than Jaime. Not much of an achievement, admittedly. She is supporting orphanages and punishing villains, while Jaime is busy helping the villains take over what they've won thanks to the Red Wedding.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

Jaime doesn't need a right hand to be a leader, but this thoery is intriguing

[Jaime's Wench]

Stoneheart is a better person and leader than Jaime. Not much of an achievement, admittedly. She is supporting orphanages and punishing villains, while Jaime is busy helping the villains take over what they've won thanks to the Red Wedding.

Wow, we have read the books incredibly differently. I say that the moment Catelyn became Stoneheart she lost all trace of humanity. She started killing people without trial because of their name or their association. I mean, what did Pod ever do? She might have become a 'mother' to these desolate young men... but a woman who uses them for her own vengeance. Unlike some people on the forums, I don't believe every Frey deserves to die - and that seems to be all of Stoneheart's mission.

As for Jaime, he is a very good leader. There is a scene in AFFC when he goes around his troops and speaks to them before battle. You see how he manages to the Kingsguard before being sent away - he sees Loras' value, but he puts them all in their place. He's also capable of mercy, which is something Stoneheart is not.

[Titus Andronicus]

He doesn't necessarily need a new hand. There have been Knights and soldiers throughout history who have gone on to continue their careers with a prosthetic hand. And I can't believe that GRRM would let a character that he himself called one of the best swordsmen of his (Jaime's) time, continue to be unable to competently fight. Jaime will eventually master his left hand, I think. He does have a long winter coming up, plenty of down time to practice...

But magically retconing the loss of his hand would be a bit of a stretch, I think. And as for the BWB, the group will meet its demise along with Lady Stoneheart. Not to say that those who have remained in the Brotherhood will die along with her (though Lem probably will), but the Brotherhood will definitely disband.

[Daemul]

I like this theory, at least it isn't another secret Targ thread. Jamie may just get used to his golden hand, I don't know if there's a way to strap it on permanently.

[DaeneryStormBorn]

Could Moquorro's (sp?) healing of Victarion's hand be some sort of forshadowing to a healing event of Jaime? Jaime seems to be in a bad place at the end of ADWD, but what if Thoros heals Jaime's hand? What if Thoros, who seems to be somewhat discouraged by Lady Stoneheart, takes her "fire" and uses it to heal Jaime's hand? BOOM! Jaime is the new leader of the BWB.

Please No Just No No , Jaime started to reflect upon himself when he lost his hand. This is what made him a person that he is now. Not like the first time we met him.

[Men in their cups say...]

Jaime lost his hand, which began his self reflection and sends him down the path of redemption.

Bran was thrown out of a tower, which opened his third eye and sends him down the path towards becoming a greenseer.

Bran doesn't need to repeatedly fall out of windows to continue on the path he is on. Even if his legs magically started working again, he will spend the rest of his life in a cave in the lands of always winter.

If Jaime's hand magically regains function, he will use it to choke Cersei to death. Not to fingerblast her.

[David Selig]

Wow, we have read the books incredibly differently. I say that the moment Catelyn became Stoneheart she lost all trace of humanity. She started killing people without trial because of their name or their association. I mean, what did Pod ever do? She might have become a 'mother' to these desolate young men... but a woman who uses them for her own vengeance. Unlike some people on the forums, I don't believe every Frey deserves to die - and that seems to be all of Stoneheart's mission.

As for Jaime, he is a very good leader. There is a scene in AFFC when he goes around his troops and speaks to them before battle. You see how he manages to the Kingsguard before being sent away - he sees Loras' value, but he puts them all in their place. He's also capable of mercy, which is something Stoneheart is not.

What about Whispering Wood? This is such an epic leadership failure I can never accept Jaime as a good leader. So he talks to his men, big deal. What about releasing Tyrion even after he admitted to murdering the King? What kind of Lord Commander lets a murderer of a king evade justice?

On the contrary, Stoneheart has been very successful evading all the pursuers and achieving her goals. She's not using anyone - nobody forces the BWB to follow her and most of those under her leadership already loathe the Lannisters and the freys and are happy to execute them with or without her. And she's specific about only executing Freys who were directly involved in the RW, as we see in the epilogue of ASOS.

[Black Maester Sam]

What about Whispering Wood? This is such an epic leadership failure I can never accept Jaime as a good leader. So he talks to his men, big deal. What about releasing Tyrion even after he admitted to murdering the King? What kind of Lord Commander lets a murderer of a king evade justice?

The Wispering Woods were a great trap, not seeing it, is not a leadership failure, not learning from it would be. Tywin, Robb, Ned even Tyrion, they all did not see at lest one trap that was laid for them, respectivly. Tywin was just lucky that Edmure stood in his way.

Jamie let Tyrion go because he did not believe him to be guilty and because he owed him his freedom, maybe even his life. He knows his siblings an did see the trial. IIRC he thought Tyrion was covering for Sansa and the trial was obviously manipulated by Cercei.

I don't think he would let him go a second time.

[redriver]

Whispering Wood was before Jaime lost his hand.He acknowledges his mistake as he sets out to tidy up the Riverlands by being overly conscious of security issues throughout the journey,remembering Whispering Wood several times.

The political savvy that Jaime displays throughout this journey is satisfying,especially as it's a skill he never gave himself credit for.He was a fighter in his mind until he lost the hand.Now he is able to sort out the Riverrun issue without taking up arms against the Tullys-an important issue to him.

I don't see UnJaime happening or leadership of the BWB.I also really doubt he will continue to ride unquestioningly into this obvious trap.He will stop and question Brienne,and not move until he knows the answers.

[Babeldygob]

His golden one is definitely not handy. Why is he using it? I believe it will be animated at some point by someone. Be it Thoros or whoever. I don;t believe he will become leader of tBwB

[oneeyedsnake]

Doubt it. If Thoros was going to sabotage Lady Stoneheart's leadership he would have done so already. I think Jaime will be sentenced to death, but saved by a force fighting against the BWB, such as the Faith Militant or maybe the Faceless Men (who aren't so fond of necromancy. Sort of breaches their sacred laws, you see)

[Tyrion4President]

losing his sword hand has made him reassess everything he stood for and believed in. it's the single best thing that has happened to him in the entire series.

jamie will not get a new hand, if he did it would signal the end of his character growth.

not necessarily, it will leave him at a crossroads and complicate his character growth. He could turn back to the way he was before or he can continue on his path of redemption. It would be his toughest choice yet and would really reinforce his change of heart.

[Petyr Patter]

Actually, I think Jaime has some foreshadowing with a relationship with the Brotherhood without Banners, mostly through his past experience with the Kingswood Brotherhood which he reminisces about often during A Feast for Crows. He explains that when an outlaw group does more for the peasants than the lords, than the peasants will side with the outlaws making them impossible to track of find. However, start treating the peasants with respect, doing things like buying grain and what have you, then the peasants will work with the law to bring them in.

Jaime also claimed despite trying to be the "Sword of Morning," he ended up as the "Smiling Knight." A swordsmen who essentially matched Arthur Dayne blow for blow for several rounds with common steel when Dayne was equipped with Dawn. I mean, sure the guy eventually lost, but he kept up with the widely recognized greatest swordsmen of the era in single combat.

Yet, despite Jaime's status as Lord Commander of the Kings Guard, he still feels like he has more in common with the Smiling Knight, a bandit. Might Jaime finally achieve actual heroic status as a member of an outlaw group?

That being stated, one of the reasons he's taking his Kings Guard oaths so seriously, is to protect his own son. I can't see him leaving the Kingsguard while Tommen is still alive and a king. Obviously, this may change very quickly.

[Little and Less]

The smiling knight comment also parallels Jaime's thought of seeing the BF at the head of a band of outlaws....I sometimes wonder if Jaime is reflecting about himself in that comment and NOT the BF. Too crackpot I guess.

Its funny how much the BF and Jaime have in common - both are great fighters who openly defy the heads of their respective families and have chosen a different path. But that's another forum topic.

Jaime losing his hand is one of the best character developments in ASOIAF - I agree I don't want him to get back his hand.

Besides if GRRM entertained this thought, I could totally see this being a huge problem - Jaime would get his hand back by magic and it would end up being slow and useless.

Sorta like a be careful what you wish for moment ala GRRM to the readers...

[Ser Gunter Rudolf]

I really don't see Jaime getting his hand back, magical or otherwise.

It's way to important for his character development, but i'm waiting till he smashes someones face with that golden fist :box:

[drigoly]

Now this is the most far stretched theory I have read so far, wouldn't really like hands appearing out of nowhere :/