the Scorpion Knight Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Ah yes. Well, Ramsay has the advantage of not being a wound-ridden corpse, so I'd give him the edge.well corpeses aren't tauntableIs there any other instances where we see this besides Jons fight with Mance's Glamour?Edit: are we talking single combat? And is Ghost included?does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrek Stark Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 does it matter?No it doesn't, just wondering if he was basing this solely off one skirmish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 wretches out the spear in the ground with the heads without eye sockets easily while the men struggle with the other two in Melisandre's chapter, when he's angry he goes into berzerker/hulk modeNice catch, I missed that. Four men, or two men to a spear struggle pulling the other two spears out. Jon is stronger than he looks, and I would like to see how much he has improved since his ordeal with Mance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Yeah, it just seems like piling on now but at no point in the series did I get the impression Ramsey was a good fighter. Mance was a trained man of the night's watch, not to mention he had to fight his way to the top of the Wilding ranks. Comparing the two seems a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Not sure what being a psycho has to do with being a good warrior. I imagine Ramsey would be easy fodder for Jon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Has anybody agreed with the OP? Seems pretty obvious to me it's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer is Ending Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Has anybody agreed with the OP? Seems pretty obvious to me it's wrong.Only Rahloo's bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Yeah when I read the title of this thread I thought it was going to be a discussion of the different forces that each command, maybe some theories about the pink letter (Admiral Akbar voice: Its a trap!), some plot predictions maybe......Ramsay beating Jon in a one v one fight is just ridiculous....Yup, we're talking about a fight or even a duel. Not a battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Yup, we're talking about a fight or even a duel. Not a battle.ramsay is even more of waste there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 View that: , imagine Ramsay making every single mistake that these guys point out because he was never trained at all, and remember that Jon had 100 times the training these guys have and a bunch of actual, living teachers in a living art instead of a bunch of old, half-understood books.This video was awesome. Thanks BBEI think that in pretty much any battle Jon would destroy Ramsay. Especially since Jon would never make the mistake of trusting Ramsay like Ser Rodrik did, not after that letter.... Ramsay would try and set some sort of trap on the Kingsroad maybe, his troops would be better equipped and probably better rested and fed but Jon has earned the loyalty of his troops and even though their weapons are shit and their armor is practically nonexistent, the Wildlings didn't get that name by being Lamb People, they would savagely cut through the Bolton troops to the last man and never break and run....... For the same reason, I predict a Stannis victory in TWOW, mountain claners are badass.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 the white wolf and the flayed manThe Ice Dragon and the Flayed Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 It seems that even the OP has abandoned his/her position here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Single combat - No. As people have mentioned Ramsay swings his sword like a butcher cutting meat. There is no style, skill or finesse. All the best swordsmen fight with these attributes. Barristan, Jaime and Loars are all skillful and graceful, Syrio in another example.Do people think Mance is some sort of nobody that Jon's defeat means he is not good? Didnt the halfhand say that Mance was the best ranger in the watch? He became king of the wildlings, that requires great fighting ability, they only follow strength.Battle command - Bigger no. Jon is truly Neds son (personality), he planned Stannis' campaign and help the wall against thousands. Ramsay is too easy to provoke, easier than Jaime even. Jon ccould put him in the perfect spot for his men to win. Ramsay is to straight forward and head on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Jon vs Ramsay one on one isn't fight. It's an execution. Jon would have his head in about two seconds.And comparing Mance to Ramsay in fighting skill ... it's just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Fighting like a butcher could actually work to Ramsay's advantage. First, how many people in Westeros have ever fought a butcher before? Arya fought Hotpie but he was only a baker. Most knights and other swordsmen (or swordswenches) train in specific style of combat that has nothing to do with cutting actual meat. Butchers, however, make cutting things an art, and certainly know ways to best separate limbs from bodies. Therefore, Ramsay's butchering skills combined with his innate ferocity would make him more than a match for the lowly bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Fighting like a butcher could actually work to Ramsay's advantage. First, how many people in Westeros have ever fought a butcher before? Arya fought Hotpie but he was only a baker. Most knights and other swordsmen (or swordswenches) train in specific style of combat that has nothing to do with cutting actual meat. Butchers, however, make cutting things an art, and certainly know ways to best separate limbs from bodies. Therefore, Ramsay's butchering skills combined with his innate ferocity would make him more than a match for the lowly bastard.All of which is useless knowledge if their opponent is wearing armour, wielding a weapon, and has human intelligence.If Jon Snow was a pig, this argument might have some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Ramsay, like Mance fights with a ferocious style and has been proven Jon doesn't fare well against that Style of fighting whence he fought Mance.Glamour on Mance aside, it was the speed and ferocity that gave Mance his biggest advantages.I would love Nothing more than John and Ramsay (or Mance for that matter) battling to the death, BUT I think Jon could survive only through a cunning manuever A la Jon tackling Mance.Agree or Disagree?And Reasons.This OP is pretty much using the classic "vague, no fixed technicality" criteria to determine the outcome. Jon has fought in battles, trained all his life with a sword at Winterfell and Castle Black.Ramsay hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 All of which is useless knowledge if their opponent is wearing armour, wielding a weapon, and has human intelligence.Thankfully, Ramsay has all three of these. Probably even more so than Jon does -- especially with regards to intelligence.If Jon Snow was a pig, this argument might have some merit.Ramsay's mostly been interested in cutting human meat so the argument stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Fighting like a butcher could actually work to Ramsay's advantage. First, how many people in Westeros have ever fought a butcher before? Arya fought Hotpie but he was only a baker. Most knights and other swordsmen (or swordswenches) train in specific style of combat that has nothing to do with cutting actual meat. Butchers, however, make cutting things an art, and certainly know ways to best separate limbs from bodies. Therefore, Ramsay's butchering skills combined with his innate ferocity would make him more than a match for the lowly bastard.All of which is useless knowledge if their opponent is wearing armour, wielding a weapon, and has human intelligence.If Jon Snow was a pig, this argument might have some merit. Also, Roose likened Ramsay's fighting style to butcher to emphasize his lack of skill. This does nto imply that Ramsay has cut actual meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Thankfully, Ramsay has all three of these. Probably even more so than Jon does -- especially with regards to intelligence.What I mean is, Ramsay has little experience fighting people who have these.Jon does.Ramsay's mostly been interested in cutting human meat so the argument stands.Wait what?Are you saying because Ramsay likes to torture captives, he's going to be good in a fight against an armed and armoured opponent? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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